Are we seeing the first politically GENIUS president ?

Obama , never ceases to impress ....

I can't wait for what will he patiently accomplish next, regardless of some misgivings about his pragmatist centrism.

n/t

Any other presidency probably would have been crushed by the health care debacle he suffered in his first term. Not to mention how he governed with a Repub controlled congress that launched investigation after investigation and tried to impeach him.

Yet, he recovered from the HC debacle, got some very good things accomplished despite a Repub congress and constant investigation and maintained very solid approvals. If it weren't for term limits he would have been re-elected easily.

he was lucky that he ran in 1992, when any Democrat would have won against a President at 33%. It really was not that brilliant a campaign - it was a rollercoaster ride, fearing the net shoe dropping.

He again was very lucky that it was Dole's "turn" Dole was at that point mostly known as a GOP hatchetman and he ran an extremely bad campaign.

Another measure is what he did in 2007/2008. Hillary started with the party and the media. It was Bill's actions that really hurt her before South Carolina and SuperTuesday. You either have to assume he didn't want her to win or question if he was that good a politician.

Now, what I think Clinton was expert at was in directly convincing the media and people hearing him directly when he lobbied for a course of action. He is brilliant and very persuasive. That, rather than being a genius politician, are the strengths I see.

"..what I think Clinton was expert at was in directly convincing the media and people hearing him directly when he lobbied for a course of action."

That is at the very core of politics, and he was a master at it.

In terms of strategy or maybe the disciple to fall the strategy you feel will work is where I think he is at best above the average top level politicians - mainly because of what I saw in 2008.

I purposely wrote that sentence to be fair and because I think it is true. I think that ability in addition to being one part of being good at politics is something that help in many other professions - whether it is being a trial lawyer, an actor, a religious leader, an advocate. That skill is also independent of whether what they are saying is honest or factual. This was John Edwards only great strength. Both would great at "seducing" segments of the media. IMO, this was Clinton's strongest ability too, but he had far more intelligence and knowledge of the political playing field and planning skills. Edwards is an example of where just that ability, no matter how good, is not sufficient to make someone a political genius.

But, I think Clinton's political skill, which was outstanding in getting himself elected, was far less good in pushing a legislative agenda. Where I see Obama as better is the way that when one thing didn't work, they zigged and zagged to get things a bit further - until they finally won. Clinton pushed harder and faster at the very beginning of his and Hillary's effort, but when it met a brick wall - they essentially refused to sign on to any different approach. Here, Obama came out and put his credibility on the line several times earlier this year when HCR was called completely dead.

Looking back, I think Clinton to some degree ceded many issues to the Republicans after they took over the House and Senate. There are few issues where you can point to Clinton stopping anything we didn't want or getting a program we wanted through. The only one I can think of is SCHIP, where Kennedy was the one who made it happen - and Hillary is credited with getting Bill to allow it to be part of the budget.

And if I'm reading my history right, it took FDR a little while to warm to the task, too.

If the Republicans had the majority, I may call it genius.

Also against massive Republican opposition. Everybody, but Snowe and Collins wasn't it?

I don't know about genius (the jury still out IMO), but one thing BHO IS is tenacious. BTW, he is and always has been a centrist in spite of lefty hopes and righty fears. If we move the rest of the country and Congress to the left, Barry will move left, but not until then.

And had "progressives" applaud it..

That takes real genius.

:cry:

Republicans hate it and the Democrats love it.

To me, that is fucking astonishing.

"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."..

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

"Unfortunately he's not very experienced", but that was a LONG time ago. :)

Obama has restored my faith in humanity, no easy feat in the context of eight years of Bush and the teabagger freakout.

think about it!

But so far there are moves he's made that have impressed me a lot. I'm not so sure about the results in real world benefits, but he's been breaking the mold a bit and getting results politically which is very important in the game of perception. The televised question and answer session with the Republicans was brilliant for example.

otherwise, it's just corporatism.

Obama is a company man. The fact that there are people that believe Obama is on their side and not the corporations', despite all evidence to the contrary, I suppose could be considered political genius.

to drown out the doubters. GO OBAMA!!! GO HUBRIS! BEST PRESIDENT EVAR!

it's just corporatism

The problem is that the history classes we take in high school will talk about what was accomplished under this or that administration, but little of the maneuvering that made it happen. The result is that even people who spend a lot of time on a political message board won't understand what goes in to getting things done politically and get confused by it, and even aggressively attack it. I get this mixed feeling of bemusement and fear by all these people who say things like "I'm sick of playing chess!"

it's a game of poker (imperfect information)

reagan and the two bushes didn't have two brain cells to rub together so of course they didn't play but some of the best and the brightest on either side of the aisle -- including FDR, eisenhower, nixon, lbj, and now obama -- were/are students of the game

in a nuclear age, where game theory is a core part of understanding how to prevent devastating war, poker is almost a prerequisite for the presidency

chess is the art of war (or politics) only in some imagined war where everyone involved can see all the players and exactly where they stand

that is why, to the chess player, some of obama's "moves" can be so surprising

With what was given to him when he took office what he has done is nothing short of miraculous.

Don

no one can fuck up a country like he has done and get away with it.

continue the Bush drawdown unchanged and escalate in afghanstan. So we can chase 100 al quaeda. At the cost of a million dollars per soldier per year, for hundreds of thousands of soldiers.
Pure strategic genius is what that is.

Why dont we just make dollar bill bonfires. To quote Rahm Emmanuel, "Fucking retarded".

Fucking Retarded indeed. Fucking Developmentally Disabled even.

Nixon was a worthy fucking adversary though......

That doesn't sound like a genius to me. Political or otherwise.

Don

nixon started w. nothing, played poker in the service to get money to start his political campaigns, and whatever you might think of him -- and i don't think much of the evil bastard -- he got further from that grocery store in whittier, california that you or i could have gotten

the fact that genius even EVIL genius can do stupid things out of hubris does not extinguish the genius

to pretend that nixon wasn't brilliant -- in fact, he was the last of the brilliant republican presidents, after that, they decided they'd stick w. stupid-ass figureheads they could control -- is a waste of time and a re-write of history

and always 10 steps ahead of the rest of us.
I guess thats why it's called leadership. ;)

I think he's very smart, and very savy.

in fact several of our presidents have been genius level intelligence -- we forget this because so much of recent history has been dominated by the brain dead bushes and ronald reagan, who were deliberately chosen as figureheads for their party, a brain is of no use in a figurehead, it makes him ornery and hard to handle -- see under richard nixon if you have any questions about that

this is not to diminish obama's achievement, which is huge, but i'm not yet convinced he is more of a political genius than say lbj who also achieved great things on the domestic front (whilst becoming mired in an ugly and unwinnable war) -- in fact there may turn out to be many parallels between the two men, tho it's early days yet for obama

interesting times

we've had many and many genuis presidents in our 200-yr plus history tho

..on the DLC Hit List, though they are now calling it "Entitlement Reform".

So far, he is batting a Thousand:

The DLC Dream List....Mission Accomplished!
And ALL this in less than a year!!!

Next Up...Social Security "Reform".

I can't wait!!
:patriot: