sarah palin's image appeals to me and i wish she was left wing

she's a horrible woman but i would adore her if she was a left wing populist.

of course any liberal should find her policies repulsive. i'm just talking about her woman of the people schtick. it really works for me.

is there any democrat who is capable of portraying a similar image in support of the side of the angels?

I'd be embarrassed that someone that ignorant of the issues was claiming to speak for me.

i suppose part of being left wing is being somewhat informed.

I'm sure you think this is funny.

i will expand on what i mean in a bit.

i just can very much see the appeal of her schtick.

maybe i just spent too much time on college campuses.

And personally, I find her presentation offensive. The winks, the faux flirting... she's every has-been queen of 12th grade who never grew up.

In fact, every single thing about her offends me.

women do not like her - even most ultra conservative ones.

:shrug:

of working class maternal authenticity. i am a sucker for that.

from working class. Just because she takes part in low culture/low art events (hunting, snowmobiling, etc) doesn't make her working class.

You're a sucker alright.

maternal or authentic.

Rich thicko. Someone once said that the Conservative Party is 'the cream of Britain because it is rich, thick and full of clots'! She would fit in well, except that she would be too stupid and nutty even for most Tories. She's uneducated out of choice and perhaps inability, rather than lack of opportunity - and she seems to have absolutely no ability to *think*!

Frankly, I think it's pretty insulting to working class people to equate them with someone like her.

to people who have been paying attention

the u.s. is a DEMOCRACY, facts are a secondary issue.

i think excessive romanticism about "the people" harms the cause of progressive politics.

Propaganda, lies, and deceit are no more savory when they come from the left, just because we claim we are doing it "for their own good" as the Soviets did. We do no one (including ourselves) any favors by embracing the tactics we fought so hard against during Bush the Lesser's administration.

I haven't met a DUer yet who harbors "excessive romanticism about the people" -- the noisiest ones are too pissed off at everything in sight to even begin to do that.

I reject your fantasy about finding a "Sarah Palin of the Left" as though we'd get some La Pasionaria figure to whip up the proletariat in another Civil War. That's a real bridge to nowhere. Thanks, but no thanks.

Hekate

While demanding bendable straws and at least a Lear 60 to travel on. :eyes:

There are many people I can think of as maternal - Palin is absolutely not one of them. Where are her kids most of the time? From legitimate sources, we know her son did not get the 2.0 needed to get into Alaska's university (from less acceptable sources - there are rumors that he was in trouble), Bristol was in trouble and had a baby as a teen - has she finished high school yet? Sorry, Palin will not make mother of the year.

Michelle Obama, Teresa Kerry, Tipper Gore, Hillary Clinton - all are more maternal than Palin.

But she's pretty and fascist, so like Coulter and Bachmann, the MSM keep televising her.

Don't be a sucker for that. Repetition is not the same thing as authenticity.

... who is a REAL, HONEST TO GOD Working Class Woman.

Michelle Obama's working class creds are REAL, and if her husband hadn't won the presidency, she'd still be a top administrator in a large public hospital -- a position she attained by having a terrific combination of brains, hard work, and ambition.

Good Lord, "maternal authenticity"?

Mrs. Obama comes from a perfectly functional blue collar family where her dad held down a full time job despite serious chronic illness, where her mom and dad wanted their kids to succeed and made sure they studied hard and played by the rules. She's not a quitter like Palin, and her mothering skills are miles ahead of Palin's as well, judging by the results so far.

I can't figure out what... why... oh, I get it! Sarah Palin is white! Which if you don't mind my saying so makes me embarrassed as all hell to be both the same gender and ethnicity as that idiot. My parents were working-class too, and all of us kids worked our way through college, and didn't flit around to 5 different colleges. Community college, state university, done.

Are you SURE you're in the right place?

Hekate

edit typo

But that's me ...

the 'of the people schtick'?

Palin is about as random as it gets. She is a fountain of talking points with no substance.

tbqh

Joe six pack is not some fucking creationist goober like Sarah Palin is.

Her voice is worse than fingernails on a chalk board.

No, thanks.

In fact, the substance is wrong so the OP can't support Palin, but likes the style just fine.

So it's actually the opposite of what you said - the OP does place substance over style. This is a good example of it, discounting a person for substance even the style is very appealing.

:rofl:

To me it's like they just pulled some random idiot out of the crowd at a tea-bagger rally and handed her the mic. She makes no sense and her voice could peel paint.

Why would you want to emulate such a bad influence?

we tried. However, we tend to elect our leaders from those with the education, qualifications and experience to be leaders. Maybe we should try to get entertainment stars to run for office instead. Hey, about Tina Fey? She looks like Sarah and she's a helluva lot smarter and better informed.

Thank the lord there is no Democrat equal to this quack.

It's a self-created, self-serving persona. DO NOT fall for it!

.

