Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaah Larry King to Jane Fonda

What do you make of Sarah Palin!

Jane - sad. You go girl! That was freaking perfect. :rofl: :rofl:

I don't quite get what she was trying to say?

that it's sad when you want to run for office and have no grasp of issues. She suggested that she can have a TV show, but really should stay away from politics.
She's having so much fun with You Betcha - :rofl:

I will always cherish the footage of "The Discomfiting of Colbert".

I adore her.:hi:

;)

:puke:

She can go to hell.

and repudiated the act. It was stupid, youthful ignorance and naive idealism. What more would you like her to do? 38 YEARS AGO, for God's sakes. We forgave the North Vietnamese and reestablished relationships 15 years ago... What is the statute of limitation for the hatred of Fonda? :eyes:

"Yes, yes, yes, ... She's apologized for that..."

:puke: God.

My father was serving in Vietnam when she was hugging and kissing the people shooting at him. I don't give a fuck what she does.

Your adopting the "offense" to yourself is pretty damned second hand. :eyes:

So you don't get offended by something unless it happened to you? :eyes:

We find something.

I think you're saying that for the sake of disagreement.

whatever it is that you gain from this...:shrug:

in their progeny... :eyes:

I guess the opinions of the blind don't change either.

Too bad your blindness prevents you from see the difference between protest and what Fonda did.

I can do that.

either did your daddy

I'm sorry he was done the way he was by the monsters who perpetuate everwar for their own ends at the expense of people like him

tremendous success. Many of us respect and admire her. I've had the privilege of hearing her speak. She is outstanding.

A lot of people served in SE Asia, proteus. A lot. On both sides, on all sides. There are many stories to tell about that war. Not just your father's.

The Constitution those soldiers were fighting for gives you, me, Jane Fonda, Gene McCarthy, or anyone else the right to protest the policies of the government, made more vivid IMO by the fact that that government lied to the citizenry about the administration and progress of the war.

Between protest and giving aid and comfort to people trying to kill US soldiers.

Would you support Sean Penn going to Iraq and posing with insurgents and holding an IED?

Fuck Jane Fonda.

and collateral narratives affecting many millions of lives.

Not. Just. Your. Father's.


Others as well, many others, millions of others.

That trip to Vietnam by Fonda was nearly four decades ago. You might want to update your file. She apologized while you have borne the grudge. In my opinion that makes her the one with more integrity.

Do you think there is a difference between protesting the war and giving aid and comfort to people killing U.S. soldiers?

Your opinion is yours to hold. I have my own.

The intent of your question is its manipulative outcome. And I think you are the one doing the dodging in this thread because you are the one who has to nurse his grudge.

Jane Fonda, some thirty or forty years ago, apologized and moved on. She is a tremendous success for it, too. You are stingy to deny anyone a truly earned success.

And you are too bitter to be clear on the liberal iconic figures you've dismissed. Zinn is too one-sided for you. Fonda can "go to hell." Your position is intensely begrudging and very bitter. It's effectively a permanent dodge.

You might consider being a bit less stingy in praise, especially in the case of a woman who has earned that praise.

I don't think she's earned any praise.

Bitter? I don't agree with you. What's bitter about that. Zinn is too one-sided and Fonda can go to hell. Barbarella shouldn't be forgiven for she did.

We all know why you're ducking the question. It's expected.

earned praise, even if you are not enough of a man to acknowledge that.

I did see BARBARELLA. Not her best role by any means, but not all that bad a performance, given the script's limits, IMO. She was knee-slapping funny in THE ELECTRIC HORSEMAN.

The "one-sidedness" you perceive in Zinn is the singular voice versus the established version of U.S. history.

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3 to 4 million Vietnamese from both sides
1.5 to 2 million Laotians and Cambodians
58,159 U.S. soldiers.

By this war's end, the Vietnamese had been fighting foreign involvement or occupation in various wars for over a hundred years.

The Vietnam conflict was foolish to begin with.

We should have supported a democratic Vietnam after WWII. Our first mistake was supporting French colonialism.

& you're right, we should have, so why carry around that resentment for jane fonda after all these years, a bit player whose PR stunts were an insignificant drop of spit in the river of 6 million plus dead.

...why wasn't she prosecuted for treason?

...people responsible for enforcing the applicable laws realized that was not the case, it was just a protest made in an inappropriate fashion. Her subsequent apology seems to corroborate such assessment.

What's yours?

It's the golden ticket out of all kinds of trouble.

