Catholic Church ostracizing nuns who supported Health Care Reform

Bishop Lawrence Brandt of the Catholic Diocese of Greensburg has declared that religious sisters from communities whose leaders endorsed the final version of the national health care reform bill can no longer promote their recruitment events in his parishes or in the diocesan newspaper.

"He has the right to disapprove a request from a religious community that wants to host a recruitment event when that community has taken a public stance in opposition to the Church's teaching on human life," said diocesan spokesman Jerry Zufelt.

"Furthermore an environment of dissent and public opposition to the positions of the U.S. Catholic bishops does not provide an appropriate seedbed for vocations."



Read more: http://www.postgazette.com/pg/10106/1050840-59.stm#ixzz0lVbQcDu9

and they are in demand.

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participated in a conspiracy to protect felonious acts committed by its members.

Their behavior in Illinois was a travesty. Shredded docs, hidden priests, lost evidence, missing witnesses, lies under oath. That was the norm, not the exception.

You don't know that he "buttfucked" ANYONE..or even "covered up".

I may get heavily flamed, but I don't care...I dislike this authoritarian move by the Bishop (although I expect it in the Church) -- but you don't know that he's guilty of any "pedophile" offense.

Please keep in mind that, sickening as the pedophilia is, Indpendent monitors, yes those OUTSIDE the church, estimate that only six percent of priests abuse..Is six percent TOO MUCH?...Yes..One is "too much"....BUT -- It does leave Ninety Four percent innocent, doesn't it?.

Flame away.

you may be right that only 6% were active, practicing, serial pedophiles. It could be more, it could be less. As big of the problem is how the entire church organization reacted.

In the 1950s, when the first allegations were made public, the church shamed, threatened, even blackmailed the victims and their families.

in the 1970s, when it came out again, the church transferred priests, denied it ever happened, lost documents, and lied.

in the 1990s, it tried the same approach, but it was caught with its pants down. People were less trusting and less believing and the church eventually paid billions in war reparations.

now, in 2010, it again is stonewalling and hiding information, despite its proclaimed new leaf, cooperation with civil authorities.

Their practice, at least in my lifetime, has been criminal, consistent, and reprehensible.

If I didn't have a piece of the litigation (I dealt with the church's excess carriers) I would not have known just how corrupt and evil the entire church was.

are the churches "excess carriers"?

Please keep in mind that when you say "the entire church" you indict every priest, nun, bishop, etc. in the church is "evil"...and that is flat-out ridiculous.

and ignored the crimes, the protected the 6%?

Accessories before and after the fact are still crimes, aren't they?

Sadly, many of the efforts to "protect the church" by covering up the crimes allowed the crimes to continue and created more victims. Tell me of those numbers.

we should not be broad-brushing a bishop mentioned in an entirely different context, as a "buttfucker" or one who was complicit in that.

Until that bishop calls for the punishment of all those that defended, protected and covered up for the 6% and until he makes efforts to know the numbers and to identify the other criminals involved in the horrific crimes against children (and God), then the comment is understandable and your outrage misplaced.

The bishop is punishing nuns for championing health care for the poor, he is taking a political stance. Why not demand he take a stance that matters and that is not in conflict with the word of Jesus Christ?

your still fair enough to not justify the comment but in reference to your comment, How do we know that this bishop did NOT call for the punishment of the molesters, and coverers-up?

He's speaking on a DIFFERENT issue and I although I certainly do NOT agreee with him on that issue, it's NOT "pedophilia" and shouldn't be equated with that.

the crimes and a call for justice, even now. Find me where he has publicly and politically called for the truth about the cover ups and true accountability.

I can give you where he took a political stand against the teachings of Christ, where he opposed basic tenets of the faith (as opposed to what is politically correct in the minds of the religious).

I didn't say he did..I simply said he may have...We don't know!

As for his stand against healtchcare, I completely agree with you!..I think the nuns were right and he is quite wrong....But again, that makes him neither a pedophile nor complicit in pedophilia.



*Edited for spelling

the cover ups, the mindless transfers that allowed the behavior to spread to damage more innocents, the prosecutions of all involved and all who covered the crimes is complicit, especially the hypocrites like this bishop.

sea of unhappiness for many.

I was raised as a Catholic and to be honest it hasn't been easy leaving the Church. Everytime I feel like maybe they are doing some good, I hear shit like this. I just can't condone it. They keep saying "it's God's law" yet how does God feel about the people whose lives may be saved if they can now have access to health care? Aren't they important too?

I wish my step father was still alive He was a Catholic priest for over 25 years and left during the mid seventies. Then he married my mom. Anyway, I know he would talk to me both openly and honestly about these issues.

they had left the catholic church, that she did not need the guilt of being an Irish catholic. I have another friend that married a priest years ago, he was removed. Later they divorced. He was a good man, but yet he was ostracized. Most friends I have that were catholic harbor a lot of guilt and IMO nonsense.

and to be honest, it doesn't make people become better Christians. It just weighs them down with a bunch of unnecessary self loathing and fear.

