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The spitting incident at the march: my letter to the NYT reporter

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 11:15 AM
Original message
The spitting incident at the march: my letter to the NYT reporter
Ian, Thank you for your story about our march on the capitol on Saturday.

Interestingly, while I was marching along the north side of the capitol, I was approached by a young woman who claimed to be a reporter for the NY Times working with you on the story. She interviewed my friend David Quinly and he was quoted in your story.

Then she turned to me and told me she had seen a protester spit on a soldier and asked for my comment. I told her I didn't believe that, and she repeated that she had seen this happen. I told her the peace movement is more supportive of the troops than anyone who supports this war, because we want our troops to come home, while those who support the war are advocating sending them into harm's way. So I really could not believe that anyone who opposed the war had spit on a soldier. My comments were not included in your story.

I was upset when I read your story the next day to see this was an "alleged" incident and the protester had supposedly spit on the ground in front of the soldier (which is quite different from spitting ON this soldier). In other words, what was related in your story was not at all what that reporter had told me. So she either lied to me or your story is false.

When I got back home, I did a little research that apparently you did not do and found out some interesting things about this soldier who claims he was spit on. He also claims to have received a death threat in the mail while he was in Walter Reed Hospital and he claims he was mistreated in an airport when he returned from Iraq.

He has been celebrated on Michelle Malkin's website and was a guest on Sean Hannity's show.

Now I am just a teacher and not a reporter but I hope you are wondering what I am wondering - what are the odds that a soldier who received a death threat also happened to get spit on at that march?? Adding in the fact that your assistant who interviewed me either lied to me or misrepresented the facts in your story, I now do not believe that this spitting incident happened at all.

Ian, the NY Times needs to print a retraction. I will wait for a reply from you and if I don't hear back I will contact your editor. The blogs are already on this story and it doesn't look like it will go away without a retraction in your paper.

Here are some links I found that support what I have told you in this email.

http://www.michellemalkin.com/archives/004021.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Sparling
(I know Wikipedia is not a great source, but there is a good summary here of the claims Joshua has made about being mistreated)


And here is what comes up on Google for Joshua Sparling:
http://www.google.com/search?q=joshua+sparling%27&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Feel free to call me if you want to discuss this. And thanks again for the story.

Peace!!
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. Excellent letter
Thanks for not dropping this incident or they will end up rewriting history in their last lame attempt to turn the country against anti war activists like they did during VN.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I told the reporter that the spitting on Vietnam vets did not happen,
that was just an urban legend. And she agreed!

But she told me THREE TIMES she had seen this.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
15. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. I know
Has he seen Sir No Sir??
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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I don't know but thanks,I need to see it myself.
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-31-07 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
79. My friend's dad returned to D.C. from Vietnam...
...in 1972 and was verbally abused by anti-war protesters. He wasn't spit on, but he was called a baby killer, a murderer, etc. Whether or not spitting on soldiers took place, there was plenty of abuse heaped on returning Vietnam vets.

Our returning troops need a lot of care and kindness to bring them out of the living hell that BushCo has thrust them into. Thankfully, DU and the Democratic community give a damn. I only wish people had been a little smarter 30 years ago.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-31-07 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #79
82. I view such accounts with a great deal of skepticism
Such an account would wholly serve the purpose of the RW. It is perfectly crafted for the war party.
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-31-07 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #82
89. I do too.
However, this comes from an Air Force veteran who did two tours in Vietnam. He's a lifelong Democrat who can't even talk about Bush without cussing...and he's not one to cuss.

I know other vets who were similarly abused. One quit wearing his uniform in public. Spitting aside, the ill treatment of Vietnam-era veterans - however occasional - is no myth. If that were so, why is there a federal law against discriminating against them? (http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/statutes/ofccp/4212.htm)

Dissing veterans probably isn't that unusual. My dad was WWII vet. When he came home in 1945 there were signs on the lawns of many rental properties that read, "NO GIs". Anecdotal, I know, but I don't have ready access to good sources for that era.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-31-07 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #89
90. One second-hand account from the internet is all the indication I have of harassment of soldiers
...returning from Vietnam. I have looked, briefly, for more accounts but never found them.

Interesting that you had that url citation of a federal law ready to post.
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-31-07 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #90
96. WTF are you driving at?
Are you accusing me of RW bias? I really fucking want to know.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-02-07 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #96
99. Go find some credible citations and get back to me...eom
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VOX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-31-07 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #89
94. There is no documented evidence of any spitting on Vietnam-era soldiers...
The scenario -- which has all the earmarks of urban legend -- is usually described thus: An American G.I., upon returning from Vietnam and still in uniform, is spat upon in an airport, or at a bus terminal, or on a bus. Often, the mythical spitter is a woman -- a mother, grandmother, or young hippie girl. Verbal taunts usually include the term "baby killer." The offended soldier just silently endures his mistreatment and moves on.

There is no record of any such assault crimes on the logs of airport security, law enforcement agencies, or any news-reporting entities. If any spitting or assault incidents had really occurred, it would make sense that there would be some documentation from the era.

The sad truth is that it was the U.S. government that figuratively spat on returning Vietnam-era G.I.s, by denying them the medical treatment they needed upon returning home, and by cutting their benefits. There is no question that these vets were discriminated against, particularly as the law applies to disabled vets. It was an era of cost-cutting and recession (thanks to eight years of Nixon-Ford), and Vietnam-era G.I.s bore the brunt of that as they tried to re-enter the workforce.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0318-12.htm
Published on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 by the Cleveland Free Times
Myth Making and Spitting Images from Vietnam
by Patrick G. Coy
<snip>
More important, however, is that the charge is simply not rooted in reality. It is both unfair to Senator Kerry and to the Vietnam-era peace movement. The fact is, there is absolutely no record of any peace activist taunting or spitting upon returning veterans. It is myth, and like most myths it is hard to dislodge.

