Dangerous signs on the road

I have said in the past that IMHO we are heading to a hot civil war. Some people round these parts have made fun of the whole concept. Well just because you are unfamiliar with the process...

Anyhow we have crossed two more dangerous points on this road.

1.- A state is PLANNING to raise it's own militia. Ok, they have not actually VOTED on this, but Oklahoma does this... well then... we are getting states raising militias. Care to guess when in US History that happened last? You guessed it. The Civil War.

2.- The army now has active oathkeepers and Tea Baggers... again when did this happen before? You guessed it.

Now the parallels are becoming down right eerie, and well dangerous.

Of course we are having a birther Lt. Col that will probably face a General Court Martial and some time at ... Leavenworth.

Now the first one really raises my eyebrows and has my full attention. The process is well under way and each one of these things brings us ever so closer to the brink. If the state actually passes that legislation... well that is a MAJOR step in the wrong direction.

Oh and this does not mean you will see the blue and the gray fighting in battle lines ok... But we are definitely moving in the wrong direction...

I have seen a few fundie churchs giving their youth groups what appears to be paramilitary style 'fitness' programs led by ex military members.Couple these groups with organizations like blackwater and they could field an army fairly quickly and easily.

spigot and see how long they hold out. this from the state where the murrah building was.

will ahem stay, and some will take their equipment.

Secondly... tanks are not impossible to defeat... and hell's bells tankers need to come out sometime.

I know that we all like to think that all that tech will destroy a well committed enemy... well that worked very well in Nam... Iraq and it is working great in Afghanistan too. Just asked the Ruskies, I mean Kabul still flies the Soviet flag... oh wait the American one.

I am not trying to be fascitious, but worst case scenario it will NOT be blue on gray, but think more a full fledged terror campaign of ahem lone wolves.

The gasoline was lit by the hutaree group but the other militias didn't rise. they backed down and helped the FBI. It appears they are all pose and no guts. what is worrisome then is the lone wolf or small groups.

but we have had a few lone wolf incidents already... and I fear they are just going to go up.

Hopefully those will remain at the stage where most citizens will not be too concerned... or say... NAH this is nothing... to me the FBI will be doing it's job there.

The Oath-Keepers and similar groups. And do not forget mercenary companies like Blackwater.

alas it is not going to be lines of troops lined up.

You should read up on the James brothers...

For that matter, OKC is far closer to what you will see.

You think this will be regular armies facing each other? Now that is a funny joke. If we get to that point... you got at least two interested OUTSIDE parties helping...

Forget the image of conventional warfare. Think of the insurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan; or, heaven forbid, the civil war in Lebanon.

Prior to the Dick Act of 1903, every state had their own Militia. In 1903 the Federal Government adopted most of them as Federal National Guard troops provided they meet certain Federal Requirements (Mostly that the officers be appointed by BOTH the Federal and State Governments). Several states bulked at this for some of their Militia Units (All states did get most of their Militia to become Federal National Guard but in some states certain units did NOT become Federal National Guard Troops). In my home state of Pennsylvania we had Militia troops till the late 1950s that were 100% state funded (Most such units were 100% self-funded, these units had rich endowments built up over the decades since most were formed in the early 1800s). In the late 1950s Pennsylvania forced the last of these Militia Units to become National Guard Units, but such non National Guard units still exist in some other states.

Here is a list of States with State Militia independent of the US Army Reserved National Guard (The National Guard official name):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Defense_Forces#List_of_active_State_Defense_Forces

to defend the state from the Feds.

That was seditious talk.

By the way MOST of these states have them, but not active.. or are UNDER STRICT controls of the Guard, which can and is federalized at times of need.

Article II
Section 2.

The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States;

http://topics.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articleii

The Constitution trumps!
:hi:

I never knew Georgia had such a thing.
I noticed that all their headquarters are all in red areas.
Not good at all.
Thanks for the tip.I will certainly be checking this shit out.

Any identifiable 'enemy of the state' will be obliterated momentarily.

Ironic that the right-wing would be the 'terrorists' that they claim Obama is 'weak' on. Who knew they were talking about themselves?

and I know that people want to think that this will be taken care off momentarily.

Here is a hint, the US Military is starting to crack around predictable lines. That is a very bad sign. Oh and the same goes for oh Police Forces.

no trial involved. I just don't see people supporting a 'revolution' over, well, over nothing. Who's going to lead these fools? none of the current 'talkers' is anything like a leader - they'll bolt in a heartbeat when things get tough. I think isolated battles are all that would happen in the near term. If the response is mishandled or if the violence didn't dissipate within a period of time, then it might possibly escalate. Right now, there is no 'cause' for people to fight for - it's all just idle talk to rile people up.

if you are happy why would you revolt?

Think about that. Wars of this kind are started by a MINORITY... and these fools ARE that minority.

Will they be executed? Yes, hopefully AFTER a nice ride to a COURT ROOM and after they are TRIED and CONVICTED.

fascination with the civil war thats occuring lately.
Someones cooking up a real devils brew.

one of those critical anniversaries, 150 years... Alas I think the reason is different. Like many places in Europe where people are still fighting not the last war, but the one that happened 500 years ago... well people are still fighting the civil war,

ESPN stops transmitting and the Miller Genuine Draft runs out.

The truth is, I believe that you're correct. We're one significant event away from a civil meltdown. Imagine how the cities would burn if anything were to happen to President Obama. Increasing numbers of my Democrat friends are defecting to the Green Party with me. There is a general dissatisfaction with the status quo.

I saw a funny post by one of the DUers more popular with the status quo loyalists. It was a list of "rules" to follow if we are to have a proper civil war. Here's the truth about civil war: There are no rules. Nothing is safe. Nobody is safe. Nothing is sacred. Their genius, and their purity, is in the absolute rejection of everything that gives the status quo power and meaning.

