How many of you come here willing to change your opinion if you're wrong?

and not just in regards to empirical evidence, but in regards to philosophy, etc.

iow, not all decisions (like whether to be pro-choice or not) simply come down to empirical evidence.

it's about how you weight competing interests, rights, duties, etc.

i've had people say that they would never change their mind on X.

then, why are you engaged in a discussion on it? your mind's made up. you are not discussing. you are preaching yer religion

No, wait.

Lunch is.

Not once. Something about the anonymity of the internet fuels a desire to "be right" no matter what. Or at least to never concede "defeat."

It doesn't happen often but it does happen.

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Admitting you're wrong, that is. Not necessarily changing your opinion but I imagine some people find that difficult as well.

It's much easier to fight, or even just not reply. I've been making the effort to let people who correct me know that their effort is appreciated and hasn't gone to waste.

A fiery person on this board kept at me until I changed my mind. And I'm forever grateful to her for helping me see the issue through her eyes.

DUers. Once I heard their argument I was astounded at my lack of sensitivity on the subject. It taught me something...

between civil unions and marriage. It was a simple statement, separate but equal.

just because gays finally get to do it?"

It was like the poster who said that had just slapped some sense into me. And yardwork, if you're reading this, thank you. :hi:

granted it doesn't happen often :D, but I will, can, and do, admit when I'm wrong or have made a mistake. Hey, I even apologize when it's warranted. and sometimes when it's not just 'cause it's good manners.

And some do correct themselves. I just did a while back using the Latin American board.

it usually takes time to figure out you're wrong.

I forget the exact case, but I have twice, and I distinctly remember saying to myself "How could I have been so wrong?"

eom

:D

(I've mea culpaed quite a bit here, BTW).

Right?

Why, yes, I think we have a winner.

that you may have missed before.

And let me guess, your answer was "I'm never wrong".

As regards the latter, "I'm never wrong" wasn't an option.

:eyes:

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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8103571

That's me in the wig.

And it's not the first time, either.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I am always open to changing my mind if the evidence proves the point - and I agree with the "morality" of it. Sometimes facts can be manipulated. Sometimes facts can be misunderstood. Sometimes facts have underlying reasons why they are the facts they are - that if you examine the underlying rotten underpinnings of those facts - then even though the facts are "true" - you must reject them due to their inherent falsity.

I have always admitted when I'm "wrong". I am never so arrogant that I can't learn something from everyone. (peoples opinions notwithstanding.) Sometimes, yeah, there' s "gut rightness" that can't be explained with charts and graphs (and there're some people so entrenched in THEIR "opinion" that god almighty - or Harvey the Giant Rabbit - or their dear departed grandmother speaking from beyond the grave - canNOT get them to even question the possibility that they MIGHT be wrong...)

My kids were always allowed to try and "convince me" with good arguments. GOOD argumennts - not "everyone's doing it", not "you're so mean", not "but moooooooooooooooom, I'm the ONLY one blah blah blah" - that just ain't gonna cut it.

CONVINCE ME with logic and sound arguments and critical thinking.

;)

It just verifies in my mind how right I am, since so many are wrong. And all I did? Just challenge their 'mindset' with an unpopular view. I know that is lamo, but that is all I can come up with on the govenments dime. Who am I?

Mr. Always Right, On Everything.

1/13th or .4242393...I have it all logged on my latest blog entree.

and I have gone 180 degrees from my original position on more than one issue due to things I've learned here.

Anyone who refuses to outright, is definitely in the wrong place.

I read one side vigorously making a point and I think, "Damn, that makes sense."

The I read the opposing side vehemently rejecting that point, arguing the opposite, and I think, "Damn that makes sense."

I can find something to "agree with" - or at least UNDERSTAND from every side.

Makes it difficult sometimes. I may not agree with WHAT you say, but I may agree with your right to say it (or not), or I may fully understand why it is that you believe the things you do.

One of my fortes has always been the ability to look at a subject from all sides (not just two, you know). That is really the only way to truly understand a subject.

If you ever did debate you know that you had to be prepared to argue either side - convincingly.

I think that's a lot of people's problems, they never really bother to try and understand the other side(s). They know what they know and that's it dammit.

First thing I taught my kids was logic (no wait - the FIRST thing I taught them was EMPATHY!) then logic and critical thinking. Deduction. Reasoning.

God does THAT get tiresome when they reach the age of wanting to do their own thing. Sometimes the debates rage for weeks!! :rofl:

I love my kids. :loveya: even when they're driving me freaking crazy!!!

:)

from a different angle or through someone else's eyes.

:hide::evilgrin::hide:

:silly:

:yoiks:

Sometimes, if you have alot of knowledge on a topic, just having a civil conversation with someone in a way that is not insulting, offensive or snarky, can really make a difference.

And if someone is willing to provide data - I will change my mind

A lot of people don't want to have a "civil conversation" they want to call you names and beat you over the head and ridicule you and get their friends to pile on.