In 1995 sociologist Thomas Beamish and his colleagues analyzed all peace movement-related stories from 1965 - 1971 in the NY Times, LA Times, and SF Chronicle (495 stories). They found no instance of any spitting on returned troops by peace movement members, nor any taunting. Indeed, they found few examples of negative demonstrations involving returning troops of any kind, or even of simple disapproval of returning soldiers. Three years later, sociologist Jerry Lembcke conducted a similarly exhaustive study for his book, "The Spitting Image," with like results. He discovered war protesters being spat upon by war supporters, and hostile acts toward Vietnam veterans by conservative, pro-war groups like the VFW, but no taunting or spitting on returned veterans by peace movement members. Returned veterans and in-service GIs were welcomed in the peace movement, and many assumed leadership roles. Yet the myth endures.

Cultural myths are often created in a collective fashion over time, as such they represent widely shared values in the group. But myth making is seldom divorced from the politics and power struggles that are always present in society. That is, some myths are created or perpetuated to serve the particular political interests of subgroups. Similarly, some general cultural myths may be reconstructed to serve special interests at the expense of the common good. Myths also help us deal with events that don't fit our world-view. How could a superpower be defeated by a small, "primitive" country? The spitting myth helps redirect that responsibility to an unsupportive peace movement at home.

The Vietnam era peace movement directed its displeasure at policy makers, not at the soldiers. Yet the Gulf War and Iraq War peace movements have each had to defend against mythological charges that peace activism means they don't support the troops, or that they will soon by spitting on them. In fact, by opposing an unjustified war, today's peace movement has demonstrated its high regard for the women and men whose lives are forever changed - or lost - by political leaders too willing to go to war.
<snip>

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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-31-07 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #94
97. It was primarily the govt. that shafted the vets.
BushCo's Pentagon has become an expert at screwing returning soldiers.

I think what this debate needs is a little help from DU vets. I believe I'll start a thread and ask that they share their own experiences. It's not a big sample and surely won't be definitive, but it will probably be interesting.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-31-07 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #3
85. Anyone who spit
on me when I returned from Vietnam wouldn't be around to talk about it, and I'm about the same as most vets returning from Vietnam. Besides that, we all landed at military sites like Air Force bases.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-31-07 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #85
93. Nonsense.
Edited on Wed Jan-31-07 02:21 PM by TahitiNut
In November, 1969, I came back through Travis, bussed to Oakland Army Base, out-processed and wrapped in Class-A's to make my way to SFO. Got a ride from OAB to SFO in (believe it or not) a VW flower-power minivan, driven by the girlfriend of the guy I sat next to on the MAC flight. Both had parents that taught at Berzerkley. 'Liberals' to say the least. BIG anti-war - and HE KNEW. Like I did. Dropped at SFO, I went to the counter to get boarding pass for Mil Standby. Flight was leaving soon. Hustled out the concourse toward gate and passed group of 3-4 coming in other direction. Spat at. After a year getting shot at and on my way 'home' to Detroit from SFO, the last thing I wanted was another delay. I was warned in Nam and at OAB - get in a fight and you'll be smeared as a 'killer.'

When people who claim to be Viet Nam veterans say what you've said, I have to wonder how they could be so ignorant of the typical Army draftee "early out" experience. We were on our own after leaving OAB. We had to wear greens to fly Mil Standby. No choice. After living a Short-timer's Calendar for a year and peeling off another number every day, the LAST thing I wanted was trouble. Are you telling me that after being shot at and rocketed by VC for a year you'd react at spittle that way? Nonsense. Deeply disturbing? Sure. Very much so. But it didn't cause guys to LOSE BODY PARTS. (Jeezus!)

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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-31-07 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #93
95. To say I was a bit on edge
Edited on Wed Jan-31-07 04:46 PM by The Wizard
immediately after the Tet Offensive would be an understatement. I was raging inside and got into several fights shortly after returning, and for much less than spitting.
As for your "nonsense" and "ignorant" remarks and doubts about my service in Vietnam, please refrain from casting aspersions.
I took off my uniform and got on a bus for home, and didn't see any anti war protesters. If I had seen them I would have joined them.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
2. That's a great letter and nicely researched
:applause:


Why, you ought to be a journalist! :)

I thought the comments from the "reporter" were bullshit from the moment go.

Guess that makes me a "blind partisan" to some! Huh Mr. TH? :sarcasm:
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. thanks
I have written more than a few letters to reporters over the years. :evilgrin:
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
28. there is another possibility. The whole alledged spitting
incidenct may have been staged for the reporter.

She may have seen an event. But who was the alleged spitter?

Was he a conferate of the professional victim?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. That's what I am thinking too
but she thinks it was genuine.

I sure wish we could hear from someone who actually witnessed this.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. Did the reporter get the alleged spitters name? Plus, it seems a little too
Edited on Tue Jan-30-07 12:41 PM by John Q. Citizen
convenient that she just happened to be right where the action was at the perfect time. Not to mention, the soldiers appears to be a proffesional victim of anti-war attacksd, lol.