Call in the coordinates? Technology and numbers don't matter. Look around the world. We've turned the entire planet into a battlefield, we're bankrupting this nation, we make ten "terrorists" for every one we kill, and look what we're fighting.

and in a worst case scenario I really don't want to think about it.

deal here.

who controls those forces.
If the command group is a bunch of riech wingers I would be worried.

The next time some loud mouth in whatever state is it says they want to secede, we need a
national poll by one of the majors right away with one question:

The Governor of ______ said he thinks his state should leave the union. Would you like to
see the state of _____ leave the union? Yes | No

You know what the result would be, Yes 70%.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out would be the best message ever to these fools.
It would let them know that the rest of us would be more than happy to get their ignorant
backsides out of the union, immediately. That shifts the playing field a good deal and
lets them know they're expendable. Go it on your own, by all means, please ... leave!

on the other hand, some of these idiots would GLADLY leave.

They'd find out that the money the send to Washington is returned to them with a premium. Send in a buck, get back a $1.25. Hard to maintain the roads, etc. with that hole in your fiscal pocket. Then
they'd find out what it's like to travel around this country as a "guest." Good Lard! Let them go,
deal with this, and the irate and furious segments of their populace that are pissed off to no end
at the idiocy. Interesting, eh;)

Because almost all the red states use more federal funding than they pay in taxes, so they would go right into the red ink if they cut ties.

And maybe 60% of the departing state have "intermittent blowhard disorder' (IBD) and think if they say something, it makes it so. But the real world consequences are not fun at all. I don't see this as sedition or rebellion. It's a choice. Wanna leave, adios. Of course, if California (my homeland;) does it, we're all in for a world of you know what. But that won't happen. It will be some semi
Tea Bag state that gets full of itself.

n/t

thanks. We lose the ability to communicate. That is when battle lines are drawn. We must search for some type of common ground. Wherever it is...

The state organized militias were federalized in the early 20th century, but some states have since re-established state militias (as state guard, state defense forces, etc.). Several did so around World War II. Illinois just reauthorized a state naval militia a few years ago, after Katrina. Michigan's Volunteer Defense Force was re-established five or six years ago as well. So this isn't unprecedented.

That's not to say that the situation in Oklahoma doesn't bear watching -- the aspect that is disturbing is that the impetus for this state militia comes directly from a radical anti-government faction. Most of the state militias that have been reorganized in recent decades have come about out of concerns that the national guard would be deployed, leaving a vacuum in the state in case of emergency.

Of course, they haven't really made any progress--no legislation has been introduced and support is hardly universal, even among Oklahoma republicans. Mary Fallin (who is running for governor) opposed it, and the chair of the state GOP also dismissed the idea. Of course, Fallin's opponent in the GOP primary, Randy Brogdon (who is currently leading in the polls) has supported it, but has recently couched that support in terms of an auxiliary force to the national guard, not as a militia meant to oppose the federal government.

look at WHO is behind this... the Tea Party.

Now that sent all kinds of bad vibes down my spine.

And at least in my view this is closer to oh 1859 than oh the California Defense Corp.

That would simply invite a lot of federal attention on the militia in the form of being watched by organizations like the ATF and the FBI to ensure that they aren't conspiring to blow up federal property or violating gun regulations like these Christian Hutaree militia clowns.

is that the two opposing side aren't as geographically divided now. We have red states and blue, but a lot of them are pretty evenly divided. Even individual families are more politically diversified now then they were then. I know some brothers fought against brothers in the Civil War but that would have been nothing like what we'd have today were we to have a civil war. I'd have to fight my brother-in-law and half my cousins. My brother-in-law would have to shoot his wife, my sister. I can't think of a family who wouldn't have members on both sides. I don't know, I can't imagine how it would happen. Not that I don't think there aren't a lot of nutbags who would like it to.

as well as the war of independence, which WAS a civil war too.

That's a characteristic of civil wars.

There would be house-to-house fighting in my neighborhood.

We'd probably become refugees. :(

does anyone here actually believe we, at DU, have better information and insight into these nutbags than our own FBI, CIA, or Homeland Security do?

All of what people see "happening" may indeed have happened just before the Civil war, but people forget a couple of relevant points here...

One: The FBI and CIA were only "born" during the early 20th Century. Homeland Security, well, we all know that story.

Two: Technology. The Internet. Centralized records and information. Files and dossiers on known troublemakers. Ways of finding out associates of these troublemakers.


True, we may not be able to stop ALL of them, but I do believe we can stop enough of them to take the wind out of the sails of the rest.


Seriously...our government may be stupid sometimes, but it's not THAT stupid as to allow an armed uprising or "civil war".

The FBI was born in the 1930s, to fight prohibition

The CIA is the child of the OSS, of WW II fame and part of the National Security Act of 1947... not quite early century. CIA and NSA do not have a legal ability to act in the United States, not even withe the pesky USPA... and quite frankly I want to keep them out.

As to the rest... yes and... when this happens, it might not even look like a civil war to you. Why? Most people expect a civil war to involve troops... if this one involves two armies I will eat my shoe, mostly out of shock.

Why? What you mentioned leads to CELL structure and Terrorist operations.

On Edit, the FBI has penetrated RW militias, but they also admit that lone wolves are a major threat.

Laugh at "a bunch of loons with guns" at your peril.

Article II, Section 2 states:

"The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states,..."

Obama would command any militia they choose to create and failure to follow his orders would be a criminal act under the UCMJ.

...civil unrest is inevitable. Our side and their side essentially "live" in separate realities that cannot co-exist.

Maybe after the ash finally settles, we can go back to beating each other to death with rocks and bones. :eyes: