What really happened to the Dixie Chicks?

Was their comment against George Bush :puke: during the run-up to the Iraq War the only thing that caused the boycott?
Was there more to the story?
:shrug:

"Just so you know, we’re on the good side with y’all. We do not want this war, this violence, and we’re ashamed that the President of the United States is from Texas."

There is a really great documentary about all this.

My cell ringtone is still "I'm not Ready to Make Nice". I'm not till the BushCo war criminals are behind bars. I think I'm going to be listening to that song for a long time.

For many reasons.

But after the incident I started listening to the DC's when they fought back with "Not Ready to Make Nice". They're very talented and I like their attitude.

When the previoius president made his statement he pretty much had the Dixie Chicks black balled.

If the Dixie Chicks went on stage today and said that they were ashamed George Bush was from Texas, nobody would give a shit. But in 2003 Bush's approval ratings were in the 60's and disagreeing with the Iraq War was being labeled as unpatriotic and treasonous by the right wing. George Bush was an idol to many people, particularly among the demographics that typically listen to country music and a large number of them were caught up in a jingoistic fervor throughout 2003 and 2004.

Things changed in 2005 when people finally started to realize that there was no end in sight to the Iraq War. Republican Congressman Walter Jones (the guy who changed French Fries to "Freedom Fries" in the congressional cafeteria) reportedly broke down crying in an apology for his behavior during those days and his support for the war. Then in the fall of 2005 Bush sat by while the Gulf Coast drowned and many more people started to realize that he wasn't the hero they thought he was.

The bottom line is that many good well intentioned people let their emotions get the better of them in the wake of 9/11, and Bush exploited their fear and their desire for vengeance to take the country into a war that had jack shit to do with 9/11. The Dixie Chicks spoke up at the height of all of this and they were eaten alive for it.

More to the point, they were vilified. Does that answer the question?

The country was divided then. The people that opposed the war, and there were millions of us, never had a problem with them, obviously.

Of the rest, a small but very vocal minority went on a crusade against the chicks and they got a few right wing media outlets, most notably Fox News and Clear Channel, to go along with the manufactured outrage and turn it into something greater. Clear Channel sponsored a boycott of their songs on some of their stations.


So, while the incident is an embarrassing reminder of just how insane things were in America back then, it isn't and has never been everything the righties would have us believe. It was a minority of people aided and abetted by a right wing media apparatus that caused most of the trouble for the chicks. And the chicks bounced back a few years later.

Some of us were first introduced to the Dixie Chicks during the kerfuffle and became big fans. Only the stupid shunned them.

Randi Rhodes once talked about how "the right" is given greater latitude as to what they can get away with. Randi was correct!

I still liked and agreed with them.

That and the fact that Bush and Lowry Mays of Clear Channel were college buddies (though at different schools). The "crush-the-Chicks'-CDs" events were sponsored by Clear Channel radio stations here.

Their Top of the World tour made more money than any other act in 2003. And in 2006(?), their "Not Ready to Make Nice" album won multiple Grammies. It is their most powerful album (I think).

Martie Maguire and Emily Robison have recently made a new album without Natalie. The music sounds great.

And I read that the Chicks are going to tour with the Eagles in 2010. Woo freaking hoo.

who made the following stupid mistakes...

1. They didn't know who was buying most of their albums

2. They mixed politics with business

Only a fool mixes politics and business. No matter how right you are, you are going to be at odds with around 1/2 of your potential customers. Now, if you have passed beyond the point of having 'fuck you' money to having 'fuck everyone' money, well than no big deal (Bono), if OTOH you don't have 'fuck everyone' money and still need to sell your product to succeed, well then one should keep one's mouth shut about politics and religion.

impact only if you are on the left politically.

if you stir in a politically volatile environment you will piss off those who disagree with you. Would you shop at a business which posted republican candidate posters on their building leading up to an election? I wouldn't either.

beyond caring if they lost sales, or based their success on the politics they were espousing. This is a case of a group who couldn't afford to piss off half (actually probably more than 1/2) of their fan base to state their opinion..this is the difference.

were treated like royalty.

The Dixie Chicks used their "Freedom of Speech" and they were vilified.

They made the mistake of not knowing what their fans were about.

Wonder if they had a problem w/ all the money they made on that tour and album.

And it's still impressive as hell!

they have no business whining like a teabagger when they state their opinion and never sell another album....cause and effect.

Never heard that. Link, please? And while you are at it, please post a link that shows that "Not Ready to Make Nice" didn't exist or win three Grammies in 2006 or sell, I believe it was, about 3 million copies.

about their lost sales? Maybe they have had some success since, but not before they took a dump in their nest/bit the hand that fed them, and regretted it. Tell me how many albums you would buy from a group who promoted Dick cheney as a hero even off the stage....I wouldn't buy any.

When they were interviewed on 60 Minutes, I believe it was, I heard Natalie TALK ABOUT what had happened, but WHINE I didn't hear, and knowing where she comes from, I doubt I will ever hear her whine.

side of the argument, no matter the issue at hand under debate.

Might be time to regroup, and try again. :thumbsup:

I had ask the poster to provide it earlier. I am not arguing with anyone--just trying to explain my position (which I don't believe is weaker than the other poster's) and comment on others' positions. It's just good manners to post a link when someone asks for factual substantiation.

:hi:

anything resembling a statistic or even a statement of fact? You provide a link for your opinion that is contrary to my opinion. I haven't responded to you, because I remember when this happened, I remember what my opinion was at the time, based on what I heard, essentially the same position I still hold.

Seems some people in this thread can only hear semantics and cant see shades of gray objectively.

You expressed an opinion, from what I opine to be heartless business-only point of view, which has, I believe, blinded you to the greater glory of this historical event. You continued to judge that the Chicks "whined" when, in the Sawyer interview, they merely answered her question of whether the event caused a loss of sales. They were shocked by the death threats and dwelled far more musing on what the fuck has happened to the America they grew up in, the same America not too terribly far from my house.

not the Chicks themselves, and now you continue it here at DU.

I bought my first CD of their's after the controversy, and PROUDLY made the purchase.:thumbsup:

and proudly bought Taking the Long Way when it was released.

My brother heard one of their songs, I loaned him the discs and he went out and bought them because he liked what he heard, and he's not a country lover by any stretch of the imagination.

Those that jumped on the Faux wagon were idiots. They knew who and what the "Dixie Chicks" were about.

This was about women who should know their place and they were punished.

The blackballing of the Dixie Chicks was no different then the Communist hunt and blackballing of Americans in the 1950's.

as of 2009. Five of them in 2007 alone. And as of 2009, they have sold over 30 million CDs. So I don't think the public in general were as supportive as you appear to be of the blacklisting of a musician for speaking her mind, for exercising her free speech rights.

Now, seven years after that disgraceful display of attempted censorship and blacklisting of an artist for speaking her mind, many of those who were so supportive of that war, realize how wrong they were. And the Dixie Chicks will go down in musical history as a group who stood for something more than just selling albums.

I had never heard of them when the controversy began. But I and many others went out and bought their CDs to show support for them. They did apologize for disrespecting the office of the president, but later retracted that apology, saying that Bush did not deserve respect.

They said in one interview, that they would prefer to have a smaller audience of people 'who get it', than the audience they would have if they played along, as YOU believe they should have. Money isn't everything, unless you're a rightwing, capitalistic, soulless fool, willing to support the killing of innocent people because of some kind of mindless, blind, cultlike patriotic fanaticism.

They are women with spirit and courage, and until now, I have never seen anyone on a progressive board call them foolish for taking a stand when so many others were too frightened to do so.

where have I ever said I don't like these people? I don't listen to their music because I am not into their genre, and simply have no interest in it. Should I be forced to listen or buy their albums? I didn't listen to them before or after. If they turned this incident from an initial PR nightmare into a profitable incident, good for them, that really is a testament to their quality, at the time though they strongly regretted what they said because it cost them.

My statement applies to ANYONE who is selling a product. I will ask you the same question I have asked others in this thread, but still haven't received an answer to, Would you buy, say, your gasoline for your car from a gas station whose owner plastered the place with repug campaign posters during an election? I wouldn't. And I would say the owner is an idiot for bringing politics into his apolitical business.

these women in their role of 'selling a product'. And, you seem to be saying that they were fools for risking their sales of that product by speaking out against an issue that affected every citizen in this country, including them. Sure, if all they cared about was selling a product. That was the problem back then, far too many did exactly as you say they should have, worried more about their sales, than about their principles. And because of their silence, we got eight years of Bush and are still fighting his wars.

Clearly they were stunned at first by the reaction to what was, after all, an off the cuff remark. They were at the top of the charts at the time, and obviouasly gave more credit than was due to their fan base. It took a little time to recover from the all out assault from people who, until that remark, were adoring fans.

They didn't like the war and they didn't like Bush. That is an opinion that any person, selling a product or not, has a right to hold and express without being threatened with their lives and businesses. And yes, their fans had the right to refuse to buy that product. They did not have the right to attempt to put them out of business or to threaten them with death.

What was totally wrong was when Clear Channel got involved and rather than reporting on the incident, led the attempt to censor them. The media is not supposed to get involved in a story the way they did. They announced the burning of their CDs which was what led to that witch-hunt-like frenzy.

They were slandered, called traitors and accused of supporting Saddam Hussein. They were threatened with death. Free speech clearly doesn't include libeling or slandering someone, many have found out that doing so is far from free. And there is no protection in the Constitution for issuing death threats. See what happens when someone tries and gets caught.

Hard as it is for free speech absolutists to accept, some forms of speech do not fall under the protection of the 1st Amend. And I doubt that was the intention of the FF. In fact that amendment was meant to protect Political Speech, the exact speech their attackers tried to silence, with many times, illegal speech, such as death threats.

As for your question, if I liked someone's music or any other product, and they made a remark that they did not respect a Democratic President and were against one of his policies, and that was it, no, I would not stop buying their product.

Your example doesn't match what the Dixie Chicks did. They made one remark, off the cuff and that's where it would have stayed had the rabid right-wing noise machine not gone into action.

If they had done what your example states, I would simply go somewhere else. But they didn't. Also, if anyone on my 'side' threatened to kill a business person because of a political position I disagreed with, I would stand up for his right to say what he said and would not be very happy with the people I seemed to be associated with.

My sister is a Republican, as is her husband. That doesn't stop me from going to dinner as their home. I accept the fact that people have a right to a difference of opinion, I do not accept threatening to destroy someone's business and their actual lives as any form of free speech. And that is why the Dixie Chicks ended up with a better audience, a more democratic audience, than the one they started out with which I'm sure they know now, they are better off without.

Now, what they did may not have been a good move from a marketing standpoint, due to their customer base, the fact is they expressed their opinion and stuck by it. I respect them for that.

To say that 'only a fool' would express a political opinion in music is just plain goofy, however. LOTS of musicians have expressed political views in and outside their music, and if anything, it has helped their careers.

If the Dixie Chicks had been an early alternative/indie rock band like R.E.M., or even alt-country like Steve Earle or Jay Farrar, they would have had no problem.

then act shocked that over 1/2 of their business disappeared overnight. I have no problem with what they said, where they said it, or who they said it to....I also don't want to hear their stupid whining after they chose to say something which cost them their careers...cause and effect as I said above

and it didnt' cost them their careers. they had their best selling album after this happened.

Whole Foods? or any other store owner who, say, plastered repub political posters all over the outside of his business? They have a right to free speech. they don't have a right to my or your money...see the difference. She would only be denied her free speech if she were jailed for what she said, she wasn't.

you keep saying they whined about lost sales. If you had seen the documentary about them, "Shut Up and Sing" you would have a better understanding what they went through.

It wasn't just lost sales, it was the level of vitriol aimed at them for speaking their minds, including death threats. All three of them had very young children at the time, and they lived in fear. There was one death threat that actually named a date and another that knew one of their home addresses.

If I stop shopping at Whole Foods (which I did) I don't also threaten the life of the CEO who I don't agree with. If anyone was whining like teabaggers, it was the Bush-apologists who went after Natalie and the other chicks for simply having an opinion.

because of the CEO's opinion. How is this different from the repugs who previously were the Chicks base who quit buying their product?

I, nor anyone else in this thread approve of 'death threats' or other threatening actions by the now teabaggers who did those things.

So you see, it is you who is missing the point. That point being, by all means make a stand, speak your mind, wear it proud, these are admirable things, just don't be surprised if doing these things costs you the support of those people who disagree with you. If you can't afford to loose the support of, say, 1/2 of those who hear your stellar proclamations then maybe you should keep them to yourself until you can afford to accept the fallout. That is all.

and then carried out. Not to broad brush the state, but I've seen in my own state, call people stupid, idiotic, etc., 'they had it comin' to them' for speaking out, and just leave it alone.

Hell, there were people in my state who were trying to justify the murder of Dr. Tiller, who threaten those of us who had peace marches/vigils in our community...I've seen it far too much and too often. Just let it go.

I decided a long time ago that their souls will be eaten up with their sanctimonious crap...leave them be.

coming from Tennessee and all...oh, wait..

I even mentioned the crazies in my state, and I really try to keep track of the crazies in my state...coming from TN and all, ....oh, wait....

Just their redneck fan base.

Let's see how this summer's tour does and come back to this.

they thought it did, and it appeared it would. Bet if they had it to do over they would have shut up and sung.

and call people who stood up for their rights to express themselves as Americans fools. You are woefully unaware of the music industry if you think that musicians never express their political opinion.

What happened here was nothing to do with their fan base. Country music stations received lots of positive requests for DC music. Music industry big wigs and big pocket advertisers threatened the stations. You go ahead and put your financial well-being ahead of your behavior, but I think the real story was the number of left leaning country musicians who cowered instead of standing up for the rights they sing about.

By your reasoning all of the founding fathers were fools when they signed the Declaration of Independence. It could have cost them not only their wealth, but also their lives. Those foolish, foolish people.

which is one of the hardest things to do in the music world of genres! Instead off being stuck in just the idiot country music yahoo, good old boys & girls, NASCAR - Dukes of Hazard lame brains Texas glittery, phony numb-sculls ...They proved this after they crossed over with their record breaking tours and multi platinum albums and critically positive reviews awards and grammies....Cheers to the performers who say what they feel, the truth, and still make tens of millions of dollars and the dough is still rolling in.

Certainly not at the level they would likely be if they had kept their mouths shut, performed their music, and went home. Instead they chose to go all activist. Fine. They just have no reason to complain and cry that they couldn't sell records after that...and if they did win, well good for them.

why the hate for the Chicks?

I just think entertainers are selling a product. If one is selling a product, one tries not to piss off 1/2 of one's potential customers.

What a stupid analogy....as if they kept their moth shut they would be popular today how in the fuck do you know that?

I do know that they were rising stars in their genre and this one incident threw them back to step 1. Now it could be it turned out well for them, at the time it wasn't what they intended to do and it was a predictable result based on the demographics of their fan base.

You seem uninformed, unctuous... are you sure you're at the right site?

if you went to say a gas station and found there were repub posters pasted all over the front of the building during an election, you would continue to do business there?

"Ain't No Son" by the Court Yard Hounds (2/3 Dixie Chicks)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-34b9nA6oc

when I went to the Top of the World tour? There were a bunch of those folks there and a bunch more like me to answer them.

Natalie is an incredibly talented, spiritual, and kind person. I think she truly regrets speaking her mind that day. She was grieved to find out that their fan base were such horrible people. She took that grief and made a LOT of money writing the songs for the next album.

If a newer band which you are interested suddenly made teabagger statements would you quickly loose interest and quit supporting them? I would. Would that make me a horrible person? Everyone has a right to vote with their feet and their billfold, as it should be.

I get your point. My boyfriend and I were recently looking to buy a car. We went into one of the smaller dealerships in the area. Almost immediately we were greeted with some pretty heavy duty repuke crap, as well as a few "wink-wink, nod-nod" type racist comments. Needless to say, we were out of there like our shoes were on fire.

In retrospect, I would have appreciated a bunch of repuke signs posted in the windows; at least we wouldn't have wasted 7 minutes of our time by getting out of the car in the first place....

They had a limited audience before all this happened, people who were not into country western music had never heard of them. Now their audience is far broader and they have been very successful with their CDs, and their documentary.

It seems though, that you place more importance on commercial success than on principles. And they did not cry or complain, they fought back. You are repeating rightwing propaganda about them. You need to educate yourself.

They clearly decided that no amount of financial profit was worth selling your soul for. You apparently feel differently.

And, they did not 'go all activist'. One member of the group stated that she was against the war in Iraq and was ashamed that George Bush came from her home state. That was it. 90% of the world agreed with her. She got a standing ovation in London, and today would no doubt get a standing ovation here for the same comment. Before that remark, as they have said, they could hardly tell the difference between a Democrat and a Republican. She stated an opinion, a correct one as it happens, and the censors in the U.S. went to work.

put words in my mouth. Principles are great if you can afford to have them. The old "I'm going to do this or that as a matter of principle" is a stellar position, it won't however, put food on the table or pay the gas bill. I can believe anything I want, the minute I begin espousing my beliefs to my customers I may not see them again. That is me exercising my rights and them exercising theirs, that is all I have said throughout this thread.

Hard to say whether they would have done better by keeping quiet. Nobody knows. They lost support in the south, but opened it up in other parts of the country.

They didn't whine. Maybe you're not used to that kind of twangy singing. (I know; I'm originally from New York.)

--imm

Tell me how many typical country acts have three women and play banjos, stand up base and violens?

I was a huge fan of the Dixie Chicks before and after this debacle. They were not "typical" and they will never be "typical".

I always liked them myself. Was always impressed by their musicianship.

I can't name any offhand, but I'm sure we can find lots of all female groups, that play instruments, and sing, maybe even some good ones. There's lots of talent out there.

But if someone asks, "Who are the Dixie Chicks?" What would you say?


--imm

I apologize if I came off that way.. :)

I would say that their music is not country or even pop, more singer, songwriter-ish. :shrug:

I tend to follow groups that are hard to categorize.

--imm

All three girls were incredibly talented as musicians, singers, and songwriters. Natalie comes from platinum grade musician stock, her father being a well-known producer and mentor for some of the best acts in Texas, but who would never sell out his talents to a big record company. Instead, he taught other musicians here to develop, manage, and produce their own visions, sans record company suits and corporate bullshit, and still at a livable wage.

The Chicks were literally worshipped by young girls because they are astoundingly talented, crap, ladies. They really are. Moms wanted their girls to emulate their grace, talent, beauty, compassion and kindness and brought their daughters in big groups to see their concerts, and continued to do so after the event.

I didn't mean to dis your "girls." I agree with everything you say. Always did.

So, if I asked you, "Who are the Dixie Chicks?" You'd skip all Bush that stuff? Interesting.

--imm

Probably would skip it, unless someone needed to know.

They ARE "my girls"! They came under my wing when those fucks mistreated them. All my right-wing relatives got Chicks CDs for Christmas that year. :evilgrin:

anyone who reads my posts throughout this thread, objectively, would find that I have no axe to grind with these people at all. That I agree with them. This entire subthread is based on what I didn't say, or imply, or espouse, but what people believe I think, which is far from reality....amazing..

Natalie made an inappropriate comment and the warhawk listeners never forgave her. Not very Christian of them.

And it didn't turn out too bad for them (other than receiving death threats from some of right-wingers, most of whom I feel certain go to church). The girls are home raising their babies and because of their faux pas, have a whole new fan base.

but I got so sick of hearing them whine about lost sales. Free speech isn't free, it can cost you your job, your friends, and your respect. Nobody said they didn't have a right, or that what they said wasn't true, only that it cost them and it was their own fault.

Your level of emotion here seems a bit over the top? Just asking since I don't remember the whining from the Dixie Chicks, though I do remember * fanatics like that Toby guy and Reba whatserface whining about the Dixie Chicks.

just always surprised when people trying to sell something becomes publicly and intentionally politically divisive, then acts surprised that they have lost 1/2 of their business.

Throughout this entire thread you have not simply said your piece, you have deliberately tried to piss people off as much as possible while doing it. You are part of the reason the internet is such a cesspool when it comes to civilized discussion. What are you trying to accomplish anyway? Why don't you try to tone it down a notch or two?

deleted. I made a 1 paragraph statement which apparently several people viewed as an attack on the ideals of the Dixie Chicks. It was no such thing and I challenge you to quote me being in anyway disparaging of their message. I have only stated over and over that people whose business depends on the sale of a product to the public should keep their politics out of it unless they are willing to or intend to disenfranchise 1/2 of the population. That's it.

As for the internet being a "cesspool when it comes to civilized discussion", I don't think you understand the meaning of the words "civilized discussion" if you are accusing me of not being civilized in this thread. Are you saying that my view point differing from yours makes me uncivil? It isn't my job in life to be gentile to your very sensitive sensibilities. I would offer that you are in a POLITICAL FORUM, by definition there will be people here with opinions differing from yours.

and accused them of whining about lost sales.

That's not civilized. My husband didn't say that you were not being civilized because you don't agree with him. He said it because you are not being civilized and just trying to push buttons. A primer on civilized opinions:

1. I don't think the Dixie Chicks realized what kind of firestorm they were going to set off. To me, that's not very smart. (civilized opinion)

2. They were idiots and I'm sick of hearing them whine about lost sales (not civilized)

Get the picture?

feel free to tippy toe around, that isn't what Natalie did which you (and I guess your spouse) believe was stellar, yet not so stellar if you disagree. It isn't my intention to state my opinion without offending anyone, nor was it theirs, nor is it possible...YMMV..."Get the picture" is a rude thing to say in this context, my feelings are hurt, I'll wait right here for your apology.

From your response, I'll take it that your answer is "no".

Semantics make all the difference in the world.

In effect you admit that you were rude.

and I don't care...

Reminds me a non-abusive parent of an abused child I once interviewed. This abused child was, when I was hired, charged with a slew of not too severe but very damaging for a kid type charges for property crimes. The parent told me that s/he had argued with the child earlier because the child said the word motherfucker and fucked. After I heard this, maybe 10 minutes later in the interview, I asked what exactly the kid said which included the words motherfucker and fucked. The parent said, that the kid had said, "you let that motherfucker live here even though you knew he fucked Adam (another relative).