You might not agree with how she went about trying to do it but you were not "there". Imagine a war you find wrong headed, like Iraq. You watch the nightly news each night to learn hundreds or thousands of your peers, your friends, were dying there. Each night. Each week. Thousands. Then you know your loved ones, your husband, your brother, your son might get drafted and die for a mistake.

Having a couple of pictures taken with the enemy in an effort to stop the slaughter of 50,000 young, hopeful, beautiful Americans doesn't seem like its worthy of hatred, especially 38 years later.

Condemn her actions but IT WAS NOT HER INTENT TO HELP THE ENEMY.

It was her intent to end the war.

Get your hate on with the Pentagon and LBJ and Nixon and all those responsible for the war, not with those who tried to stop it.

I disagree.

She posed and laughed with NVA troops, made radio broadcasts for their benefit and praised them. Sounds like aid and comfort to me.

"It was her intent to end the war"

So she claimed when she was salvaging her career out of exercise video-land.

"Get your hate on with the Pentagon and LBJ and Nixon and all those responsible for the war"

Oh, I do. Very much.

long after Vietnam.

I'm sorry you dad died in Vietnam. Never should have happened. Never.

But Jane Fonda did not give comfort to the enemy. The people she posed with were as much victims as your dad was. Manipulated by their governments like your dad was. Like we all were. To feed the war machine and the egos of the powerful here and there.

My dad didn't die in vietnam. But it affects him to this day.

"But Jane Fonda did not give comfort to the enemy."

I disagree with that point. I stand by legitimate protest and how it can change things. But what did was beyond the pale.

"Manipulated by their governments like your dad was. Like we all were. To feed the war machine and the egos of the powerful here and there."

I agree. They were pawns of D.C, Moscow and Beijing. But I can't support what Fonda did. It was wrong and it hurt the people she claims to have wanted to help.

my husband and father were in the military at the time. I wanted them home. She'll always be a hero to me for calling us out. We'd been protesting the war for years. Half of Americans thought we should come home by 68 but it took another 6 years and tens of thousands of lives to do it. She didn't harm anyone (except perhaps your feelings). Anything that drew attention to the crime that was Vietnam was worth it to me (except more violence).

A photo op was NOTHING compared to the thousands who died. It's like giving the death penalty to someone for shoplifting. She's an American hero. Then and now

"She didn't harm anyone (except perhaps your feelings)." She slapped every U.S. soldier in the face and she shat on the real protesters and movement.

"She's an American hero. Then and now"

What other "American Heroes" have posed with people killing U.S. soldiers?

she hurt their feelings, some of them anyway. My father and husband did not have their feelings hurt.

If soldiers have hurt feelings or feel slapped in the face by the likes of Jane Fonda might be they are too thin skinned for the armed forces.

The armed forces are protecting the rights of Americans to speak their minds. That is all she did.

Put the shoe on the other foot. If the Vietnamese invaded our country, say to join the South during the civil war, and were killing millions of us, how would you feel? Would you consider the Northerners, say, who fought them to be heroes? Of course you would. Take it out of the personal and stop supporting US imperialist actions that were clearly wrong.

"Take it out of the personal and stop supporting US imperialist actions that were clearly wrong."

You think I support the wars (past or present) just because I don't like what Fonda did? You couldn't be further from the truth.

"The armed forces are protecting the rights of Americans to speak their minds. That is all she did."

I disagree, she crossed the line. Simple as that.

you avoided the question

would it be crossing the line if the roles were reversed? If we were invaded by say China, if they killed millions of us. How would you feel if some star from China came to the US, posed for pictures with Obama or anyone, and said "We shouldn't be killing all these Americans. We should make peace."

Honestly, answer that question.

If we had had a legitimate goal in Vietnam, had it been a just war, I'd feel differently. Had Jane done it to Hitler, I would hate her too. But it was my generation that was getting drafted. It was my husband and father in harms way. And it was an unjust, unwinable war. And we invaded their country.

...are being systematically annihilated by a superior military power for the sake of empire, I think it is not only appropriate, but also obligatory to give them "aid and comfort". Congratulations on your channeling of Ashcroft. I'm sure it was fully unintentional.

So when will you be traveling to Iraq to give aid and comfort to insurgents and pose with IEDs?

