ADVICE SOUGHT:I just finished attending and recording a teabag-912 project meeting

This local "study group" has been meeting at the local library under the name "Liberty League". It's the 2nd meeting I've attended and it's based on the teachings for Earl Taylor and Skousen whom Glenn Beck is a follower.

I've been doing it in order to keep track of what's going on in my local community and have tried to softly make them think about the illegitimacy of their beliefs, and find common ground on certain beliefs, such as the importance of community and being a good neighbor.

However, I don't think I have the time and patience to stick with it and doubt I would be successful. Now I'm thinking of unmasking myself at the next meeting and directly challenging the teachings from, "The 5000 Year Leap: The Miracle That Changed the World". I'm also considering inviting some of my liberal friends to also attend the next meeting with me.

What's your opinion my fellow DUers?

On edit: I take back everything I said. These people are dangerous.

It could get ugly!

confront them, come with back-up. From what I've seen and heard over the past couple of days some of these people aren't interested in civil discourse.

I doubt you will be able to change any minds, so at least try to stay safe.

the gullible baggers will get fired up over our causes.They will realize how cold,wrong,mean, and harmful the RW is.

I'd like to hear more. What did you learn about their beliefs and direction?

This is from my previous post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6632446

This past week, there was a meeting at my local library of a group called "The Liberty League". There were about 12 attendees and the leader had some of the same sort of mannerisms as Glennn Beck. They all seemed to be very benign, pleasant people, but I think it's because they didn't know they had an spy in there midst.

The program was about W. Cleon Skousen's book, "The 5,000 Year Leap".

It "explains" how the founding of our nation brought about an incredible acceleration of human advancement that took us from plowing fields with sticks to landing on the moon.

Most of the time was spent watching a video with Dr. Earl Taylor who talked about how Skousen condensed the principles of the founding fathers into "28 Principles of Liberty".

These "principles" are the foundation of good government. Every piece of legislation should be in line with these principles, or it's a bad idea.

I recorded most of the meeting with my digital voice recorder, and plan to attend and record more meetings. I want to understand why/how people believe the crap that they do.

There was alot of "frames" employed throughout the program and I hope to insert/challenge those frames with progressive ones.

Some further reading/watching:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU6rAjoB8IA
Dr. Earl Taylor vid

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/09/16/beck_skous...
Meet the man who changed Glenn Beck's life
Cleon Skousen was a right-wing crank whom even conservatives despised. Then Beck discovered him


http://www.theamericanparty.org/index.php/the-news/142-...

The following is a brief overview of the principles found in The 5,000 Year Leap, and one chapter is devoted to each of these 28 principles.

Principle 1 - The only reliable basis for sound government and just human relations is Natural Law.

Natural law is God's law. There are certain laws which govern the entire universe, and just as Thomas Jefferson said in the Declaration of Independence, there are laws which govern in the affairs of men which are "the laws of nature and of nature's God."

Principle 2 - A free people cannot survive under a republican constitution unless they remain virtuous and morally strong.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Benjamin Franklin

Principle 3 - The most promising method of securing a virtuous people is to elect virtuous leaders.

"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. He therefore is the truest friend to the liberty of his country who tries most to promote its virtue, and who ... will not suffer a man to be chosen into any office of power and trust who is not a wise and virtuous man." - Samuel Adams

Principle 4 - Without religion the government of a free people cannot be maintained.

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports.... And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion." - George Washington

Principle 5 - All things were created by God, therefore upon him all mankind are equally dependent, and to him they are equally responsible .

The American Founding Fathers considered the existence of the Creator as the most fundamental premise underlying all self-evident truth. They felt a person who boasted he or she was an atheist had just simply failed to apply his or her divine capacity for reason and observation.

Principle 6 - All mankind were created equal.

The Founders knew that in these three ways, all mankind are theoretically treated as:

1. Equal before God.
2. Equal before the law.
3. Equal in their rights.

Principle 7 - The proper role of government is to protect equal rights, not provide equal things.

The Founders recognized that the people cannot delegate to their government any power except that which they have the lawful right to exercise themselves.