It stinks bad.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Wow I didn't think to ask that
good question
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. Also, do we know the "alledged" (heh, heh,) reporters name?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. It is
Sarah Abruzzese
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. Googleing her name, it appears she works for the WaPo. I didn't know they collaborate
with their competition, The NYT.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Yes they do
at least that's what I was told.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. That's a little bit troubling in itself. What ever happened to scooping the competition?
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jtrockville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #50
64. In the corporate-owned entertainment-as-news US media biz, I have to ask...
what is this "competition" you speak of?
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #64
68. It was a quaint remnant of days gone by. I still remember Jimmy Olsen rushing
to phone in his "scoop" to Perry White.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-02-07 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #28
101. if it happened, it was these guys at the pathetic freeper counter-protest
according to the freepers, these guys are soldiers from Walter Reed, but since none of them are in uniform you would never know it, nor would the alleged spitter. Also, we were not allowed within 20 feet of these brave young men so I don't see how it could have happened.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=62192
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
5. Very fine letter
And isn't it odd how a bunch of goom-bahs, armed with little more than a computer connection and five minutes, can find out so much more about the likes of Joshua Sparling than can a sprawling, multi-million dollar media empire with hundreds of reporters and thousands of sources?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. You calling me a goom-bah?
LOL I take it that's a good thing.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Just like me
I'm just some schlub sitting on the West Coast with a dial-up modem, and I know so much more about what's going on behind the reports thanks to the Google and the Internets. And the good work of other, more skilled schlubs than me.
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
73. It's as if they never heard of google, let alone
Lexis/Nexis. Or all their fingers are broken and they can't type or hit any links. :eyes:
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Jeanette in FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
7. Excellent letter
It will be so interesting to hear what he has to say. Excellent that you haven't let this incident go by the wayside.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. I am on the phone with him now
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
8. Effing reruns
This is the old old old Vietnam myth redux. I guess we are supposed to remember the "incident(s)" used to revile protesters in the 60's that were concerned similar high quality esteemed American journalism- or- urban myth- it can be useful.

Pathetic reruns for those who but the NYT plans of most of their readers being utterly stupid, selective, forgetful and pliable to tripe.

Time to revive more of the actual incidents a few protesters have used against the real villains the power establishment and its drooling dogs.

The pie in the kisser.
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klook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
10. Great work
This "peaceniks spitting on returning heroes" lie has been spread by right-wing chickenhawks ever since the Vietnam War era, at least. This was nicely exposed in the excellent documentary "Sir, No Sir!".
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
11. I can't believe they're trying the same stupid trick 35 years later!
How gullible they think people are?

...uh, forget I said that. :(
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MagickMuffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
13.  Thanks for writing this letter proud2Blib
It seems more and more we have to keep the media's feet to the fire. And then they don't understand why we don't need them for finding out information about the truth.

I remember when the internets were becoming so popular and the news media were freaking out about people taking on their turf and being misinformed:eyes:.

"People will be able to post anything they want on the internets and there will be no way to confirm whether or not it's a true story."

Well you know the exact same thing can be said about the reporters who write stories with unnamed sources, anonymous sources and other secret "deep throat" types.
I don't ever believe anything I read that maintains a secret identity of some one pushing their POV. Think about all the White House stories with unnamed sources, I can pretty much figure out who these faceless, nameless people are, and what their agenda is as well.

It sounds like the person you spoke with was just looking for sensationalism, and really not much more. You know they have to sell their rag somehow, and what a better way to accomplish that task with a little fabricated truths.


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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
14. "I did a little research that apparently you did not do ..."
:yourock:
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. LOL He just called me
He said he had received over 150 emails regarding his story.

And yes, the other reporter claims she actually saw the spitting.
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kohodog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. At least they spit on the right guy!
Actually I still don't believe it. The reporter is unlikley to recant and it's hard to prove she didn't see it. She has too much to lose if she admits she lied in the article.
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prole_for_peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. what if it was a set up?
what a coincidence that a reporter was right there.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. true
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sharp_stick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. She probably did see it.
My guess is that the soldier and the spitter were plants for Malkin or some other shrieiking RW hack. It's easy enough to do, the reporters for big papers are pretty recognizable after awhile and you just have them wait until the dupe... I mean reporter is looking over and then you do it.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. What simskl Said
I think you nailed it. I think this was the perfect set-up. Spitter and spittee wait for a reporter and then, bang, the infamous lugie!

Now, a NYT dupe has been fooled into believing that this same guy keeps getting picked on by anti-war folks.
The Professor
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. That is the oddest part of this whole story
A simple Google search turns up THREE incidents about this guy being a "victim" since he got home from Iraq. THREE!?!?!

Come on, no one is that unlucky.
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-31-07 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #34
92. Wasn't there some other "incident magnet" guy during the elections?
It's not the same guy, isn't it?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. I presesented that scenario
She is standing by her story.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. "standing by her story," the same way Judas Miller stood by her Curveball. n/t
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #32
57. Good letter, thanks for following up, ask them to make sure and publicize the coincidences
Make sure they state that this one guy, among the (however many) returning soldiers, has been so unlucky so many times when none of the others have experienced this.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. Yes I think they may be doing a little digging
Edited on Tue Jan-30-07 03:53 PM by proud2Blib
into Joshua's illustrious past.
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kohodog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-31-07 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #59
84. Too bad they didn't check prior to publishing the story.
I guess that's too much to expect these days. Seems like a follow up story is in order. Is the editor aware of this thread and Digby's comments?
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
69. If ONLY someone could nvent a device that reporters could use to show what's happening..
Edited on Tue Jan-30-07 06:34 PM by SoCalDem
They could call it a "picture box" or "image catcher" or somthing like that :eyes:
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #69
76. Yes, they could even put such a device on a small telephone! Perhaps it could EVEN capture MOVING
images!

NAAAAAAAH!

Jules Verne and H.G. Wells ain't got nothin' on me!
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-31-07 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #69
86. !
OMG :spray: Too early in the morning to gag on my coffee.

The story stinks; I think it was staged and the vet may need some therapy or counseling.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #14
58. Gee thanks SS
:)
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ariellyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
19. Very good job following up on this lie proud2blib. n/t
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
20. this is so STUPID!!
amazing. trying to animate a vietnam era urban legend. will the propaganda catapulting ever stop?
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
21. Kudos on an excellent letter
You must be an English teacher-a sound argument with citations, and a clearly worded request. A plus plus plus plus!!!!!!
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
35. No I teach special ed
but thanks anyway. Your praise is a tribute to my own teachers.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #35
60. I bow to your patience
I taught elementary school for 19 years, and then went into preschool for special needs children. You have my respect; it is very rewarding but can be very stressful to teach special education.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
23. Way to go, proud2belib!
Keep up the great work in setting the truth straight! :patriot:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
27. Well done!
K&R
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
31. Hi, proud2blib!
Sorry I missed meeting up with everyone march day. The Metro was crazy.

I didn't see ANY incidents of disrespect toward vets anywhere all day. Ridiculous for them to report that.

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Hey Hissy!
Glad we got to meet on Friday at least.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #33
45. I will be posting picture threads in a while. I took a buttload of pics.
Got shots of Sean Penn and Jane Fonda and didn't even realize it.

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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
38. Digby has written about this:
by digby

The Cincinnatti Beacon found that people are picking up the Joshua "Zelig" Sparling spitting story as proof of the terrible treatment of veterans. One is a Vietnam Vet who recovered memories of his own spitting incident back in the 70's. (The Beacon also found that his story doesn't exactly add up --- as usual.)

Even more interesting is that the Beacon coincidentally shot some footage of Sparling standing with the Freepers. If there was spit lobbed across the wide chasm between the two opposing groups, it was an award winning projectile gob, which makes this passage by the New York Times reporter especially suspicious:

Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back.



As I posted earlier, the Washington Post had what appears to be a slightly more accurate report of the incident (no spitting observed) and for some reason they scrubbed the passage from later versions of the story.

Joseph Hughes of the blog Hughes for America was at the march and came up close and personal with Sparling. He reported in my comments:

As someone who was at the CODEPINK event - here's my take on that and the march in general - and who saw Sparling up close and personal, I thought I'd weigh in. We were close to the front of the event because we were there early and my girlfriend wanted a good spot to take photos. Shortly after the event began, I noticed Sparling and his small group - himself, a woman wearing the same 82nd Airborne sweatshirt and another young man - push their way to the front. By the time they made their move, the crowd was packed pretty tight, so I don't see how they
could have made it so close (just to the left of the front) without some pushing.

When everyone would cheer a particular speaker, he first stood out by loudly booing. He would also give a thumbs down gesture to accompany those boos. One of the official speakers, a woman who formerly served in the armed forces, went over to him, and the two appeared to have a civil conversation. When a man who was taking pictures went over, Sparling appeared to be shouting in his face to move the camera. Later, when the female veteran spoke, she mentioned his service and our appreciation for it and there was a good round of applause. Nothing that would lead someone to characterize anyone as un-American.

I missed his impromptu speech because myself and my girlfriend were helping keep the CODEPINK protesters on the sidewalk as we marched to the full protest. That said, I sincerely doubt Sparling was treated with disrespect on our side of the street. (I didn't notice anyone on his side of the street barring a few curious folks who appeared to be taking pictures of the counter-protesters.) The worst I saw anyone from our side do in response to a counter-protester was throw up a fist or peace sign. When someone shouted, it wasn't profane. Now, on the other hand, Sparling's Freeper friends across the street had spent the better part of an hour holding up ridiculous signs like "Anti-American peaceniks think sedition is patriotic" and "We gave peace a chance. We got 9/11". Also, they hung an effigy of Jane Fonda.

These weren't friendly people. They were people looking to provoke a response. That they got it in the form of spitting, based on everything I saw Saturday, seems laughable on its face.

Before I even noticed Sparling's leg, I thought the kid was a right-wing plant in our group. I thought we were going to be marching, peacefully, and this kid would break a window or otherwise do something to make for an ugly scene, making what was actually a peaceful protest look anything but. It looked to me like he was taking great pains to stand out in what he was doing. For anyone to portray Sparling as an innocent actor in Saturday's events while making the CODEPINK attendees out to be a rabid mob boggles the mind. Our group was 90 percent women, including children and grandmothers. Half of the guys there didn't look like they could hurt a fly. I can safely say Sparling and his group showed up looking to start something, something
that, from the looks of your citations, appears to be a pattern.



I will repeat myself here, but it's important. I suspect that what's at work here is reflexive, lazy MSM he said/she said reporting where it was important to show "the other side" of the story of a peaceful protest. As usual, this lazy and inaccurate form of reporting worked to the benefit of the right, who in this case used a young man who is a celebrity rightwing victim of numerous alleged lefty slurs to tell a mythic story. I expect this from Fox News. It's a big problem when it's the paper of record.

But there's an even bigger problem. Dave Niewert and others have done a lot of writing over the past few years about rightwing eliminationist rhetoric and subterranean groups like militias and how their poison seeps into the mainstream. The mainstream media have failed to pick up on this pernicious social and political trend. Instead they are still mired in the stereotypes of 35 years ago, which we saw this week-end are pretty stooped and grey these days. They need to turn their attention to their right.

In this instance you had a budding rightwing operative who sat with the Vice President's wife at the State of the Union address appearing with a group that hanged Jane Fonda in effigy in the middle of a peaceful protest march. The signs they held were violent, crude and purposefully provocative. Yet the mainstream media, in looking for some frisson of 60's street violence, reports it as if the protesters are the provacateurs. They had the story and they completely missed it.

The fact is that the people who are challenging social norms and mainstream behavior are not coming from the left today --- they are coming from the right. They are clever and well financed and they are being helped not just by their own rightwing media infrastructure --- the allegedly liberal NY Times and Washington Post are also helping them with their knee-jerk assumptions and phony narratives.


Update: How surprising. The AP is quoting Sparling too. No mention of hanging Jane Fonda in effigy.

Update II: Pictures of Sparling (identified as a colonel) at the protest were also picked up by World Picture News. Who's this guy's press agent? John McCain should hire him.


.
digby 1/29/2007 10:51:00 AM Comments (22) | Trackback (0)

Sunday, January 28, 2007


No Spit Zone

by digby

A bit more on the alleged spitting incident.

First of all, let me make it clear why this is a big deal. Most of you know that "spitting on veterans" is a big time hot button. We have been lucky to see very little hostility toward the troops during this war and I have seen no evidence that it is happening now. I think I speak for the vast majority of Americans when I say that we do not blame the soldiers and marines for what is happening and harbor no ill will toward them. We hold the political leaders who sent them over to that meat grinder responsible as is our right and responsibility as citizens.

But even the real hostility that we saw back in the 60's and 70's didn't actually feature people spitting on soldiers. It's an urban legend that was debunked long ago.

But it's a potent charge to this day and one that it's hard to believe Joshua Sparling (and the NY Times) didn't know would push buttons.

Here are a couple of interesting little factoids that readers have brought to my attention.

The Washington Post mentioned Sparling too in an earlier version of today's story about the march. It's been edited out of the current piece, but this intrepid blogger captured it:


Earlier in the day, a smaller rally was held at the Navy Memorial on Pennsylvania Avenue. About 3,000 people, many wearing pink or carrying pink signs, showed up for an antiwar protest sponsored by a women-run peace organization called CodePink.

Oriana Futrell, a Spokane, Wash., resident who said she has grown weary of going to the funerals of her friends' husbands, carried a sign also urging the return of her husband, an Army lieutenant in Iraq.

Across the street, however, was a counter-protest, staged by the Washington chapter of the conservative organization FreeRepublic.com. Those protesters, who organizers said feared that the antiwar march would hurt the U.S. anti-terror efforts, yelled and sported signs, such as one that read, "Go to hell traitors. You dishonor our dead on hallowed ground."

At least one veteran from the Iraq war tried to bridge the divide between the groups. Cpl. Joshua Sparling, 25, from Port Huron, Mich., who lost his right leg below the knee in an 2005 explosion in Ramadi, spoke to both groups.

Near the end of the CodePink rally, Sparling, a patient at Walter Reed Army Medical Hospital who used crutches to walk, went to the microphone and told the protesters that they are entitled to the right to demonstrate and must fight for what they believe in. But he reminded them that the situation is dire for many Iraqis and U.S. troops there believe that they are fighting to help provide a better option for the people of Iraq. He was rewarded with general applause, although a few feint boos could be heard.

When he finished, he walked across the street and spoke with the FreeRepublic group also.



Actually, according to witnesses in the comment section of the post below, it appears that Sparling was with the Freepers from the beginning.

I wonder why the Wapo eliminated this piece of the story? (I don't have any dark suspicions. It was probably space or relevance or something. Still, it's curious.)

Here, again, is how the NY Times reported the same incident. it's been changed slightly from the earlier version I quoted below, but I can't see how that changed the (misleading nature of) the story:


There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling spoke at a smaller rally held earlier in the day at the United States Navy Memorial, and voiced his support for the administration’s policies in Iraq.

Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back.

Capitol police made the antiwar protestors walk farther away from the counterprotesters.

“These are not Americans as far as I’m concerned,” Mr. Sparling said.



Unfortunately, this is the version that will be googled whenever anyone looks up "antiwar+protestors+spitting."

I have no idea what is behind all the problems with the public that Joshua Sparling seems to confront all the time. Certainly, you would think that if there's a lot of this going on that it would be documented by someone other than this one young man. And I find it very suspicious that it wouldn't be covered constantly in the right wing press, at least.

The salient fact here is that Sparling was allowed to address the anti-war protestors at the Code Pink rally and was treated respectfully and then went on to say that the very people who had allowed him to speak weren't "Americans." I do not know if the spitting incident is a lie, but I believe I am justifiably suspicious of his story under the circumstances.

What I do know is that the NY Times article was so badly reported and so misleading as to be a lie. By leaving out the fact that he spoke at an anti-war rally, it appeared as if he spoke at his own rally. And it made it sound as if the protestors walking by were provoking him, when, in fact, he'd been allowed to speak to them and was treated respectfully. It was the counter-protestors across the street --- his friends the Freepers --- who were the disruptive ones. The NY Times got it exactly backwards.

That they didn't bother to even google Sparling's name, where they would have found that he's something of a rightwing celebrity for his tales of victimization at the hands of terrible lefties, is journalistic malpractice.

They need to correct this story. And they need to look into Sparling. I suspect he's being used by a bunch of creepy Freepers and swiftboat professionals. The man gave his leg. He shouldn't be exploited by these jerks on top of it.

And if he's just making stuff up, the fact that he's a wounded veteran does not excuse it.

Update: From one of the appearances Sparling's dad made on Hannity and Colmes last year, this stands out:


COLMES: How did he get chosen? How did it come about
that last night he was in the gallery? Were you with
him last night at the State of the Union address?

SPARLING: Yes. As a matter of fact, I was sitting
beside Vice President Cheney's wife.

COLMES: Did you talk to her?

SPARLING: Yes, I did.

COLMES: What did you talk about?

SPARLING: She's a very nice lady. And I can see, you
know -- very, very kind-hearted family.

HANNITY: Mike, you sent Joshua our best. Tell him
he's in our prayers. And we look forward to seeing
you guys soon. Thank you very much. And we're going
to help you with that other problem, too, as you
know, when the time comes, about the job.

SPARLING: Sean, Joshua says you still owe him that
trip to New York. And he's sorry he couldn't be here
tonight, and he loves you to death.

HANNITY: When he's ready, he comes back up and we're
going to have a great time. I'm looking forward to
having him up here, sir. Thank you.



Seems they have friends in very high places.

Update II: Apparently Sparling has also made appearances at Ollie North's "Freedom Alliance" concerts. He's a certified minor wingnut celebrity.



Thanks to reader SJS

.
digby 1/28/2007 05:32:00 PM Comments (72) | Trackback (0)


Spitting Image

by digby

So the dirty, long haired hippies spit on wounded veterans yesterday. Isn't it just like them...

There were a few tense moments, however, including an encounter involving Joshua Sparling, 25, who was on crutches and who said he was a corporal with the 82nd Airborne Division and lost his right leg below the knee in Ramadi, Iraq. Mr. Sparling, who was not scheduled to speak, addressed the counterprotesters to voice his support for the administration's policies in Iraq.

Later, as antiwar protesters passed where he and his group were standing, words were exchanged and one of the antiwar protestors spit at the ground near Mr. Sparling; he spit back.



How awful. And it turns out that poor PFC Sparling has been treated terribly by these DFH's time and time again. Michele Malkin reported on another awful incident back in December:

Lots of readers watched Fox & Friends this morning and e-mailed about the disgusting greeting card a wounded soldier received while hospitalized at Walter Reed Army Hospital. Thanks to reader Shari for taking these cell phone camera shots of the card displayed by co-host Brian Kilmeade:

The card front, decorated with patriotic and holiday stamps, was deceptively innocuous. But take a look at what was inside:











Yes, that's right. It says "P.S. DIE" in the lower right-hand corner.

According to Kilmeade, who visited Walter Reed on Friday, a US Army soldier named Joshua Sparling received the death wish while recovering from a gunshot wound he received in Ramadi, Iraq. It's the only Christmas card he received. Fox & Friends is urging you to counter the hate by sending your thanks and good wishes to Sparling:

Joshua Sparling
c/o Walter Reed Army Medical Center
6900 Georgia Avenue N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20307-5001



Shameful!

Sean Hannity took up his case too and gave Sparling an iPod. (I wonder what neat loot he'll get for being spit upon!)

He has become such a famous victim that he and his parents even went to the State of the Union address at the invitation of Dennis Hastert.

Some might find it odd that such terrible treatment would befall the same man --- first he gets a terrible Christmas card (Christmas!) that tells him to "go die." Then, he was spat upon by protestors --- a myth of the 1960's come to life right before our very eyes. What are the odds?

Luckily the New York Times, which obviously reported his spitting incident without even the most cursory google search on his name, is helping to perpetuate this story for a new generation. From now on, any search of "spitting on Iraq veterans" will turn up this incident to back up the inevitable future claims by wingnuts that they were mistreated by the dirty hippies of 2007. Good job NY Times. That's why they call it the paper of record.


I wonder if they would consider doing a profile of poor put-upon Sparling. Surely, all these awful incidents should be compiled and also put in the paper of record. One poor 24 year old soldier appears to be bearing the brunt of the entire vicious hippie movement. Seems like there's a story there.

Update: Sparling had trouble at an airport too:

We arrived at the airport at 4:30 pm for a 5:10 flight. When we arrived there was no wheel chair, no one at the SPIRIT counter and no security. I looked for a SPIRIT employee for ten minutes. Joshua said, “Dad I’m going to miss my flight, just get me to the gate and they can help us there.” Northwest gave us a wheel chair, but we still had no security. Security would not let us through because we had no boarding pass. We informed them that SPIRIT had our boarding pass and asked that he please let us go to the gate with him and he could verify it, or get someone from SPIRIT and they could give it to him. The security guard said, “You are no different than any other passenger with no boarding pass - no go.”

My son started to cry uncontrollably and told the guard to go to hell. Another lady spoke up and said, “That’s what you get for fighting in a war we have no business in.” Madder and very emotional I asked, “Can’t you remember 9-11?” She responded that was just our excuse to be in Iraq when we should not be there and we deserved whatever we got. That is when my son really lost it. Three WWII vets were coming off flights into DC, gave my son a hug, and stood up to the lady and security guard. They stayed with my son until he flew out.



Thank goodness. It's hell out there for this veteran everywhere he goes.

Update II: Thanks to Julia for alerting me to this. Sparling has been in the news since 2005 when the army used him for PR purposes. Interesting.

It also seems that Sparling's horrible Christmas card was actually sent by a white supremecist nutcase named Michael Crook. (Or at least he took credit for it.) (This was noted by Malkin at the time.)

Sparling appears to be some sort of US Army Zelig with ties to white supremecists who is becoming the poster boy for veterans who feel beseiged by dirty hippies.

One wonders if John O'Neill has taken this young fellow under his wing.

.



H/T to reader JS


.
digby 1/28/2007 08:50:00 AM Comments (84) | Trackback (0)

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. Thanks to Digby!!
great summary
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #38
47. Ding, ding, ding!
Even more interesting is that the Beacon coincidentally shot some footage of Sparling standing with the Freepers.

We need to get freeper pictures to the Times reporter lady Proud2Blib met who claims to have seen the incident and see if she can identify the spitter amongst their group.

I am sure there are dozens of pics of the freeps DUers took, many have been posted here already. I'm at work so I can't compile but maybe someone else can or someone can start a thread requesting all freep pics be posted.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. Great idea!!
I also know that there HAD to be witnesses to this supposed spitting incident.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #38
61. I found this link on Digby as well
This Sparling seems to be everywhere! Here, he's training new Marines in a USMA propaganda piece:

http://www.usma.edu/publicaffairs/directorscorner/fayettevilleobsaug05.htm

Last week, as a machine gun fired blanks in the distance, Byrnes and her partner, Chin Lin, dodged from cover-to-cover as they ran the assault course, which teaches the cadets how to use grenades in combat.

82nd Pvt. Joshua Sparling was right behind them, offering advice the whole way.

"Always have two hands on your weapon. That way if you see anybody - boom, boom," he yelled at Byrnes as she ran for cover, her M-16 flailing at her side.

Lin dove behind a stump as Byrnes covered him. He rolled over on his back to fish a grenade out of a pouch on his belt, exposing his head to the machine gun fire.

"You have to keep down below that cover so you don't get popped in the head," Sparling yelled. Lin quickly tucked his head back behind the stump.
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #38
66. "it was important to show "the other side" of the story"
Neutrality is NOT objectivity. The MSM needs to figure this out once and for all.

Why is it that they even need to show the pro-war side of 40 at a rally of 100,000 anti-war protesters? Who cares??? That's not the story.


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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #38
74. I don't see the connection between Sparling
and white supremacists. There was a Michael Crook who claimed to have sent Sparling the death wish card. Michael Crook had a website that later changed to a page full of ads, then became a white supremacist website. Its likely the site just closed and was later taken over by another party and Michael Crook has no ties to white supremacists. Its also likely that Crook didn't send Sparling a card. I doubt Sparling received such a card at all.

Michael Crook was also involved in a probable hoax which involved a serviceman who lost his camera. The serviceman's story made CBS News. Crook claimed to have found the camera and demanded $1000 for its return. This outraged the right wing. Crook E-mailed a reporter pictures that were supposedly in the camera but they weren't recognized by the serviceman who lost it. The camera was later returned by someone other than Crook. The reporter concluded Crook was a probably carrying out a hoax.

One of Crook's websites had a hate the troops theme. At one point, the Freepers were physically hunting him.

What Sparling and Crook have in common is that they both know how to get right wingers alarmed, get lots of publicity, and get away with multiple stunts. Both have appeared on Sean Hannity too. I wouldn't be shocked to find out these two worked together, but I don't see any firm connection.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #38
75. brilliant....digby just completely ripped it up
"These weren't friendly people. They were people looking to provoke a response. That they got it in the form of spitting, based on everything I saw Saturday, seems laughable on its face."
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
39. anyone remember Phil Parlock?
Edited on Tue Jan-30-07 12:45 PM by Cocoa
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. Yes this sure sounds like a parlock to me
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-31-07 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #39
77. OP should write in again about the Parlock staged "atrocities"
Challenge the reporter to prove it was not a fake Parlock-style operation.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
48. Nice work!!!!
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jaysunb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
52. I am soooo proud of you !
Rapid response is the only way to reform the MSM and stop them from abetting the destruction of this country.

I especially liked this:
The blogs are already on this story and it doesn't look like it will go away without a retraction in your paper.


Just another indication of the power of the nets....

way to go...:hi:
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Thank you
I didn't get what I had hoped but it is nice to get all this praise from DUers.
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Madspirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
54. Great letter
...and even if the incident did happen why would the left be maligned for the behavior of one person? That's just stupid. I don't think it happened. If it did, I think it was staged. If it did happen and it wasn't staged, once again, the behavior of ONE person should not be how an entire movement is judged. It's just something for the RW to latch onto.

I was around and an anti-war protester during Viet Nam and these stories were all over the place. In reality, we often worked with active duty soldiers who had to completely hide their involvement in the anti-war movement. We have never been anti-soldier.
Madspirit
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
55. K&R.(nt)
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montanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
56. K&R Thanks for following up on this.
Sorry we didn't get to meet. I lost the whole group on Saturday.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
62. I told the reporter he was a "two-bit whore"
and he hit me with a sack of quarters.
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Irishonly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
63. Great Letter and Research
I am a little late but proud2belib wrote an excellent letter. I too, wish you would have received the response you wanted. The research on Sparling was spot on. That poor babbling neocon.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
65. Well done! I'm so glad you did that -- next up, LTTE! Thanks for the follow through...
:yourock: :toast:

Hekate

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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
67. You go, Proud!!
K&R!

Go get 'em, Tiger!

dg
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central scrutinizer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
70. marginalization is the issue
Even if it did happen exactly as the reporter said and even if it was a soldier who had not previously been celebrated by the VRWC and the spitter was one of the marchers, this is exactly the same tactic always used by the media to marginalize protestors. The same thing happened in Seattle during the anti-GATT rallies. Ignore the tens of thousands of peaceful marchers and the union members linking arms with the hippies so you can focus on the half dozen who threw a rock through McDonald's window. If there are thousands and thousands of marchers, you can bet that the photo that makes the papers will be the marchers with the most piercings, the most tattoos, the longest dreadlocks, or the most outrageous. Why focus on the combined mainstream clergy when you can interview the Wiccans? Sensationalism sells. Drives me fucking nuts.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-31-07 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #70
80. The Teri Schiavo protesters weren't marginalized.
Coreographed vigil-keepers as a billboard, with the noble Friar Tuck articulating his wisdom and compassion on national TV night after night. But hardly a whisper about pulling the plug at that very same time on a child in Texas over the objection of his mother. Sorry, no health insurance. We know what's best.

And when the autopsy proved that Teri had been brain dead for years and could not have possibly responded "...to visual stimuli" - well, that didn't stay in the corporate media for long, did it?
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jannyk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
71. Oooh, you're good!! well done! n/tt
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Hosnon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
72. Very impressive. I applaud you for keeping it respectful and professional.
Edited on Tue Jan-30-07 06:44 PM by MJDuncan1982
I suspect some letter-writers don their tinfoil hats when doing what you have done.

Bravo:)
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-31-07 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #72
87. LOL My tin foil hat is a permanent fixture
:tinfoilhat:
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-31-07 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
78. This is how they report the news. Make up fabricated stories and
report it as the truth. They been doing this bullshit reporting for years.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-31-07 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
81. this canard is repeatedly false, repeatedly brought up again, but I have to ask
EVEN IF this were true.....so frickin what? Peace protestors are shot with rubber bullets, maced, tazed, even killed by police.

why do right wingers FEAR saliva? why do they constantly WHINE about it? What are they trying to accomplish, exactly, with these false parlockian charges?
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Sweet Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-31-07 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
83. Great letter!
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-31-07 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
88. Excellent letter, Proud2BLib...
I kind of missed part of this story and haven't been home long enough to research back on it. Was this alleged spittee at the march with the group that was protesting the protesters? With the fat guy with the "Hippies Smell" sign, the gas mask and the big belly?

P.S. I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to meet you while I was down there. I chose to migrate around the march for more photo-taking opportunities instead of marching with the group, so I'm afraid I missed several DUers. It was a great event, wasn't it?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-31-07 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #88
98. Yes it was awesome
And yes, the spittee was with the freepers in that free speech zone they set up behind a fence.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-31-07 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
91. Here you go, I posted this in another thread, but think it's okay
to repost it here.

Here is a blog that has his statements taken on the day of the march and NO REFERENCE TO SPITTING. (Can someone screen capture this in case conservative prop alters his blog?)

Also notice the barriers between the Anti-War folks and the Counter-Anti-War folks - tough to spit "on" someone from there and the words of this guy seem to reflect he is the spitting type.

http://conprotantor.blogspot.com/2007/01/ufpj-march-on-washington-jan-27-2007.html

http://bp1.blogger.com/_EoaekWnLvZc/Rb11iUs5PSI/AAAAAAAAADw/LZfPi29tMgo/s320/20070127AntiwarRally_+219.jpg

Joining the Freeper counter-protest was Army PFC Joshua Sparling, a wounded veteran of Iraq who was the subject of a flurry of publicity a year ago when he was recovering at Walter Reed and received a Christmas card from an unhinged lefty hoping he would die.

http://bp3.blogger.com/_EoaekWnLvZc/Rb1460s5PTI/AAAAAAAAAD4/UVaMRP2rEFg/s320/20070127AntiwarRally_+221.jpg

The anti-war marchers stopped to heckle the Freepers and Josh. Said one, "FUCK THE WAR LOVERS!"

http://bp3.blogger.com/_EoaekWnLvZc/Rb1650s5PUI/AAAAAAAAAEA/0zbQiJw5ioU/s320/20070127AntiwarRally_+232.jpg

Josh was there with his girlfriend. Cute, isn't she? Josh spoke his mind about the protest march:

"This march here? I think these are basically people that just don't really understand what's going on. These are what I like to call TV liberals. All they do is watch television and get all their information off of there. If they had any real world experience and actually could see what was going on. They're walking here because of people like me who fight for their freedom and the people that have sacrificed their lives are the real heroes.

If they were in Iraq right now they would be wishing that they could have somebody come in and save them so they could have the same freedoms that we do. They really don't understand that. That's the whole reason I joined because of my nephews and nieces who I loved to grow up in freedom. They can do whatever they want. They can be whatever they want. People in Iraq are taken from their homes. They're captured if they don't agree with their dictatorship. All I'm saying is they're people, too and they deserve the same rights that we as Americans deserve.

They say fighting doesn't solve anything but we would not be here unless the Revolutionary war happenned, World War I, World War II. We'd be speaking German right now. It needs the soldiers They don't understand. They're ignorant and ignorance is bliss, they say. They're caught up in their cause and that's all they see. They're blind."


http://bp2.blogger.com/_EoaekWnLvZc/Rb192ks5PVI/AAAAAAAAAEI/h5wMDkLAwOY/s320/20070127AntiwarRally_+236.jpg


Funny, no talk of spitting at this blog or FR or at RedHunter - nothing from pro-war conservatives that were there that day. :shrug:

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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-02-07 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #91
100. Gee you'd think they would have posted such a horrible incident,
but then we know the truth... SOB LIED
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-02-07 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #91
102. Here they are at the freeper rally >
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-02-07 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #102
103. Wow, whoever can spit that far needs to go on Letterman.
:silly:


:hi: how ya doing Stephanie? :hug:
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