...but it wouldn't bother me if Sean Penn did it. The insurgents (as you call them) are fighting for their right to live free of U.S. hegemony. Remember that military report a few years back that concluded that around 7% of the attacks on U.S. forces were through the boogieman "Al Qaeda"? The people don't want us there. It's just a shame that our soldiers are dying for some old men's dream of imperialism, but separating the two into us and them camps is the sort of tribal thinking that got us there in the first place. The Iraqis are fighting for their autonomy. What could be more 'American'.

The Vietnam invasion and occupation was immoral. We were killing people who neither harmed nor threatened the American people. Jane wanted the war over. Needless killing is wrong. There is no gray area.
The underlying reason for the war was the perception that there was a vast oil reserve off the coast.
It was essentially a war to secure the resources of another sovereign nation. Sound familiar?
When it was determined the oil reserves didn't exist the war was essentially ended.
Sometimes you have to admit your government is sacrificing blood for oil.

She had the guts and the money to protest there. If you pause and try to study the distinctions between the brass and the soldiers there it isn't difficult to figure out who you stand with. What about the CIA guys who set it up? They are a million times worse than Fonda. The brass knew that why there were leading and why. Testing new toys - giving the soldiers real action, not training action, a hunger for war, and to make the corporations profitable, especially the latter. It was a mineral rich land to own and expand out from because it would allow the waters bot be controlled and the air approaches would/could be easy. Our agenda was not heroic. Whether flying over there to protest or staying here - there are a lot of us who were against the war. Lash out at every last one of us on behalf of your Dad - it's a major endeavor. There are some people that believe if you use brains you can cut the killing down - close to zero. We were born to overcome our killing instincts and rise to the highest of our potentials, not the lowest - killing people. It's about rationalizing war - or not.

"there are a lot of us who were against the war. Lash out at every last one of us on behalf of your Dad - it's a major endeavor."

Protesting the war was a good and honorable thing. My mother was a protester. Jane Fonda wasn't protesting. She was giving aid and comfort to people killing U.S. soldiers.

She rocks.

the war.

They're called "Iraqis"... the ones we call "insurgents" are the ones that were recruited by the many acts of Rummy and Bush, and they don't tend to bring children with them to the town center.

Tom Hayden speak at the University of Dayton, of all places. Not long after they had begun to speak, police came in and announced that a bomb threat had been called in and that they wanted everyone to leave "for the sake of safety."

Fonda grabbed the mike from the cop and told the audience that this is what has been happening -- people calling in anonymous bomb threats to frighten away the audience for her and Hayden, so that their speaking tour about economic democracy would be silenced.

She asked that people see through this deceit and remain in the hall.

Most did.

I was lucky to be among them. She and Hayden were outstanding.

Nice to see you on these boards tonight.

Had I been, I would just ignored Barbarella.

jobs have been in decline for some decades, but it sits in Montgomery County, the only county in the 2004 presidential race in Ohio that went blue, surrounded by a field of red counties in SW Ohio.

Wright-Patterson Airforce Base is there; the museum is very impressive. The public libraries are rich in Wright Brothers sources. The local pizza is very good also -- Vic Cassano's deluxe is not to be sneezed at. The art museum just across the Miami River is way better than anybody from someplace else could guess. The Wasson Piano School for years generated top-drawer pianists. The Forest Book Store, in its day, sold records from the early days of prime-composition rock and folk. There is some heart-stopping first-stand timber in the grounds near Yellow Springs, about 15 minutes away.

Yellow Springs sounds cool and I never pass up museums. Plus, I love good pizza.

I'll keep it in mind if I ever visit.

exit at Blue Ball / Middletown. At the NW corner of Rt. 122 and Old Cincinnati-Dayton Road, is the only monument to the Poland China hog in the United States.

Definitely worth the trip down.

It sounds cool. I haven't been to Ohio but who knows when that will change?

of the most overwhelming Indian victory in the nation's history. Funny that we only hear about Custer's Last Stand.

that part of the world.

Sounds like a trip to Dayton is in order.

blue collar town's tasty pizza, Vic Cassano's your go-to guy.

:hi:

:hi:

and I probably shouldn't go here...reading Zinn's People's History of the U.S.; just read part about Vietnam War. Very eye opening, to say the least. Should be required reading here.

He did not impress.

And Fonda is still an asshole.

I think Howard Zinn is the cat's pajamas.

He committed all the academic sins he accused others of.

And his is the singular voice against the textbook academicians and news analysts.

The problem you're having with Zinn is yours, not his.

Libraries are full of authors who raise their voices against accepted versions of events.

His view was shallow and unoriginal. It might impress someone who hasn't cracked a history book since public school. But people who study history look for deeper works.