Principle 8 - Mankind are endowed by God with certain unalienable rights.

"Those rights, then, which God and nature have established, and are therefore called natural rights, such as are life and liberty, need not the aid of human laws to be more effectually invested in every man than they are; neither do they receive any additional strength when declared by the municipal laws to be inviolable. On the contrary, no human legislation has power to abridge or destroy them, unless the owner shall himself commit some act that amounts to a forfeiture." - William Blackstone

Principle 9 - To protect human rights, God has revealed a code of divine law.

"The doctrines thus delivered we call the revealed or divine law, and they are to be found only in the Holy Scriptures. These precepts, when revealed, are found by comparison to be really a part of the original law of nature, as they tend in all their consequences to man's felicity." - William Blackstone

Principle 10 - The God-given right to govern is vested in the sovereign authority of the whole people.

"The fabric of American empire ought to rest on the solid basis of the consent of the people. The streams of national power ought to flow immediately from that pure, original fountain of all legislative authority." - Alexander Hamilton

Principle 11 - The majority of the people may alter or abolish a government which has become tyrannical.

"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes ... but when a long train of abuses and usurpations ... evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security." - Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence

Principle 12 - The United States of America shall be a republic.

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
And to the republic for which it stands...."

Principle 13 - A Constitution should protect the people from the frailties of their rulers.

"If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary.... you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself." - James Madison

Principle 14 - Life and liberty are secure only so long as the rights of property are secure .

John Locke reasoned that God gave the earth and everything in it to the whole human family as a gift. Therefore the land, the sea, the acorns in the forest, the deer feeding in the meadow belong to everyone "in common." However, the moment someone takes the trouble to change something from its original state of nature, that person has added his ingenuity or labor to make that change. Herein lies the secret to the origin of "property rights."

Principle 15 - The highest level of prosperity occurs when there is a free-market economy and a minimum of government regulations.

Prosperity depends upon a climate of wholesome stimulation with four basic freedoms in operation:

1. The Freedom to try.
2. The Freedom to buy.
3. The Freedom to sell.
4. The Freedom to fail.

Principle 16 - The government should be separated into three branches .

"I call you to witness that I was the first member of the Congress who ventured to come out in public, as I did in January 1776, in my Thoughts on Government ... in favor of a government with three branches and an independent judiciary. This pamphlet, you know, was very unpopular. No man appeared in public to support it but yourself." - John Adams

Principle 17 - A system of checks and balances should be adopted to prevent the abuse of power by the different branches of government.

"It will not be denied that power is of an encroaching nature and that it ought to be effectually restrained from passing the limits assigned to it." - James Madison

Principle 18 - The unalienable rights of the people are most likely to be preserved if the principles of government are set forth in a written Constitution.

The structure of the American system is set forth in the Constitution of the United States and the only weaknesses which have appeared are those which were allowed to creep in despite the Constitution.

Principle 19 - Only limited and carefully defined powers should be delegated to government, all others being retained by the people.

The Tenth Amendment is the most widely violated provision of the bill of rights. If it had been respected and enforced America would be an amazingly different country than it is today. This amendment provides:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Principle 20 - Efficiency and dispatch require that the government operate according to the will of the majority, but constitutional provisions must be made to protect the rights of the minority.

"Every man, by consenting with others to make one body politic under one government, puts himself under an obligation to every one of that society to submit to the determination of the majority, and to be concluded by it." - John Locke

Principle 21 - Strong local self-government is the keystone to preserving human freedom.

"The way to have good and safe government is not to trust it all to one, but to divide it among the many, distributing to every one exactly the functions he is competent . - Thomas Jefferson

Principle 22 - A free people should be governed by law and not by the whims of men.

"The end of law is not to abolish or restrain, but to preserve and enlarge freedom. For in all the states of created beings, capable of laws, where there is no law there is no freedom. For liberty is to be free from restraint and violence of others, which cannot be where there is no law." - John Locke

Principle 23 - A free society cannot survive as a republic without a broad program of general education.

"They made an early provision by law that every town consisting of so many families should be always furnished with a grammar school. They made it a crime for such a town to be destitute of a grammar schoolmaster for a few months, and subjected it to a heavy penalty. So that the education of all ranks of people was made the care and expense of the public, in a manner that I believe has been unknown to any other people, ancient or modern. The consequences of these establishments we see and feel every day . A native of America who cannot read and write is as rare ... as a comet or an earthquake." John Adams

Principle 24 - A free people will not survive unless they stay strong.

"To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace." - George Washington

Principle 25 - "Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations -- entangling alliances with none."- Thomas Jefferson, given in his first inaugural address.

Principle 26 - The core unit which determines the strength of any society is the family; therefore the government should foster and protect its integrity.

"There is certainly no country in the world where the tie of marriage is more respected than in America, or where conjugal happiness is more highly or worthily appreciated." Alexis de Tocqueville

Principle 27 - The burden of debt is as destructive to human freedom as subjugation by conquest.

"We are bound to defray expenses within our own time, and are unauthorized to burden posterity with them.... We shall all consider ourselves morally bound to pay them ourselves and consequently within the life of the majority." - Thomas Jefferson

Principle 28 - The United States has a manifest destiny to eventually become a glorious example of God's law under a restored Constitution that will inspire the entire human race.

The Founders sensed from the very beginning that they were on a divine mission. Their great disappointment was that it didn't all come to pass in their day, but they knew that someday it would. John Adams wrote:

"I always consider the settlement of America with reverence and wonder, as the opening of a grand scene and design in Providence for the illumination of the ignorant, and the emancipation of the slavish part of mankind all over the earth."

Principle 7 - The proper role of government is to protect equal rights, not provide equal things.

It covered a lesson about redistributing wealth. How you steal a car from a neighbor that has 2 cars, but barely uses the 2nd car and your other neighbor who really needs a 2nd car. You steal it because you're compassionate.

"Creator" doesn't mean their God. And, how many times is "God" actually stated in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. It also looks like they love predatory capitalism. Reminds me of a T-shirt I saw "Eat tainted meat, drink poisoned water-vote Republican." So, people who are in dire straits, it seems, must depend on the benevolence of others-and it looks like these "others" are more into themselves. So, will we be seeing more bake sales to help the needy and infirmed? Or will it be a complete theocracy--all of the true believers will get help from the church? Geez, no wonder the corporations love this group.

So, these are the religious right zealots that now have a name "teabaggers." Thomas Jefferson is rolling in his grave.

pure, unmitigated cow crap.

Omnipotent Sky Spooks, "TEH FREE MARKETZ", Manifest Bulldozing, it's all there in black and white. Yeah, THESE assholes are ones to talk about "rule of law". Does it say anything in there about starting costly occupations based on lies because "GAWD told us to do it!" And "equal rights" . .. except for anyone who isn't white, straight and male.

Other than to be purposefully confrontational why do such a thing? Are you under the illusion that you are going to somehow change their minds after you basically admit to them that you have been a fraud and a liar the entire time? Pretending to be someone your not to infiltrate their group to satisfy you own curiosity (nosy) about "what's going on in my local community".

While you obviously disagree with these people politically it is perfectly legit to disagree with you on issues confronting our country. What would you feel about a right wing person doing the same thing to a group of war protesters or HCR supporters? Should atheist pretend to believe in God so they can go to church a few time the "unmask" themselves to the congregation and call them all idiots? What good would you expect to come out of this?

At the time I'm typing this post, the worst thing you have said about them is they are against bank bailouts and regulations. oooohhhhhhh scary stuff. C'mon, if we are so insecure about our own beliefs that we have to lie to others to infiltrate their groups then we aren't doing something right.

You know when people do that on the DU they are labeled trolls, generally considered a-holes, and tossed out.

Thanks for addressing the post!!! oh wait a minute.......

I am not here to disrupt. I am not here pretending to be something I'm not. I'm not here for the purpose to "unmask" myself in some vain attempt to prove to everyone on the DU how wrong they are.