I feel for your friend's ex. It must have been really hard if he still was active with the church. My step father got his dispensation from the church during Pope John Paul I reign. then my mom had her first marriage (to my dad) annulled in the church and and thet got married in the church. Weird. I always wondered if my parent's marriage was annulled, what does the church think of my siblings and I. Again, I wish he was here so I could ask him.

who had left the priesthood many years ago to marry a woman parishioner he had fallen in love with. The woman died awhile ago, and my sis is his second wife.

He was NEVER "ostracized" for leaving the church, in fact his experience is entirely different...A still practicing priest friend of both he and my sister introduced them...They gets together a couple of times a year with a group of friends, priests and ex-priests (some who left to marry)so there is no ostracization there.

and not the women who fill the pews and work as nuns?

catholic church. PS: Don't take is as offensive, I'm just airing my feelings on this.

of how many Catholic DUers there are? How many Catholics who are progressives? That lay Catholics and nuns are just as much members of the Catholic Church as the Bishops? Why are you trying to insult them?

you associate with.

I have no pity! Sorry!

Or are you one of the many who revel in anti-popery?

Catholic bigotry has deep roots in this country, as seen by many posts here by non-Catholics.

The victims are the boys (and some girls)who were raped by priests over and over and the lay-people who were lied to over and over and had their trust broken, over and over by a church who spent hundreds of years covering it all up and who continues to spit in the face of the living victims.

Are you Catholic or were you never introduced to the word papist?

I was baptized, received first communion, confirmed, attended a Catholic high school seminary, and received the sacrament of marriage. Do I have enough of a Catholic background to comment?

Because this pope is dick. The last pope was not that much better. Everything coming out about the cover-up of pedophiles is just indicative of the flaws of the church. And if anyone wants to say that the leaders aren't the church and it is all about the local parishes, they are fooling themselves. The pope is the church. If you don't like it, then try out the Episcopals--same feeling to the service, same general theology, no asshole pope.

What an astoundingly bigoted comment to make. Are you Catholic?

I'm an ex-Catholic, and I wouldn't make such a comment. :wow:

found what they like, that is fine with me. I am annoyed when the line is crossed and religion is pushed onto people.

prove that wild allegation if you can.

Or is the anti-catholic bigotry just bubbling to the surface making you crazy?

upside-down morals to me

They become more reprehensible with each passing day!

Totally different subject, but ok.

the Bishops and Cardinals are just a self-appointed elite.

he said,

Your Nation should continue to stand up for the indissolubility of marriage as a natural institution as well as a sacramental one, and for the true nature of the family, just as it does for the sacredness of human life from conception to natural death and for the proper respect owed to religious freedom in ways that bring authentic integral development to individuals and society.

He also said that the church (meaning its priests) were the body of christ on earth. He said nothing about its followers or members being the church. That's not how this gig works.

As long as Cardinal Law sits in a place of honor in Rome, then the Vatican and all it's "managers" are part of a Organized crime family.

How exactly is that able to happen within the organization of the church?

The best thing would be for everyone to leave the church and find one that better fits their needs. Most Catholics would be pretty happy and comfortable in the Episcopal church.

SO if the church is the people then they should be able to toss out the bad guys.

You are spot on about the Episcopal church. After my in-law side of the family found out what happened to almost the entire generation of males in the family, everyone there switched to Episcopal. Now my family is still Catholic, but really only the elderly ones are practicing. The rest (except for me) go through the motions on holidays, etc. I think my parents are even getting fed up and they are devout Catholics.

How many RC bishops have covered up for child molesters?...What's the percentage?..Do you have the stats?

Unless a "bunch" is a majority, I don't see it "representing" anything.

AFTER the cover-up was found out?

Spare me your defense of these monsters.

I'm not defending the guilty...I'm defending what our legal system calls "presumption of innocence"....Remember that?

And yes, I know about Cardinal Law...He was given a job in Rome that pays him $90,000 a year...I don't know if that is "promoted" and/or "rewarded" but I DO find it appalling, and "inappropriate" to say the least!

A slap in the face to every Massachusetts victim and their families. The church hierarchy should be tried for what they did, not treated like royalty. Now the Pope sits in Rome whining about how angry people are at him and the rest of them who allowed and enabled this to happen. It is incredibly offensive to those of us who's families have been harmed.

was handled...Certainly with Law. You say he was "given a place of honor"?..Beyond the $90,000 a year job, which is/was an outrage, imo, what do you mean by "place of honor"?

I won't "broad brush" the ENTIRE church, down to the last priest and nun, But...I DO believe this thing to be horrendous and certainly deserving of MORE investigation, with justice meted out to all of the guilty.

Not bad for working tirelessly for years to cover up and enable many priests in Mass to abuse alter boys. From Bishops on up there needs to be a housecleaning. They all knew what was happening. One did not get to become a Bishop without playing the game.

I'm not going to "broad brush" all..but I certainly understand your feelings and suspicions..If a "housecleaning" means a complete and thorough investigation, with jail time for the guilty, including the pope, I'm 100 percent in favor.

It's just one of those scabs that the vatican insists on ripping off every so often rather then doing anything to help it heal. I would like nothing more then to see Cardinal Law sitting in a cell in cedar junction.

It IS a horror, especially for little kids raised to so revere the priests...I was one of those kids and nothing happened to me, but if it had, I know I would have been horribly damaged..I don't think, in fact, that I would have "believed" my own experience, which might have left me with a serious mental illness.

Love and Peace:hug:

I would take 20 nuns over the male hierarchy any day! :)

that they move somewhere where they will be welcomed.

I agree with you about the nuns/vs. the male hierarchy.

(& presumably priests) who do a lot of social justice work. Those who publicly supported the health care reform law are now under incredible pressure. Someone wrote an LTTE lambasting a group that I work with in my hometown. I got a panicked call soon after I submitted my response from one of the sisters, begging me to call the paper & ask them not to print it, because they would be punished for what I, a non-Catholic, said in support of them. My letter is here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=180x63528

So it's not "just one Bishop," it's almost the whole fucking hierarchy lead by a Nazi attempting to drag everyone back into the Middle Ages. There are SOME bishops who aren't knuckle-dragging troglodytes, but they are being pushed out.

dg

That is just the sort of thing Jesus would be against. :eyes:

I had a doctor that I liked very much. Then the Catholic Church bought up his medical group practice and he made the fatal mistake of prescribing birth control pills for patients. His Catholic bosses told him to stop or he would be fired. He wouldn't stop and they fired him and forced him into retirement.

As far as I'm concerned, they are every bit the crooked racketeers that Rick Scott and his ilk are!

After all, Pope John Paul II declared both invasions to be against Catholic doctrine. Any priests or nuns who supported the wars should have received similar discipline, right?

Ooh listen! Crickets!

You would think they would want their children to have insurance and stay nice and healthy.

And the majority of lay Catholics supported health care reform.

so if this bill saves some lives (which I think it will), then how does the Catholic church feel about that? Don't they have any conflictions with that? it doesn't make sense - what they are saying. this bill does not cover abortions so what is their problem?

If he and the rest of the Republican Bishops wish to ouster Democratic nuns, good luck finding Republican nuns to replace them. They don't exist. The Catholic Church sure seems hellbent on imploding itself. Perhaps it will be God's will...

And the vast majority of the laity understand this.

The guys at the top are sure proving the old adage about absolute power corrupting.... Throw in the myth of the infallibility of popes (even old Nazi popes) and the result is a bunch of pretty arrogant fools steering the ship onto some rather large rocks.

Who'd a thunk?

:eyes:

My dream gorwing up was to become a Jesuit: the intellectual side of the Church, often hated by your average parish priest.

However, I realized that I could not stand by and become a solider for the church under JP 2. I could not deny women the right to be priests when many of the people that supported my faith were women, nor could I deny them birth control.

I will admit, I lost faith, and despite the sneers of some "well meaning" ? Atheists here, I will admit, life does not have the same flavor without faith. However, I realize, especially seeing Johnny Rat, that I needed to LEAVE the church, not just hope things improved.

but found a comfortable home in the Episcopal church - much the same liturgy, which is comfortable, but lots more democracy and room for individual discernment.

It isn't the Catholic Church itself who'se wrong for shunning the pro-health reform nuns. It's the individuals in charge, some who are prone to abusing authority, who should be held accountable for their "sins of the spirit", a.k.a., arrogance and false pride.

I'm going to speak out after months of silence--I'm fed up with some DUers smearing the entire Catholic Church with a broad brush because of the actions of right-wing authoritarians in charge. Let's be fair and stop the broad-brush, mindless Catholic bashing and direct your criticism at the right-wing Judases who pass off their political ideology as Catholic doctrine and retaliate against anyone who disagrees with them.

IMO, Bishop Brandt is a sexist bigot who doesn't like the idea that women are telling him he's committing a mortal sin by denying people the right to get better if they get sick.

I am sick to death of hearing about the "millions of good catholics". If they are so fucking good why do they support and pay for their corrupt leaders. It's not as if they would have to do much. Just stay home on Sunday and STOP GIVING THEM MONEY. Call your self something else.

no longer a catholic.....when i was old enough i RAN from the church

nt

with a "pastoral letter" that went out to all Catholics of the diocese condemning pro-choice Catholic politicians, including John Kerry.

No politician can prevent abortions from occurring. They will just become more risky for women without the money to have a "private" safe abortion. On the other hand, politicians CAN prevent our country from starting illegal preemptive wars.

Bishop Brandt is to be congratulated for driving even more people away from the Catholic Church.