"Lies My Teacher Told Me" by James Loewen.

http://www.amazon.com/Lies-My-Teacher-Told-Everything/dp/0684818868

DISPATCHES by Michael Herr.

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Less holier-then-thou BS.

Once again, Zinn is impressive to those who haven't opened a history book since high school but a person can borrow much better works from any public library.

detailing all of H Zinns acedemic sins.
When can we expect it?

:sarcasm:

My father fought in Korea. One of the 'Chosin Few', he survived the battle at the frozen Chosin Reservoir. He came home in pieces with frostbite and medals for his troubles.

He hates Koreans. He hates Chinese. He hates the smell of garlic. He still suffers from ptsd.

I don't hate Koreans. I don't hate Chinese. I like garlic.

I respect his right to hate but I choose not to hate in his name.

TYY

Smiling and giggling as she sat in the turret? No thanks!

to do with the toaster oven...

But some things shouldn't be swept under the rug.

The predictability is amusing. It's entertaining.

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But not about giving aid and comfort to NVA troops.

Would you support Sean Penn going to Iraq, doing some photo-ops with insurgents and posing with an IED?

Bad comparison.

The U.S. troops, by and large, are participating in a sham they have no choice in being a part of. It's either this or be unemployed back home for many of them. They have nowhere else to go. There are very few factories here. There really aren't that many living wage jobs, PERIOD, here. For some, this is really their only opportunity. And we're sending them to fight people that we created as enemies; all because we need to justify spending multiple billions a month on the PentaSewer and it's needs.

on the one side, we have the U.S. involvement in Indochina, which led to the deaths of 3 to 4 million Vietnamese and 60,000 U.S. soldiers (thousands of those unnecessarily, but the PTB couldn't admit the entire action was a lost cause). On the other side we have a young woman who posed for the so-called enemy. I'm not sure, but I think your hierarchy of atrocities is backward.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

Give me a break. Her "bad acts" aren't even in the same ballpark, much less on the same planet, as the genocide we committed in Indochina. We had no business being there (kind of like Iraq) and while it sorrows me that so many of our own either died or lost their minds, it was to be expected. We weren't welcome there. We had no business there. We got what we were looking for.

Again, I question your hierarchy of atrocities if you find it appropriate to compare a photo shoot to genocide.

I'm simply stating a fact.

And please don't use "genocide" We waged a bloody war but using genocide cheapens the term and it's not applicable.

They consider it a genocide, and to tell you the truth, they suffered more than we did. I really am sorry about your father. He, like all the others, had no business being there. However, what happened to him was merely a logical consequence of us invading that country. I don't see why you have such difficulties understanding that, but I suspect his trauma infected you at some point. My uncle is a great guy. He really moved far in his life; going from Vietnam to being a statistics professor at a private Florida University. Yet, to this day he is unable to speak about Vietnam without using words like 'slope' and 'slant' (preceded by 'fucking' normally). I pity him for that and I pity you for your bitterness as well. Maybe you will find a way to evolve beyond your bitterness.

You'll evolve past your narrow-mindedness and the habit of clinging to buzz-words.

My father went far too. Family man, successful business-owner and many more things.

I doubt your uncle or my father want your pity. Maybe you try understanding veterans rather then pigeon-holing them.

...an E5. I understand veterans all too well. That, however, is not the point. Nor do I care whether your father or my uncle wants my pity or not (aside from the fact that I wrote that I pity my uncle and you, not your father). It is merely the emotion I feel when I read your words; not unlike your bitterness and anger. I'm sure Jane Fonda sleeps well at night in spite of your opinion of her though.

You still don't get it that we were the aggressors in Vietnam, hence we got what we deserved. The same goes for Iraq. Imagine, if we wouldn't have gone there, so many people would still have their eyes, their limbs, their minds...yes, even their lives. That's worth more than some bullshit support-the-troops jingoism. Want to support the troops? Bring them home.

"Want to support the troops? Bring them home."

Agreed, 100%.

If only real life were like that.

go fuck himself because he had the radical idea that his people deserved the rewards from their labors. Then we backed a criminal regime, installed by yet another foreign nation and murdered millions of peasants over a bigger dick game with the Soviets. Not to mention Laos and Cambodia, two more crimes against humanity that we can boast about.

We were the bad guys, nothing we (both Dem and Repub) did from day one, the lead up, the crisis, or the ending loss, was the right thing to do. Adding crimes on top of crimes on top of crimes, still total crimes.