Do I disagree with some here politically? I sure hope so. If there were no disagreement this would be a pretty boring board.

But what you are doing is just simply dishonest. When you stoop to such means in political and social discourse you give up the higher ground.

Why not just approach someone in the group and talk to them? I have conversations with those who differ with me all of the time. Rarely has it ever turned into a real mean spirited argument and it has never turn violent.

Are you proud of your deception? You fooled those who took you at your word that your were being truthful. That's not something to be proud of and doesn't reflect well on those who agree with you.

I may only have 56 or so post, but I've been on this board for quite a while. I have a business to run and kids to raise, I don't have the luxury of a lot of spare time. It will be years and years before I ever reach your level of post. That of course doesn't not make my points any less valid.

and Im not using that in any flippant way.
I did the same thing years ago with other subversive right wing groups. I learned more than I wanted to know. I also nearly got shot. I had to stop an arson at my home (this was while I was not watching the kkkreestians just was victimized by the queer haters who did not like that I had diverse friends), if not for the fact that I had one of those premonitions I would not have had a 112g behind the front door which I used to run them off with before they got the cross burning well. I got no help from the police..jsut a ticket and was told 'faggots have no rights here'.

I m not here to justify myself, but have attended kkk meetings, church of gawd dominionist and white supremacists meetings. I found out that my relatives that surivived the holocaust and told me things that these groups all follow similar tactics and policies, they share a lot of delusions, dangerous delustions.

You aren't suggesting we disobey the bible, are you?

I haven't looked at a bible since I was 8 years old. You obviously follow it closer than I do.

It helps to know biblical stuff so you can use it to counter christofascist nonsense.

Most everyone has an anonymous screen name. It's the norm. It's acceptable. It's not an act of deliberate deception. It's expected.

Noe of those qualities carry over into the actions of OP.

So I really don't get your point.

Also, some of their beliefs blur the division of church and state. I don't want to live in a damn theocracy. And, I don't believe in deregulation--look where it's gotten us today--nor do I believe in war profiteering or lying us into wars. And, there's nothing wrong for an atheist to attend a church--at least the minister would be happy to debate the belief of God to an atheist. Like I said, no wonder the corporations love these guys. "Libertarianism"-of course the people think it's some form of liberty for themselves--but for corporations it's just more predatory practices with no rules.

Those who need help, who are sick, who are poor--it looks like they can just die or take their chances on the benevolence of people like the teabaggers. So, people have to beg if they are in trouble and hope that others will have compassion and help them?

And, I guess we don't need no stinking regulations on safety, or food inspection--if enough people die, maybe the company will go bankrupt.

I question the bank bailouts, but the regulations have already been stripped by previous presidents, that's why we are in our predicament today--so they apparently don't have to worry about regulations getting in the way of big, greedy, corrupt corporate monsters.

I see nothing wrong with attending a meeting to see what they are really about. I don't know if I'd attend another one, however, seeing as they look like the same bigoted religious zealots that have been bleating for quite some time.

You don't further those beliefs by pretending to be someone else in order to be accepted by the group, only to later "unmask" yourself in order to cause disruption. You don't lie and act fraudulently in order to change the minds of others.

It is perfectly acceptable for an atheist to attend church. It's not acceptable for an atheist to pretend to be a bible thumping believer with the intent to infiltrate the church so they can keep an eye on what the church is up to and to cause disruption by unmasking themselves later. One approach is open and honest, the other is deceitful and disgraceful.

One is something the FBI did in the 60's with peace groups and the Black Panthers, the other approach is something Dr. King did. Which side would you want to be on?

on peace organizations who were against his lying war hard on. Little grannies with baked goods meeting at homes to discuss peace activities--and they were monitoring those meetings. I'd say, groups that actually believe in peace and not harming others are more of a threat to the government, it seems, than people talking and behaving like bullies, some with guns. Now why is that?

Some on *'s no fly list, included green party members, quakers and peace activists--they must be more of a threat to a pro-corporate warmonger's agenda than these teabaggers.

Know your enemy - and be able to prove their identity. And the longer you can be discreet about it, the better a mole you'll be. And the more evidence you'll compile.

It almost surely will be vandalized. That's how these cowardly Teabaggers are.

I have reached the age and level of health where I cannot do this anymore. I have looked into a variety of groups and see my other post. Don't let anyone make you believe you are being dishonest as much as looking out for the rest of us..you may want to take notes and contact a police detective and tell them what you have learned..just make sure they are not 'oath keepers(breakers!).

they could've offered amendments for days and fought to the bitter end! That the GOP is weak and we need our OWN candidates to defeat the evil communistic democrats!

It was founded by the DuPonts as an anti-New Deal front group for corporate oligarchs but was also tied in with the attempted coup against Franklin Roosevelt -- the one foiled by Smedley Butler. Given how little the Tea Partiers know of actual history, I'd hesitate to suggest there's a deliberate association -- but the similarities to the beliefs and agenda of today's Tea Partiers are disturbing enough that I'd also hesitate to rule it out.

http://www.ctka.net/pr399-fdr.html

Butler was still unconvinced that there was a real plot; however, MacGuire made some starling predictions. He predicted there would be an announcement in the press about the formation of a new organization, the American Liberty League. The American Liberty League, funded by the DuPonts, was to complement the coup by functioning as a propaganda organ to discredit the overthrown Roosevelt in the public’s mind. . . .

Although the coup never materialized, the unrelenting propaganda attack against Roosevelt and the New Deal reforms continued, spearheaded by the American Liberty League. The League listed as its main contributors the DuPont family, representatives of the Morgan interests, Robert Sterling Clark, the Pew Family (Sun Oil), and Rockefeller Associates. Its Treasurer was Grayson M.P. Murphy, MacGuire’s immediate boss. The League itself was ostensibly dedicated to the virtues of the Constitution, individual freedom and free market capitalism. But it claimed that all New Deal reforms were inspired by Communists within the Roosevelt administration. In the election of 1936, the League spent twice as much money as the Republican Party in trying to defeat Roosevelt. Although the League disbanded after Roosevelt won his second term, it spawned a series of extreme right-wing groups and paramilitary bands which constituted a network that endured through the 1960s, and whose descendants are with us today. Their propaganda was anti-Communist and anti-Semitic; their tactic was violence. Some groups which the League financed were the Sentinels of the Republic (which labeled the New Deal "Jewish Communism"), the Minutemen and the Minutewomen. Another group, the Southern Committee to Uphold the Constitution, was associated with the Silver Shirt Squad of the American Storm Troopers. The goals of this organization, headed by a Texas oil magnate, were to create a mass movement of whites in the South to dilute Roosevelt’s Dixie vote, and to stir up anti-black racism in order to attack organizing drives by the unions from the North. . . .

The main function of these hate groups was to enforce the will of right-wing corporate America, seeking to regain the political power it lost in the 1932 election. On the grassroots level, this intention translated into supporting the efforts of management to stop workers from unionizing. The most glaring example of this is the struggle at the General Motors plants (General Motors was owned by the DuPonts). The DuPonts employed the Black Legion, a sort of Northern Klux Klux Klan, which would terrorize workers, bomb union halls, and torture and murder organizers. The Legion was organized into arson squads, execution squads, and anti-Communist squads. Discipline within its own ranks was maintained with the weapons of torture or death and was strictly enforced. The LaFollette Committee found that the Legion had penetrated police departments, high government offices, and the Michigan Republican Party.

I knew industrialists like the Duponts were pro-fascist. Hmmm, another right wing pro-corporate group with backing by some repukes and businesses. They never give up, do they?

and use your time to volunteer for something you believe in and yes take your friends with to volunteer too

So express yourself and make your voice heard. If they turn you away it shows their hypocrisy and inability to accept ideas other than their own.

ask my liberal friends to attend the meetings and engage them in civil debate.

If nothing else, I hope it sours them on the idea of meeting at my socialist library. They've been using it as a recruiting tool as the meetings have to be open to the public and they get to put their name on the sign directing people to the meeting room.