I have - um - occasionally - succumbed to being snarky but generally not without extreme provocation. Of course I seem to have a way of pissing people off even when I'm trying desperately NOT to. I went through a phase where I would only post clips and links and none of my own words so I wouldn't slip up and "say something to piss them off". Didn't matter. they'd get pissed off anyway. I DO try to be diplomatic. But yeah, sometimes I do get PISSED as well. And evidently I'm not very good at making what I think are pretty harmless funny jokes . . . I try to ilghten the mood and it just seems to set some people off even more. It's like they don't WANT to "like" me because they don't like my ideas and demonizing and villifying me - it helps them keep their "opinions" intact and unchallenged.

Life's too short.

and try to go by repeatable observations. why you asking?

That's why I chose #1

i chose #1. forgot to say.

I find myself coming here with preconceived ideas all the time, only to change my mind after getting additional information and or a well thought-out and well presented opposing opinion.

I've never been wrong. :P

is the politically correct one.

Yes, some change their opinion if wrong, some even admit it, but both are rare occurrences.

including always insisting you are right about everything. The fact is that you aren't and neither is anybody else. I get a huge laugh out of it all the time!

Sometimes I think I should adopt the George Costanza philosophy and whatever I think to do I should do the opposite.

says, "Don't do it!" So experience can be helpful.

However, on some factual stuff, I often make assumptions and then find out I was dealing with incorrect premises. I had to learn this the hard way when I returned to school in my late 50s to obtain a Masters degree. I found that the more that I opened my mind, the better everything was...and I learned a lot, too!

But then I rode through it last week although there was not so much. I can make it, it's not that deep.

Well yes, it wasn't that deep, maybe 4 inches, but it was too deep to ride my bike through, especially when I hesitated because I couldn't see the bike trail. After about 10 yards when I stopped the water was over my feet when I put them down and had to walk the bike back through the water. Fortunately it was a warm day for March here in Wisconsin.

What is disappointing here at DU where we are supposed to be Democrats, or at least Liberals and Progressives, is how often our minds are closed to opposing ideas or viewpoints even among ourselves. People will defend their point of view or idea with no quarter given and anyone opposing can bugger off.

My husband's parents built a house on the Door Peninsula after his father retired as Superintendent of Schools in Kenosha and we remodeled as a vacation home. His sister and nieces live in Madison. We were in Sheboygan for his high school reunion (the BIG one)last summer.

We argue a lot about cheese: Wisconsin vs. Vermont...

Wait a minute. On second thought, that's not entirely true.

I formulate my opinions based on rational argument and logic. If I am presented with a better argument than my own, or if someone finds a flaw in my logic, I am willing to change my opinion.

All too often, people in this country arrive at mistaken conclusions, based on faulty logic and incorrect data. But these conclusions are not opinions; there is a difference.

I chose "other."

At one time, no one would DARE post anything on DU without a link or some kind of evidence to back them up.

Apparently, those days are gone. Or the link is to some opinion piece that doesn't have a shred of fact or reality in it.

Presenting "empirical evidence" is a lost art on DU. And it was the thing that drew me to DU in the first place, so many years ago. *sigh*

:evilgrin:

Well, you know the rest. :evilgrin:

... maybe it's broken.

what are you doing over here, I see you in the lounge all the time. In fact, this is a loungish kinda post. Plus, you usually bring the beer!

only if somebody calls me names or otherwise snarks at me

I'm willing to change my opinion when I'm wrong. I've been known to be wrong, lol.

I don't come to DU expecting to be schooled. I don't view DU as a bunch of people smarter, better educated, or more informed than I am. I come to DU expecting to find a group of partisans who care more about supporting their "team" than whether or not the "team" is right or wrong, expecting to hear partisan "talking points" repeated ad nauseum whether or not they are correct, expecting to hear all kinds of fallacies, expecting to hear all about whatever the tv and radio is saying, and to find a minority who DO put issues above all of that on their priority lists.

For the most part, I find DU to mirror Free Republic, the main difference being, not the level of discussion, but the team supported.

Thinking back over the last 7.5 years, I can remember a few times when I changed my opinion after talking to people at DU.

It's been at least 5 years, though.

:evilgrin:


*Yea, I know. I spelled it that way deliberately.

My opinions on human rights and civil rights are fairly well embedded and aren't likely to be changed.

On the other hand, if you want to discuss government policies on most anything else like taxes, jobs, education, health care, immigration etc, I may have strong opinions but I'm always willing to entertain and adopt new ideas.

the ideas and facts supplied by others. Gay marriage and late term abortion would probably be the most notable subjects to date. Educating yourself and listening to differing viewpoints is bound to increase your awareness of an issue and point out the errors in your thinking.

or more likely "why don't you losers admit my brilliance?"

Bryant

For I have changed my mind based on evidence MANY times. Three that I can remember, and I'm sure there are more.

The ultimate hypothetical for me.

This is deliberate manipulation of my mind and I do change my mind.

I post to be part of the DU community and my posts reflect my worldviews (anti-war, populist, pro-environment and so on).

Hopefully, others gain insight from my posts and don't feel as isolated in their worldview.

Once upon a time I believed that Obama was a Democrat and believed in democratic ideals and the rule of law.
Not anymore.

fundamentalists consider a willingness to change to be a
weakness.