Why are people so offended by a National Prayer Day?

I'm a Christian and am just curious about why this has become such a big issue lately...

On edit:

Ok, to be fair, this was a bit of an experiment on my part. I understand exactly why a national prayer day could be offensive - and not only to non-Christians, by the way. I find it offensive, too. I posted my thoughts on the matter here earlier. Replies were fast and furious in this second thread, in which I offered no opinion of my own. I guess I just wish that more people showed interest when a more positive Christian view is expressed as they do when given the chance to belittle the negative stereotypes.

I'm still interested in your replies. Just thought I should come clean on where I stand.

Carry on.

:hi:

you only believe because you're afraid not to. Spirituality needs no religion.

Why do only Christians get a national prayer day? Why not believers in Shinto? Wicca? all other religions?

and just makes the obvious choice to be not to have such a national enshrinement of any religion.

1) Whose prayers?

2) Why should people who don't pray, or believe for that matter, get stuck with a prayer day?

3) What happened to the separation of church and state?

4) Why do you need one?

Whatever prayer you want

If I have a National Day of Gardening, it's not necessarily important what kind of garden you plant.
National Prayer Day it's irrelevant who you pray to or what you say

Seriously, it's kind of a silly day, but we do have many somewhat silly special days

People who are serious about prayer, pray almost everyday, if not everyday.
People who pray because it's a day set aside for it, are not very serious about prayer.
Kind of like people who go to church on Christmas and Easter only.

As I said in another post, my problem with it is that it's being promoted by the government.
It's one thing for Obama, Pelosi or McConnell to say "I like to pray and I think everyone should."
It's another thing to have a federally sanctioned day for it

Simple really.

I believe some of the worst influences on our nation have been these seditious mega church pastors who build law schools but not medical schools, who reek of money and extortion, but pay no taxes. Just feed on the innocent with fear mongering for their own power wealth and glory. Jet planes, gold and marble bathrooms, billionaires, millionaires all with God at their side.

They keep their people from thinking on their own so they never have any personal experience but are told how and what to believe. Most don't take it so seriously and so they survive not having a twisted heart and just go along...but others become fanatic zealots ready to kill those who don't agree with them. Condemning, condescending, and spiteful Palin, Bachmann Christians bathing in hypocrisy would feast on a National Day of Prayer. How sickening can a vision get. To think no one is running anything anymore, we're all just running around in it. We even accept sick, and insane people to be our representatives.

and this little history lesson needs to be brought up time and again.

I was watching a video recently about the Bonus marchers in 1932. They showed a group of WWI Vets reciting the pledge, and noticably missing was the phrase "Under God"

If you sit there and recite it to yourself without the phrase, note how it sounds..Recite it again. After a while you will note how "under God" sounds out of place, that is because it was not meant to be there.

1954. http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.shtml

self remove

Would that bug you?

some group comes up with ideas like this, everyone else should be able to ask for their ideas to have equal time.

It's an affront to people who don't celebrate certain religious rituals. It's about separation of Church and State. You know that various religions have religious holidays or days that they honor a concept or person, and they should be free to do so, but it doesn't have to be for everyone. This is why.

We could have a day where people could go out in the streets, the government offices and proclaim that praying is useless and bad.

Separation Clause.

If there's to be a special day set aside for special prayer, shouldn't your church do that one?

Are you so in favor of it because you think it lets you off the hook for the other 364 days a year?

THINK.

Are you so blinded by your own opinion that you can't take the time to actually read someone else's words before you type your response? You already replied to my first thread on this subject, so surely you know where I stand, don't you?

:shrug:

on the other 364 days of the year. It's like prayer in public schools. Kids already can pray in school and often do, esp. right before a math test! For some people, prayer is unceasing because it is the way they live their lives.

If you are a Christian it would seem that you would take Christ's example about praying to the Father in your room, not in a public way out on the street...it's right there in the Bible...

My understanding has been that it's a day to pray
You pick the prayer

God and America, and these are two things that should never be conflated.

I do have a problem when it's the federal government endorsing it

on edit: It's a good question and I hope it elicits some rational responses rather than over-blown outrage that you'd even inquire

In addition to the obvious issues of separation of church and state, I find it sad to be encouraging irrational behavior. About what you might react if they were to announce a National Homeopathy Day (assuming you don't believe in such nonsense).

Ended one hour ago in my time zone. If you are on the West Coast, though, there's still time to celebrate!

;)

You have been missed greatly:hug:

Actually, as a Christian myself, I actually have no problem with a National Day of Prayer (although I also agree very much with your point of view you expressed in the thread you linked to). As long as that National Day of Prayer did not involve one religion imposing itself on another religion (or non-religion as the case may be) and that those partaking of it are respectful and understanding of those who do not want to participate and who do not believe and subscribe to the same faith.

I have no problem with President Obama proclaiming a National Day of Prayer because I know that his administration will be respectful and inclusive of all points of view and all religious and non-religious beliefs (he has also gone out of his way to acknowledge other religious observances such as Ramadan, Hannukah, Deepavali and the like). But if fundamentalists use the day to promote their own agenda rather to engage in the genuine purpose of prayer and if they seek to ostracize and marginalize others in the process, then I do have a problem with it. It's a fine line I guess

:hi:

A national day of religious tolerance I could get behind, it is our foundation. A National day of praying to something/someone? Not so much. :hi:

BTW, this is MrsGrumpy from days of yore.

364 days left in the year????

has always been simple. If you want religion, go to church. I want ethics in my government.

A lot of founders agreed with me that there's nobody up there taking requests.

I think praying is the silliest waste of time in the world, and I did it for 44 years!! Simply because I was indoctrinated pretty hard into that particular superstion (Catholicism.) But I began to see it as a con.

Pray in your home. Pray all you want. Leave it out of other people's lives. Leave it out of any governmental involvement.

I didn't like them then and I don't like them now. Public shows of piety strike me as, well, unchristian.

It's called Sunday. Then there are those insignificant days like Xmas, Easter and even Thanksgiving.

A couple days ago I had a "discusion" with a wingnut preacher (this guy is a real work)...asked him whose god would we be required to pray. Does this include the Budhist god? The Wiccan god? The agnostic god?

Then my fun continued when I wondered why someone who thinks we're heading toward socialism and an ever-encroaching government (this guy has tin foil hats ontop of his tinfoil hats)...why would you want the evil government to mandate praying. Just imagine if they take control of religion and then tell you who and what to pray to. He all of a sudden had a phone call. :rofl:

organized religion has already done the following:

E Pluribus Unim meant something to the nation...In God We Trust does not.

One Nation, Indivisible, With Liberty And Justice For All...means something

One Nation, under god,...does not

Camels that are always poking their noses under the tent flap, generally get their noses swatted.

For over 40 years, the christian right has tried to play victim...under assault from those godless "commies". They're convinced this is a "christian nation" and any attempts to stiffle their ability to push their morality on others is some kind of attack on "freedom of religion". The nose and the rest of the body has been inside the tent since this country was founded...they want us out of the tent.

Certainly not one of the greatest facing us, but still. No government should be allowed to push a religious view because it implies an inferior status for people who aren't religious. It's an ironic echo of the Roman persecutions of Christians for not believing in the Roman gods, or worshipping the emperor as a god (well, they didn't really see him as a god in the way we mean the word, but that's a longer answer than anyone would bother reading, probably). The Romans did everything from minor harrassment to, at times, execution, of those who did not recognize the gods Rome wanted them to, and Christians of all people should be sensitive to this fact.

To me belief (and that includes believing in the negative) is a basic human right no government should be allowed to violate. A national day of prayer violates that right. It's not a major issue by itself, really, since it doesn't change my life one way or the other. But it is proof that government does not respect the rights of all of its citizens, and that means it doesn't respect the rights of any of its citizens, and that's a bigger issue, and leads to very grave results.

Plus, we all know it's just a political stunt to please a few whiners. Symbolism without substance always annoys me, even when our side does it.

BTW, :hi:

fundies have done more damage to their faith among those who are not a part of it than any outsider could ever do.

fundies have made me and many others hostile toward religion by their belligerence and intolerance... and what you see is a push-back by people who are so disgusted by the influence and the position they have in American life, beyond their numbers or their value to society, that people are saying "enough" about anything having to do with religion.

fundies have debased the entire concept of god for a lot of people.

they make a lot of money doing a lot of harm.

a fundy cause and it is a creation of the C street folks the Family or whatever it is they call themselves..the Cult of Coe.

The day will pass without my notice, I am sure.

I'm a white member of the aristocracy descended from plantation and slave owning whites, and don't see the big deal.

Edit: :sarcasm:

and learn how this so called national prayer day was born, who birthed it,
who attends it, and why- then you would know

It is CORRUPT!

a temple, a meadow, etc., it does seem as if most people are free to go to those venues and pray to whom or what they please without the structural overlay of a Constitutional republic-sanctioned permission slip.

In my opinion a great majority of "negative" comments on Christianity here have to do with the hypocritical conduct and public statements of those calling themselves "Christian" as opposed to all-out assaults on that faith's origins. In theory U.S. citizens are permitted to practice whatever faith tradition they wish and churches do so as tax-empt entities. The rub comes when a tax-exempt private religious entity attempts to impose its particular worldview and belief system onto public policy.

In the recent era the Republican Party has welcomed the fire-belching witch-burning scorched-earth fundamentalist Christians who are anti-science, anti-reproductive rights, anti-choice, and anti-lesbian and gay marriage, and so on down their little grocery list of social grievances. Many here find that to be hate-posturing and note its affiliation with "Christian" church organizations. These folks have appropriated the New Testament to advance a theocracy. The GOP has fanned those flames. And IMO that's what's drawing the heat on this liberal site and others.

I spiritual, but not religious.

Prayer isn't exclusive to Christianity, either, so I don't get the uproar.

I practice meditation daily and don't need a national day for it.

just another soemthing to make a "to do" about

For my part, it's not a judgment on prayer. Prayer comes in many forms, from all faiths and from non-faiths as well.

Perhaps it would be less offensive if our nation were completely open, accepting, and inclusive of all faiths, and not a dysfunctional boiling pot of fundamentalism.

Still, IN MY OPINION, prayer is a private, not a public, thing. Even when done with a group. Public prayer is political, not spiritual, and thus a blasphemy.

Religion has no place in government.

We don't really "pray" in the manner other folks think of prayer, but unless you believe Wiccan Rites on the WH lawn would be okay with everyone, then it is a Government stamp of approval on the Abrahamic religions.

I just think it's unconstitutional. Specifically, it violates the Establishment Clause.

Are you autistic? Because April is National Autism Awareness month.

Were you abused as a child? Because April is also National Child Abuse Prevention month.

I sure hope you have nothing against frogs or gardens, because...you guessed it. April is also National Frog Month and National Garden Month.

Look, if you are going to protest the National Day of Prayer, do it with some sort of logic. I actually happen to agree with you in general. But no one is assuming you pray or trying to force you or anyone else to, either. That isn't the point. If you can't see that, perhaps you might consider celebrating yet another of April 2010's official holidays.... National Humor Month. Lighten up a little.

been excluded from National Day of Prayer events. As a non-Christian, that angers, concerns and offends me.

As you probably know, James Dobson's wife, Shirley, is the head of the National Day of Prayer organizing group, and has been for years. The national organizing group consciously, deliberately and consistently fails to permit non-Christian groups from participating in the events they organize and run. Jewish groups were usually included and in a few larger areas Islamic groups as well, but it was and is primarily for Christian groups and then only Christian groups of the "right" sort - liberal Christian groups were and are also discriminated against and not invited to participate.

A National Day of Prayer initiated by the US government that discriminates against American citizens is undemocratic, offensive, against the Constitution and has now finally been ruled the illegal activity it always was. I say good riddance to bad cess.

we are not a christian nation, we are a secular nation with a majority christian population. This idiocy is offensive, deeply offensive, to anyone who cares about the difference.

than actually engage in a rational conversation.

dg

:hi:

"Prayer" does not mean the same thing to all people. Government has NO place in determining how, when or why people should pray.