Get it?...I didn't think so. You see, the mother ignored the point the kid was making about this relative literally fucking another relative, which is exactly what the relative ultimately did to the kid, which led to the kid loosing his mind and committing these property crimes...the mother was too preoccupied with the kid's language and disregarded what was said....Now do you get it?

Aside from that, you post is just a load of misdirection and obfuscation. You seem to sieve every post through your own twisted filter of rationalization. (Just asking, but would you label yourself a libertarian? It would explain a lot.)

As for getting it. I get what you are trying to do, but I don't think you are so dumb that you really think that little story has anything at all to do with the thread or the OP. It does give you the opportunity to use the word fuck a lot.

I think you realize what you're being called on and are just tossing out posts to cover yourself. Why would you care?

However, in the off chance that you really don't understand, try this. The DC voiced an opinion about george. It got blown up by the right wing media and the tea baggers in training started spitting blood. There was a furor for a short while. The concerts that the DC had planned went off fine for a while. Some of the knuckle draggers in their fan base pitched a fit, but mostly ticket sales were fine. Then ClearChannel and it's ties to bush.org started laying on the radio stations that they mostly control and got the DC songs banned. Most stations said they got complaints if they played a DC song. A few DJ's were honest and said that the word really came from upstairs not over the phone. The Chicks were told to shut up and sing. Then in the best tradition of American values, they said no way. They complained about the death threats and the corporate games that shut them out of the loop.

You might ask yourself why you chose the words "fool" and "whine" so often. A misogynist is someone who might use the term "whine" to define the complaints of women when they don't use it to define the complaints of men. Have you ever found yourself complaining about all the "whining" of those "fools" Jefferson, Adams, and the others who stomped their foot and risked their lives and livelihood with their complaints. If you don't call these men whiners, there may be some reason.

Were you fans of the DC before Maines statement? Are you a fan of the genre? I know some people complained about the DC whining. Toby Keith did. O. And george did too.

It doesn't mean what you think it does. There was no whining. These tough women owned what they said, refused to apologize and took their lumps. They could have come out and apologize and grovel before the redneck fans but they didn't. All artists should have the courage these women did. The same people who trashed them for joking about the President coming from Texas are the same ones questioning Pres Obama's legitimacy now - they're redneck hypocrits and the Chicks are better off without having to cowtow to morons. Someone asked for a link to their whining - I'd like to see it also because I think you're full of shit.

I'd say a third.

do you have a problem with that?

I have a problem with her speaking her mind then whining over the consequences, that's all.

jesus christ- why do you hate them?

she told the truth. I consider that admirable. They were not political at all, that was the problem. One member of the group, who was very young at the time, answered a question honestly and the rightwingnuts went insane. They were stunned by the reaction because they had not realized how insane the country had gone. They thought they lived in a democracy. Shame on them. If only our politicians were as honest.

Interesting that you would want someone to lie for money. What I admire about them is that they put principles above money and in the end, it all worked out for them. They received death threats from CHILDREN. But they refused to lie just to sell their music. I do not consider that foolish, I consider it brave and admirable. They learned a lot about the country they thought they lived in after that. And they were RIGHT.

The problem with this country, especially at that time, was NOT the Dixie Chicks refusing to lie and pretend they liked one of the worst presidents ever, it was with those who did not support them, who did not speak out and we now are dealing with the results of that cowardice.

I have said in this thread that I didn't disagree with them. They have every right to say or think what they want.

I never suggested they should have lied about anything, only that if they were not prepared for the consequences of stating their opinion then they shouldn't have said anything.

Another great aspect of freedom is the ability to choose not to support those who you disagree with and not being arrested for saying anything you wish with few exceptions.

boards at the time this happened. Like the Dixie Chicks I was threatened with death and being turned in to Homeland Security for basically saying the same thing they said. I was told by rightwingers, exactly what you just said about how 'freedom works'. Iow, in their attempt to defend their censorship of the Dixie Chicks, they used the same arguement. 'Sure they are free to say what they want, and then they have to accept the consequences'.

They had every right to express their disagreement with that war. Artists don't lose their citizenship or their 1st Amendment rights just because they are famous. What happened to them was frightening to anyone who remembers that period and was indicative of just how bad things had become in this country. That is why so many people who had never heard of them before, went out and bought their CDs. It was not so much because of them, but to protect their rights, and our own when they were so much under attack.

In fact, there was no better time or reason for people to speak out as that dark period in our history, and if people like them, and all of us who continued to speak out, even with the threats, had NOT, things would have been a lot worse than they were. That was the goal, to scare everyone else by using people like them as an example of what could happen if you didn't shut up and get on board. Even on forums we were participating on, people privately wondered if they should just be quiet, but in the end most decided that the more people who continued to speak out, the harder it would be to silence people, that there is strength in numbers.

I am proud of them, I cannot imagine how scared they must have been. I know I was scared just from the threats I received in PMs but they were performing publicly and had to have police protection. That was a disgraceful period in our history, and it was people like them who did not give in who helped show the bullies that it was not going to be as easy as they thought to silence the whole country, and to begin to fight back. You may not realize it, but they are owed a great debt of gratitude for being part of the fight against the effort to silence dissent.

that censorship and 1st amendment rights can only be applied/violated by government, it doesn't apply to your neighbor, your employer, your friends, or the public in general? Did the chicks get arrested when they got back to the US? Were they questioned or investigated? If so, I heard nothing about it.

If they took lemons and made lemonade, good for them...that too is a great aspect of freedom. Just don't conflate public response with some sort of rights violation. The use of the word "censorship" implies some sort of government action.