This was a textbook opportunity to make the world better that we specifically chose to fight against for no other reason than to make rich people richer. If you were there, I'm sorry, I lost two uncles and a cousin to that crime so I have a clue, but that doesn't change the facts.

caught up in the times. She knows how foolish it was now. What can she do to correct it other than the many apologies she has already made?

JMHO but our country was waging an unjustified war they lied us into (sound familiar?).

That's a very good question and I await Proteus's answer. Maybe she should give all she has to the US Army and allow herself to be crucified in the middle of the Vietnam War Memorial? Or maybe be burned at the stake on a pile of Barbarella DVDs?

Seems he's trying to get his guests to vomit on screen.

She's a hot young lady. He is a homely man, and 76.

near her league in any category.

If any DUers browsing thru these boards tonight have never seen Jane Fonda and Vanessa Redgrave in JULIA, I strongly recommend you rent the film and unplug the phone from the wall. It is a winner.

I have too much respect for my father.

The recommendation stands.

Thanks for the reminder.

Redgrave command the screen. They've both done other excellent roles but here they just seem to give off light. It's just remarkable watching their faces.

- - -

Love the Kahlo avatar, too! :thumbsup:

Glad you like the Kahlo. She was one of a kind.

The hatred for her is hysterical.

Love your sig, btw

and I think that's spot on. Exactly right.

Significant portions of the federal government generally and the Pentagon particularly lied through their teeth about the war in SE Asia and a handful of grumble-bunnies are blasting Jane Fonda.

Makes no sense.

Thanks, and great to see you hereabouts. :hi:

because I forgot to type in 'Recommended.'

:thumbsup:

Go Jane.

Gotta love her. :-)

:hi:

Every program would have Palin if they could. I dare say Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow would have Palin as a guest if they could. Not that I'm a big Larry fan or anything.

you go girl!

Vietnam. I don't even think that's in question anymore. I just switched from my DVD to watch the show. Oh yea, I love Jane Fonda movies. IMHO she's one of the best.

:hi:

I, too, opposed the Vietnam War and protested against it every chance I got.

But, not for one second, was I ever angry at the troops. They were our friends, fathers, brothers, sons, husbands, boyfriends, cousins, neighbors, etc. All I wanted was for the war to end, so that they could come home sooner & safe.

Thank your father for his service.

I'll pass it along to him.

My mother also protested the war every chance she got. My dad knew the war was wrong after just a couple weeks there. He has often stated his admiration of the protesters and the effect they had. He was proud of them. But Fonda? He described a "kick to the gut" about seeing a celebrity whose posters were tacked-up in G.I. barracks, posing with a NVA gun-crew. It hurt and it was wrong. I examined the issue on my own and I agree with him. It was wrong and it spat on legitimate protest.

I think her heart was in the right place, but she just wasn't informed or smart enough to see that she was being used.

Picture someone that you know like that... not dumb, just naive & uninformed talking about politics, for example. They might be passionate on the subject, just woefully ignorant.

I went to a screening a few years ago & she was one of the speakers after the film was shown. She spoke about it. I know she regrets it & would go back & change it if she could.

It might be time for you & your Dad to let it go.

One I'll think about.

I don't know if I agree because the effects of her trip were real, despite her intentions.

I don't wish her any harm and maybe my opinion will challenge one day. But my dad? I can't ask him to "let things go" when it comes to Vietnam. I don't think I have the right. The war is still an every day thing for him.

...I'm talking 'in general' now... not about this, specifically...

Hating someone is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die.

All it does is wreak havoc on our own bodies & souls... the other person goes thru life la-di-da, oblivious to it, while we make ourselves stressed & sick over it.

We need to forgive for ourselves, not for others.

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I'm a sicko?

"He always supports mass slaughtering of foreigners whose lives are inconvenient or irrelevant and sides always with KKKorporate AmeriKKKa, no matter how evil the acts,"

Wow, that's a lot of KKKs. Do actually have anything to say or you just filled with buzz-words?

Buzz words... All you got is "gave comfort to the enemy"...over and over and over.

Jane Fonda dared to point out the fact Larry had been married EIGHT times. She said she remembered how many because he was the only one she knew of that had been married more than her dad. He was NOT happy with her at all, it was hilarious. As he was wrapping up, Fonda made the comment she wouldn't be asked back, rofl!

It was great, lol.

:hi:

A President from Texas took office under unusual circumstances. He then started a war predicated on lies.
Some things never change.