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Ahhhh. . The 1880's - a Libertarian paradise?

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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-10 06:00 AM
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Ahhhh. . The 1880's - a Libertarian paradise?
http://www.alternet.org/story/146510/conservatives_want_to_take_america_back_to_the_1880s?page=entire

It took the Republican Party sixty years of dedicated effort to make the word "liberal" radioactive in some parts of the United States. In less than half that time they've also done a pretty good job of making "Republican" just as disliked, associated as it is with the politics of wretched excess, fetishizing ignorance, bowing to K street lobbyists, and diaper-wearing-toe-tapping-lesbian-bondage sexual hypocrisy.

Some conservatives have jumped in a different direction and declared that they're really "small government Libertarians."

Let’s consider, say, the year 1880. Here was a society in which people were free to keep everything they earned, because there was no income tax. They were also free to decide what to do with their own money—spend it, save it, invest it, donate it, or whatever. People were generally free to engage in occupations and professions without a license or permit. There were few federal economic regulations and regulatory agencies. No Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, bailouts, or so-called stimulus plans. No IRS. No Departments of Education, Energy, Agriculture, Commerce, and Labor. No EPA and OSHA. No Federal Reserve. No drug laws. Few systems of public schooling. No immigration controls. No federal minimum-wage laws or price controls. A monetary system based on gold and silver coins rather than paper money. No slavery. No CIA. No FBI. No torture or cruel or unusual punishments. No renditions. No overseas military empire. No military-industrial complex.


(BIG ~snip~ here. . go read the whole article)

The difference between actual Libertarians and Republicans hiding from their tarnished name is quite easy. Actual Libertarians are concerned about the freedom of individuals. Conservatives use Libertarian as a code word meaning "I want to continue to enjoy all the privileges I do now, but I don't want to share them with you and most of all I don't want to pay any taxes." Push come to shove, they're happy to abbreviate that to "Screw freedom. I just don't want to pay taxes."
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-10 06:14 AM
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1. Recommend
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canetoad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-10 06:22 AM
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2. Author needs to do some fact checking
No income tax in 1880? No cruel and unusual punishment? And that's just a start. The article seems well meaning but these are glaring mistakes.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-10 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I believe he was just recounting the trope popular among recent converts
to "libertarianism"..
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-10 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. My recollection of history is a bit fuzzy on this...
but I think although there was an income tax enacted during the Civil War, it was for the war only and repealed thereafter until the 1890s when it was re-instituted at something like 2 or 3%. So technically in 1880 there may indeed have been no income tax.
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-10 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. There was an American Empire too
Manifest Destiny and the subjugation and genocide of Native Americans was about at its height in 1880, no? Maybe a bit past its peak, but certainly not 'past tense'.
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shawn703 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-10 08:03 AM
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6. I'm sure that's not the only reason they want to go back to the 1880s
And I'd be willing to bet, most of them are white men.
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-10 08:50 AM
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7. as I understand it also,
even in what could have been considered "urban" areas of the time, you could still do some "farming".

hellofa lot less people in the U.S. those days ... plus, some people just "dropped off the face of the Earth" ... never to be seen again. "Oh, I heard he went off into the west ..."
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Gaedel Donating Member (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-10 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Also
For those who were discontented also could escape to the west for a "new start". There was a shortage of laborers in most parts of the country and the drifter could always get a job in a lumber camp or on a railroad construction crew.
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-10 11:13 AM
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9. And there was a semi-permanent state of economic depression
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1873

The Panic of 1873 was the start of the Long Depression, a severe nationwide economic depression in the United States that lasted until 1879. It was precipitated by the bankruptcy of the Philadelphia banking firm Jay Cooke & Company on September 18, 1873. It was one of a series of economic crises in the 19th and early 20th centuries.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1893

The Panic of 1893 was a serious economic depression in the United States that began in 1893. Similar to the Panic of 1873, this panic was caused by railroad overbuilding and shaky railroad financing which set off a series of bank failures. . . .

A series of bank failures followed, and the Northern Pacific Railway, the Union Pacific Railroad and the Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railroad failed. This was followed by the bankruptcy of many other companies; in total over 15,000 companies and 500 banks failed (many in the west). According to high estimates, about 17%-19% of the workforce was unemployed at the Panic's peak. The huge spike in unemployment, combined with the loss of life savings by failed banks, meant that a once-secure middle-class could not meet their mortgage obligations. As a result, many walked away from recently built homes. From this, the sight of the vacant Victorian (haunted) house entered the American mindset.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Depression

The Long Depression was a worldwide economic crisis experienced in the latter half of the Victorian era, though there is some controversy over whether it should be labeled a depression or a series of recessions. The Long Depression was felt most heavily in Europe and the United States, which had been experiencing strong economic growth fueled by the Second Industrial Revolution and the conclusion of the American Civil War. At the time, the episode was labeled the Great Depression, remaining so until the vastly more severe, although shorter, Great Depression of the 1930s. . . .

In the United States, economists typically refer to the Long Depression as the Depression of 1873–79, which followed the Panic of 1873. The National Bureau of Economic Research dates the contraction following the panic as lasting from October 1873 to March 1879. At 65 months, it is the longest-lasting contraction identified by the NBER, eclipsing the Great Depression's 43 months of contraction. Following the end of the episode in 1879, the U.S. economy would remain unstable, experiencing recessions for 114 of the 253 months until January 1901.

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hayu_lol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-10 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. This was the period known as the...
Golden Age. Anything went provided you had the cash to pay for it. Some did.
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