Prayer is between a person and their deity(ies), and is PERSONAL.

It has no place in the common..or the workplace or the school.

We are a multi-national, multi-racial society and no one should be TOLD by their government that this is "Pray-Day".

Anyone can pray anytime they like, as long as that prayer is between them and the one(s) they worship. If it's a prayer out-loud, there are perfect places for it. they are called churches/mosques/synagogues/temples/chapels/parochial schools/monasteries/ and of course, one's own home.

All kinds of people inhabit the common, and not all will ever be of the same faith.

Unless we want another Babel, with many voices trying to over-speak each other, and ending up a cacophony of distrust and anger, it's best to keep the worship-y stuff to the like-minded others & their places of worship.

n/t

If you abhor that, you can understand why we abhor
the National Day of Prayer. It's not the government's
place to direct people to pray, not is it the responsibility
of the government to declare National Blasphemy day.

You and most others here have assumed that I support a National Day of Prayer. Not only do I not, I never said or inferred that I did in my OP here. And I actually posted a link to my opinion on the matter, which no one bothered to read. All people saw was the word "Christian" and the stereotype was assigned.

If you expect me to see non-Christians as more than just a stereotype, don't I and other Christians deserve the same benefit of the doubt?

:shrug:

...you shouldn't post things like "Why are people offended by a National Prayer Day?"

You were being deliberately disingenuous, but that didn't stop you from being offended when you were called on your bullshit. Typical christian tactic.

I used the generic "we" and "you". Of course I understand
your opinion on the matter, but there are a great many
others who do not. My comment was more directed to them.

I guess these days you like your DU in concentrated doses like expresso, LOL!

:hi:

(The DUer formerly known as Opposite Reaction)

I don't think institutionalizing a day for us to pretend to talk to a magical sky man is where our governments efforts should lie.

'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion'.

What part of 'NO LAW' is so hard to understand, I'm not sure.

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

http://bible.cc/matthew/6-6.htm

existed but for the debate about it. Agnostic here.

As someone said above, there are already 52 national days of prayer per year. Why does the government have to get involved?

You know what would be great, though? A national day of service. People who are so inclined could work with their churches on a service project, people who aren't religious, like me, could do something else community-minded. Imagine how great it would be to have a day where everyone in the country pitched in on community enhancement, maybe cleaning up the grounds of a local animal shelter, feeding the homeless, collecting food/clothing donations, painting a local school...

The religion of atheism. They run around proselytizing how bad believing in God is and how you are stupid and uneducated if you believe in a higher power. They are just as bad as the people that go door to door on Saturdays to convert you to their religion. Having a national day of prayer hurts no one. No one is obligated to pray and I challenge anyone to show me how this interjects the Government into religion. Just read some of the posts on this thread.

Hey, can I get a tax break for that?

:eyes:

Which is just as bad. Why do you hate the First Amendment?

Do people love their mothers more on Mother's Day?

Those that are atheist, agnostic, or otherwise religious in other disciplines besides the "Big 3" (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) may have a problem with a national day dedicated to it.

As a kid, I always had a problem with the "under God" section of the Pledge of Allegiance and would always just mumble those words. I later found out that the Pledge didn't contain "under God" until 1952, during the height of the anti-Communist hysteria. They put it in because Communists don't believe in God.

However, the country functioned fine more more than 50 years without it.

I don't see a need for "under God" in the Pledge, nor a National Prayer Day.

If churches choose to celebrate a special day of prayer (back when I was religious, we called it Sunday :P ) that's certainly their right, but it's not constitutional for the government to throw it's weight behind a religious observance.

One that can be, and is among millions, privately, shared with others. Faith, like love, is an abstract, and like Carl Jung said, (paraphrase) faith needs no proof. That being said my experience is that private acts of (sane)faith are far more profound and meaningful then trying to shove faith down peoples throats, especially given the dogmas of various religions. Legislating faith, even in something as seemingly innocuous as "National Prayer Day" is historically dangerous and has led to incredible human suffering, on the end of those with faith, those of differing faiths and those without.

Keep it private, keep it simple. Let others have their privacy of having faith and prayer, or in my case, not.