Artists don't lose their citizenship or their 1st Amendment rights just because they are famous.

Show me where anyone has said such a thing in this thread. Which government agency tried to revoke their citizenship or strip them of their 1st Amendment rights? The difference being of coarse, that artists have no right to anyone's money, that must be freely given. A failure on the part of the public to give their money in exchange for the product being produced, for what ever reason, doesn't constitute any sort of rights violation or censorship.

He was forced to go live in Europe because of his political stance, effectively exiled.

"Artists don't lose their citizenship or their 1st Amendment rights just because they are famous." Bullshit. They certainly have before and if Bush had his way, I am sure he would have gladly done it to the Dixie Chicks as well.

And if they are not actually sent away, artists have been hassled by the government for their politics plenty of time in this country.

the Dixie Chicks, not Paul Robeson, or the McCarthy hearings, nor did I ever state that it has never happened. The Dixie Chicks were not, to my knowledge, admonished, investigated, charged, or harassed by the US government because of what they said. A significant portion of their fan base were offended and quit giving them their money. Do I agree with that portion of their fan base? Again, for the hundredth time in this thread, no I don't. Do I believe that their fan base had the right to quit supporting them based on what was said? Yes I do. This is really very simple, don't try to make it something it isn't, and don't put words in my mouth. I didn't make the quote you attributed to me, notice the bold in my post? That generally on DU indicates a quote of another poster which is what I was doing.

Boy howdy, when the idiot CEO of Whole Foods opened his stupid pie hole, people all over DU immediately called for a boycott of Whole Foods. I didn't shop there before, but I certainly wouldn't now. How is that different?

a citizen, that is censorship. And that is what happened with Clear Channel. There are many ways for politicians, like Bush eg, to use their 'friends' in the media to censor their critics without doing it themselves. They did not just report the controversy, they led it.

The media, Clear Channel in this case, has a license to operate and is supposed to respect the public airways they are using. Once they involved themselves, it became censorship. And their license should have been revoked, but of course it was not. They were friends of the President. That's close enough for me to call what happened to them, censorship.

even Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon lost gigs over this but they did it any way.

and I didn't hear either of them crying over the complaints of those who disagreed. I like them both, but they can be penalized by the public through refusal to buy their product or complaints to their sponsors for what they say just like Mel Gibson can and was penalized for his stupid rantings.

I agree that everyone should have the right to do and say what they wish as long as it doesn't cross the few established limitations on free speech, but free speech doesn't apply to repercussions from the private sector for saying what you will, nor should it, nor could it be enforced if it did. This is all I am saying.

which I believe is in "Manufacturing Consent" where he is talking about other actors who came to him and told him they could not speak out in public against the war. He called it "a dark time" in our history. (The doc was just on over the weekend but so was "Orwell Rolls in his Grave" so I'm not 100% sure which film the clip is in.)

In a way, punishing those two was used to shut up a lot of other people in that community. We were in Santa Monica at the time and working in entertainment. So, yeah, they could afford it but it had a chilling effect on people who couldn't. But, that's probably the way these situations always work. I caught all kinds of hell for putting up notices of actions on our web site and pissed off at least one booker. That's just the way it goes.

Obama is facing some vile opposition and no one is paying for it yet opposition to Bush could end your career?
:wtf:

There are freaks out there threatening the president but Cindy Sheehan got arrested for wearing a t-shirt that had the names of our casualties in Iraq.

When do we see justice?

So brave, waving their peace symbol fingers at the camera on the carpet at one of the awards shows. So much courage. Such an inspiration.

Who knows how much all that pressure cost their relationship.

Last I checked their last album still sold pretty well. I saw their concert in Philadelphia and the venue was sold-out. And they won a ton of grammies for that last record.

They are now touring the The Eagles.

Doesn't seem like idiots to me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_Chicks

In 2006, Taking the Long Way was the ninth best-selling album in the United States. At the 49th Grammy Awards Show on February 11, 2007, the group won all five categories for which they were nominated, including the top awards of Song of the Year and Record of the Year, both for "Not Ready to Make Nice", and Album of the Year, for Taking the Long Way. Maines interpreted the wins as being a show of public support for their advocacy of free speech.<77> It had been 14 years since an artist had swept those three awards.<78> After the Grammys, Taking the Long Way hit #8 on Billboard 200 and #1 on the country album charts and "Not Ready to Make Nice" re-entered the charts at #4 on the Billboard Hot 100. The music video for "Not Ready to Make Nice" was nominated for the 2007 CMT Music Video Awards in the categories of Video of the Year and Group Video of the Year, but did not win.<79> The group was nominated for the 2007 Country Music Association's award for Top Vocal Group, but lost to Rascal Flatts.<80> After a brief hiatus, it was announced on the Court Yard Hounds website in March 2010 that they would be touring with The Eagles as the Dixie Chicks, confirming the return of Natalie Maines.<81>

today is so bland.

With few exceptions, there is no substantial, authentic point of view to much of it, just a boring, gooey center desigend to appeal to the lowest common denominator of as many demographic groups as possible.

I saw Neil Innes (used to be with Monty Python, the Rutles, etc.) last night and was blown away by his intelligence, wit, and definite POV in his music and stories. Of course, he's not going to have anywhere near the success some have achieved (not that he seems to care), but I got so much more out of his one performance last night than I have from most of the "superstars" so many fawn over today.

With that said, I also have to say that even big writers, singers, etc., whom I love can be aware of the market and prefer not to cross lines that will affect sales. I'm a big Mark Twain fan, but even as outspoken as he was, he decided not to develop a scathing essay he wrote against lynchings in the South into a longer book because he was concerned it would harm his overall sales in the South.

in fact I have a certain admiration for people who stand up for their principles regardless of the cost. I just don't expect to hear them complain, not even once, about the consequences of that position.

I haven't stated here in this thread, and the only thing I would like to add to even my very first post here, and that is these were what I consider kids at the time. Kids make mistakes. These kids had a lot of payrolls depending on their continued success. The minute this happened and the back lash started coming in the spin machine spun out of control...things were undoubtedly said and acts were performed to try to minimize the damage. As when this happens in politics or anywhere else, the truth usually comes out and it didn't even resemble the facade put up as an initial screen.

(then) Young made many a political tune/statement. They weren't shunned then, nor are they now. They did "Fuck You" and many loved it...and still do.

imagine how popular Crosby and Co. would have been if they had espoused a pro Vietnam position at Woodstock. How would it effected them?

Also, some artists make their fortunes by being political and directing their marketing at only their political demographic (rush, Jon Stewart, Bill Maher)...ultimately you better not piss off your demographic.

and they got 5 Grammys after that for "Taking the Long Way Around"..not to mention their "Shut Up And Sing" was phenomenol!

And, they're touring with the Eagles in 2010.

http://www.dixiechicks.com/splash.html

Art isn't supposed to be about an audience. Art is about truth. Art is what you do even if NOBODY is listening or watching. I'm personally not a huge fan of the Chix but I DO believe they make art.

Now if you're talking about sales bullshit (which I do) then yes your right. I avoid politics and religion like the plague. I just REFUSE to talk about it, no matter how provoked. But art is more than business.

But seriously, it had a lot to do with the timing.

Consolidation of Corporate Media was before the FCC and Congress back then. Clear Channel, Citadel et al, were looking for a quid pro quo. They had Dubya's back while Dubya and the GOP did their bidding in relaxing regulations on media ownership rules.

No doubt they were already politically predisposed to supporting Bush and the GOP anyway. And as mentioned in another response Bush and Lowry Mays of Clear Channel were college buddies.

President with treason. They seem to have no trouble with criticism of President Obama.

That's why I added the -- But seriously.

for the album they released after this incident that included the song 'Not Ready to Make Nice"

you should rent "Shut up and sing" its a great documentary

Not much else to tell.

Emily and Martie did an album of their own, but here's the latest tour info.

http://dixiechicks.com/06_pressDetail.asp?newsID=684

The band took a break it didn't "break up". THen Natalie didn't want to record, but the full line-up is going on tour in June co-billed with the Eagles.

Gained respect, won awards and critical acclaim, and still made a ton of money. Not bad.

I think that pretty much sealed their fate!

I'm just so accustomed to nudity on RS's cover...

Just like how the naked women were presented by peta, nothing says "take me seriously" like an presentation of naked women with handfulls of boob.

"Earl's Gotta Die" was a pretty cool song, but this is by far thier best work.

nude what else could change mankind in a more disturbing way. I have dreamed of Natalie Maines naked.

Next question.

this was after they had been dropped by Sony (I think)

:applause:

I"m going to have to get some tickets!

their free speech rights. It was a collaborative effort by some of the large media conglomerates that own radio stations such as clear channel.

edgy political statements. As others in this thread pointed out, they pissed off their fan base (pop-country lowbrows) with their comments.

If you want to talk like Steve Earle, play like Steve Earle.

actual musicians and songwriters in a genre where most of it is professionally engineered, test-marketed, regurgitated pablum. Not to say that they didn't have a pop sound in a lot of their songs, but they WERE musicians. Country music has taken such a nose-dive in the years since the Chicks were on the radio, I am actually nostalgic for the 90's country scene. Taylor Swift, Carrie Underwood, Rascal Flatts--God help us. :puke:

The Erwin sisters, along with Robin Macy and Laura Lynch, had local success in North Texas as an all-girl "roots" group, but they parted ways over roots-vs-pop when managers and A&R people started taking interest. The only way they were going to jump to a national stage was as a pop group (Allison Krauss had taken the girl bluegrass slot), and with the addition of Natalie they became a trio with a backing band rather than the self-contained quartet in which they'd paid their dues.

They were huge before the "comment," but their audience was very much mainstream country-pop. I agree with you that the groups you mention are bland and pale, but the 'Chicks became famous not for their instrumental abilities (sort of a novelty like Barbara Mandrell), but for their total package: writing, playing, singing, and looking sexy.

of their success. Most of their fans didn't care that they were the real deal as far as being able to create and play their own music--that's the way it's been for country music, for decades. Country music consumers just want a pretty face and a market-tested sound.

such as Dierks Bentley, Craig Morgan, Trace (confederate son) Adkins, Blake Shelton, Montgomery Gentry, Darryl Worley, Zac Brown, etc....
In all cases, their hit records are songs about the good 'ole' days and the wonders of small towns and the corruption of the diverse world(which is only implied).

and the other great sentimental singers and songs, it's a lie: Only the facade is there, the xenophobia and anti-intellectualism without the substance.

in any form/capacity/extent, I do not wish well.
Did I mention that I find Reba to an ugly POS, Howdie Doody look alike?

I never related the two. Thanks!

Toby Keith Bush brown nose suckface misogynist is the one I would like to see fall on his ass. What a shit.

But that should be obvious.

Dierks Bentley, Craig Morgan, Trace (confederate son) Adkins, Blake, Montgomery Gentry, Darryl Worley, Zac Brown, etc = "The CS of KKK"

Edit: "CS" means Confederate States

So you know these guys huh? Wrong. I personally know three of the people you mention and not one of them is a racist. Before you go out slandering people you might want to get to know them first. However I will say that those Mongomery Gentry guys are idiots.

While I can't talk in a post about how or why I know them (freepers have tried to cost me my job on more than one occasion because of something I posted here) I'd be happy to PM you if you want to know the truth about some of the people you mention.

Also, after the Dixie Chicks boycott, I am inclined to give as little room as possible to the country "music" community.
The fact that they gave forgiveness to a wife beater (Tracy Larwence) but no the the Chicks is telling as to who they are.
Good day now.
:hi:

I don't know Tracy Lawrence and I don't know his story but I do know that you have no idea what you are talking about. While country music is full of wingnuts, it's also full of good decent people who want the same things as we do. But don't let that get in the way of you talking shit about people you have no clue about.

And forget about the offer to let you in on the truth, you have already made up your mind and prejudged those people you listed. Nothing I say will change that. Good day to you as well.

I am willing to look at it, if you have it.

and judging from your posts you have already made up your mind, but if you really want to see what these people are like, if you really want to know send me a PM, with the city you live in. If we are coming to your town this year(which we probably are) I'd be happy to hook you up with tickets and a backstage tour where you can meet some of these horrible KKK members for yourself. You certainly wouldn't be the first DU'er to be surprised by what they saw on a country tour.

For the record, I see Tim and Faith as decent.
But any "artist" who joined the beat up the Dixie Chicks bandwagon has already given me enough evidence to judge them.

I can't do much better than that. Either way it's a chance to meet another DU'er and see a free show. ;) And I have done this for other Du'ers if you are worried I am scamming you or something I can put you in touch with someone who can vouch for me and my gig.

*yeah thats the ticket* and I DEMAND tickets and backstage passes to all their shows in order to umm... educate.. myself. Yeah that sounds good.

except for Bentley, perhaps. And Brad Paisley, and Keith Urban (both Paisley and Urban being very good guitarists).

Urban isn't really country in any sense, instrumental style or lyrical.
This is why I listed the artists in question. I did not want to paint a broad brush against all of them even if I am NOT a fan.

ashamed that Bush was from Tx where she was from and got us into the war.

Clear Channel bought a lot of radio stations when restrictions on ownership was loosened. A lot of them had a country music format. CC is very right wing.

They wouldn't allow their stations to play the Chick's songs or at least they strongly discouraged it. The Dixie Chicks would have had problems anyway, but CC made it much harder for them.

See Video of their song Landslide. (ignore opening ad) http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ez6y_dixie-chicks-landslide_music

That's one good, well written song, whatever your musical taste.

And they stood up against the Bush/Iraq war when most of America (and much of their country audience) were fooled.

I'm angered by some of the posts above that question their musicianship or dismiss their outspokenness as "stupid marketing."

If you don't recognize genuine heroes when they appear, I am sorry for you.

the DC did a great cover of it, though.

Come on, I know I'm not the only one.

:7

Ever listen? Hear the poetry in the lyrics? Check out Taking the Long Way. I became a HUGE fan after the event. I liked them okay before, but not being a big CC fan, didn't pay a lot of attention. If you ever have a chance to see them, I would. You will be entertained by their mastery of their instuments. And if you EVER have the chance to see Natalie's dad, Lloyd, I would.

By taking the long way
Taking the long way around
Taking the long way
Taking the long way around

I met the queen of whatever
Drank with the Irish and smoked with the hippies
Moved with the shakers
Wouldn't kiss all the asses that they told me to

No I, I could never follow
No I, I could never follow

It's been two long years now
Since the top of the world came crashing down
And I'm getting' it back on the road now

:)

Yes, I've listened -- I don't throw out opinions about stuff I don't know. I flat-out don't like them. Their voices grate on me and their music is unengaging to me. I know people love 'em, but I'm the one in the back, rolling my eyes whenever their name comes up.

Maybe some nice arcane jazz?

Good one!

I admire those women for many reasons, first being their musicality and talent. Then all that courage. Talent and courage, my favorite traits and those women are rolling in both. Unlike many here, I have no problem hearing good music that is country, and the Chicks have served up some great songs. They also worked up the hard way, on the road hardcore. They are self made, not created product as some here seem to think.
If they were men, it would be easier for some to see their excellence and thank them for what they did when the nation was delusional and as it so often does, it came down to musicians and that whole lot to finally take a stand that got heard. They rose up a stink when we needed a stink.

I did a show with them ( pre-Natalie by several years) when they were ,as you say, working their way up, on the road....1992 New Mexico State Fair. my band alternated sets with them. They were so unknown ( here anyway; they were starting to be known in Texas) that we, a local blues band, weren't even their opening act; we just literally alternated sets for an afternoon, and this wasn't even the Fair's main stage. I got to hang out with them quite a bit that day ( and unsuccessfully, but only half-heartedly , hit on Laura, the one eventually replaced by Natalie). They still were more electric bluegrass and very cowgirl looking; in fact the band's full name was the Dixie Chicks Cowgirl Band. And they dressed that way too; blue jeans, cowboy boots etc...way before the glam look. Anyway, as soon as they started playing , we knew they were something special, and I wished I'd kept in touch with them after that. They are the real deal; great, accomplished musicians, who also sing beautifully. They were just as nice and friendly as could be (of course, I'd hoped it would get a LITTLE FRIENDLIER with Laura; oh well...) and obviously intelligent, dedicated young women. They've earned every bit of success they've had, and I am extremely proud and honored to say I knew them, even just for one day.



The Chicks, back in the day:

Then they didn't back down. That's about as crammed with traditional American values as it gets.

they rock because they took a stand. Sometimes things are just so wrong some artists say fuck 'shut up and sing'. The whole London comment is what got me to give them a serious listen. They're beautiful, musically and as human beings.