Can we live too long?

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-rodriguez19-2010apr19,0,722257.column?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fmostviewed+%28L.A.+Times+-+Most+Viewed+Stories%29

Can we be too healthy and live too long?
If Japan, where ancestors are revered, is plagued with unhappy seniors, what does it bode for us in our push for better healthcare and longer lives?

You hear critics grousing all the time about the social consequences of having large cohorts of restless young people -- particularly men -- around. They are generally blamed for rises in crime and even social and political unrest in places like the Middle East. But what kind of social consequences can we expect from large cohorts of the elderly, retired and healthy Floridizing all 50 states?

I'm not just talking about the burden of bloated pensions or paying for Medicare, though these are real problems. I'm thinking about the cultural shifts an aging society is likely to endure. Off the top of my head, I'd say a senior-heavy population pyramid might see more cranky "tea partyers" and a less optimistic and forward-thinking culture. If the baby boomers live longer, we're bracing for a couple more decades of those nostalgic television shows that tell us how great the 1960s were.

If that isn't scary enough, take a look at Japan, which has the world's fastest-aging population. Its experience points to much more profound consequences: If too many of us live too long, however physically healthy we may be, it could lead to an epidemic of loneliness and ennui.

The Japanese, with their healthy diet, good healthcare and advanced medicine, have the highest life expectancy in the world. In 2008, nearly a quarter of the population, or 28.2 million people, was over 65. By 2030, 1 in 3 Japanese will be senior citizens. If civilization is the struggle against death, then surely Japan's high life expectancy is a triumph of human culture.

But according to Florian Coulmas of the German Institute for Japanese Studies in Tokyo, the Japanese are "exhausted" and the mood in the country is "depressed." They are burdened by the lengths of their lives.

The people there looked like zombies. All they did was just sit and stare straight ahead. one woman was sitting in a wheel chair in the hallway, blankly gazing ahead, when I got there. By the time I left, an hour later, she was still just staring into space.

I told my dad that I hope I die before I get to that point.

population of nursing home residents is a problem far worse than whether seniors influence TV shows and some policies.

(And the possibility of being one of them is absolutely terrifying.)

It seems like why even bother trying to stay alive? All you do is awake, stare vacantly into space, eat crap and then go back to bed.

I've seen that and worse, a hospital for seniors where the seniors were essentially kept no better than dogs at a kennel. Old people running around who clearly were suffering from dementia, the whole place smelled of urine, bad food. It was disgusting. I think somebody who takes care of themself, body and mind won't have to go through that. Stop watching TV, read books, get excericise daily and I don't think you have to end up like that.

n/t

At 60, I said 70 and above should be kervorkianized
They are a burden on society.

At 70, I said 80

at 80 I said 90

At 85 I say 100 +

clarence swinney
ugly old man

sounds like the formula i use to define "kids"
the older i get the older my idea of "kids" becomes

btw--i looked at your profile--congrats on the lifeaholic book you had published in 2008.

I will never be bored by life but do not intend to suffer long given the choice.

The 1960s were a maturing time that brought much diversity and creativity to our culture.

If I had two wishes in this life, they would be that there were not the politcal assassinations of the 60s and that the anti-Vietnam war protester's had succeeded by 1968 and the military had shrunk ever since.

It is possible for your life and to still be alive physically. It doesn't take much wisdom to understand that. It is a dilemma some face.

:evilgrin:

I thought about some national/international figures who might have lived too long.

But it was highly subjective...

regarding longevity?

I would like to suggest that longevity or the lack of longevity should be a personal choice, all other factors aside, not a legal obligation.

with good health, we should all live as long as possible. I have several 80 yo+ relatives that I speak to frequently and they ALL say "I feel JUST like I did when I was 21... the same excitement, the same interest in life... just a bit slower and bit more tired."

And with global climate change, there won't even be any ice floes for you youngsters to put us boomers on.

Are there population issues?

Is there away to "give up the ghost"?

Is the subject adaptable?

Do you get health with that?

Is that wealth of experience used as such or treated as old and ill news?

Lots of factors. I suspect some folks barely can tolerate hanging here 60-70 years while others think they want to go on forever but would feel the grind and stretching of a few centuries while others might take to it for longer. My bet is few are cut out for more than a couple thousand years tops, too much change and death. However, a few would actually take to more serious immortality like fish to water.

Or, would it be the "non-productive"?

Looking at it individually, I'd say it depends. When I worked in long term care, I saw folks desperately clinging to life, doing whatever it took to life, in very difficult circumstances. Life, itself, was sweet.

On the other hand, I met elderly folks who were patiently waiting- they didn't want to die, but they had come to a place of acceptance and peace. What is sad the very common perception of elders being useless burdens, it tends to become a self perpetuating sterotype, we ask nothing of our elders and assume they can no longer contribute. Or want to.

I hesitate to interpret Japanese statistics, since I'm culturally ignorant of the Japanese, but I suspect long life and old age aren't the only factors in the statistics cited.

I think the article does older folks a disservice. My view of tea baggers is a more of a younger to middle-aged, deliberately ignorant and selfish population with overtones of hate and resentment, or projection if you like. Since these people won't take responsibility for themselves, certainly won't try to be a part of a greater good, they blame whatever convenient target or targets that bonds them together in mental disarray

Come on!

We, even us progressives, cling to the way things were. We had a huge cultural shift from the effects of the industrial revolution, but although the key factors occurred in the 1800s, it wasn't until the 1900s that we really began dealing with them. Two of the biggest were the roles of men and women in the workplace and family size. The old models stopped making any sense at all, but we went generations before even beginning to raise our female children to aspire to a career or shifting from the farm-friendly passel of kids to the urban model of 2.3 offspring.

The point is that you can't/shouldn't make decisions or even draw conclusions from the early stages of a trend. In a world that valued things beside youth and rampant consumerism, retired people might have something to do in their golden years.

would complain that I will live too long! I just want to make it to my sixties without major complications. I am a type 1 diabetic, and am 34 now. Let me list the possible complications: heart disease, strokes, liver and kidney issues, risk of going into coma from low blood sugars and high blood sugars. Hopefully, with keeping my AIC level good, I can make it for awhile.

Live forever or die trying.

Then old age is not a burden. I spent much of my childhood around old people. My grandmother had 'house parties' every winter - all her friends spent the winter with her at her house in Florida; during the summer, Grandmother would travel to Ohio and Michigan and spend time with them. Those men and women were all active, involving themselves in all kinds of hobbies and pursuits. Many of them did birdwatching, some quilted, they attended local concerts, visited tourist attractions and kept constantly busy. Every one of them lived active lives well into their mid to late seventies.

My parents are following this pattern. Until pretty recently they were active in all kinds of the local library board and local history groups, traveled with them to various attractions and living history museums. Mom was the editor of the historical quarterly and only gave it up a couple of years ago. Mom also did all her own garden work, while Dad did the mowing until his antique riding mower gave out. Mom still does most of her own gardening, but this year she has gotten help with the big stuff.

Even now that they cannot physically do as much they stay mentally active, reading, doing crossword puzzles, keeping in touch with friends, children and grandchildren. They are in their late 80s and are pretty amazing at what they still do. The biggest problem for them is that my Dad is now completely deaf and is no longer able to walk or travel much.

Of course, for people who have never had any interests other than their work and children life after both those phases are over will be nothing but a burden. Those who have always had lots of interests and engaged in activities will be enjoyable as long as they can continue to be involved.