People want someone they can look up to, to blindly trust, and unfortunately there are those, like Palin, who will willingly step into that role.

It is an old tension that is stoked repeatedly. People who are intelligent, educated, and articulate are typically thought of as not trustworthy or dangerous in some way. The powers that be are afraid of smart people. The average citizen is taught to mistrust or despise those who are "too intelligent"

It is not a positive thing and not a good quality to admire someone for being simple. People should strive to improve themselves through work and through knowledge. It is hard work but it is important. Palin just propagates the mystique of Reagan and Bush Jr. being "men of the people" when they were in fact elites who just happened to be relatively dumb. Palin is not a bright woman. She is greedy, mean, uninformed, intellectually lazy, and jingoistic. She is a sign of everything wrong with the United States.

Palin is certainly ignorant and possibly unintelligent. I'm not sure that articulacy in itself is something to be valued, however.

If I wanted to distinguish articulateness as a uniquely admirable value I would have set it apart by using "or". By using "and" I clearly linked it to being intelligent and educated. There are many people who are both intelligent and educated who cannot articulate their thoughts and are rendered ineffective. You need all three to impress me. She has NONE.

hasty reading.

especially on economic issues.

during interviews and debates. Liberal women have intelligence. Sarah is dumbass personified. That's certainly NOT an image any liberal woman wants to put forward. Thank goodness.

If it was possible to do, I would disown her as a member of the female gender. She doesn't deserve to be a woman.

:thumbsup:

The Dubyas and Sarahs are all conservatives, because being conservative means one doesn't have to think.... Rush, Beck, Fox, et al do all the thinking for them.

and that's what she does.

superior in every respect

Seriously.

She's a clueless idiot. I find NOTHING about her appealing. Nothing.

You want somebody who has done nothing but learn talking points and throw away lines? Who is misinformed/ignorant on nearly every political issue? Who lies, repeatedly and knowingly? Who has mastered being a grifter?

WHY??

Rod Blagojevich, and other Dem disgraces. Her pride in her ignorance makes me cringe. And her pseudo-folksy demeanor bugs me just as much as the way McCaskill (and, really, every other MO politician) shamelessly switches between calling our state "Missour-ee" in urban areas and "Missour-uh" in rural areas to try to seem "down-home".

Her "woman of the people" shtick? Did Bush's "I'm a brush-cuttin', Jesus Lovin', Fighter Plane Flyin' Guy You'd like to have a beer with" shtick appeal to you, too?

Good grief. The woman's 'shtick' is like nails on a chalkboard. She knows absolutely nothing--- and even worse, tries to pretend that being stupid is some sort of badge of honor, because only "elites" bother with shit like "facts".

Please tell me that "the people" aren't so fucking dumb. I have a higher opinion of "the people" than to believe they're all flat-Earth know nothings.

I probably would like sitting out by the fire and having a beer with him. And if Palin were my neighbor, I'd think she's hot.

I wouldn't want either one running my country, state, city, or anything.

They are a waste of oxygen and annoying to speak to since they know nothing.

They've also helped put developers on the county commission who tried to overturn thirty plus years of environmentally responsible planning requirements. Fortunately we have for the most part an informed batch of voters in this county so the developers got thrown out before they could do much damage.

one more steeped in popular myth than in reality

Bush as a person has been known to be rude, arrogant and nasty even to those closest to him. However friendly the image he puts on in public, I think he's actually quite an unpleasant person to know underneath

Incidentally when travelling in the US, one of my tour guides said she had a friend who was actually a neighbor of the Bushes a long time ago. She said that George and Jeb were spoilt brats and Barbara was a witch but that George Bush Senior was a genuinely nice, pleasant, decent guy and the only one that she liked out of the family

a lot of people who should be voting left WOULD, though, and that's largely to do with her image, not her pro-plutocratic policies

we can't just ignore this fact, can we?

I think she is stupid looking. Michele Bachmann, if she didn't have those constantly popped eyes would be better looking.

appealing.

she is not of the people... she is self-righteous, ignorant, annoying and fake

I would be embarassed beyond belief.

What good image? Everytime she speaks, she looks like a baffoon.

:crazy:

i'm a bit surprised.

her style has appealed to a substantial section of the populace who should reasonably be progressives, i think that's something that should be taken into account.

appeal to progressives?

I'm trying to process that...

the fact that progressives don't appreciate why she has hordes of working class people getting her to sign their books, even though her policies are diametrically opposed to their interests.

upon the unsuspecting, just like GWB.

he was president for eight damned years, despite his consistent lunacy.

the left needs to lose its reservations about underhand appeals to the basest elements of human nature.

dumbasses representing me, or running for office, or being associated with our party. If that appeals to you, you are not a Democrat.

I'm a european socialist :)

... from under there?

Somehow I detect a certain lack of authenticity.

But that could just be me.

Hekate

about underhanded appeals... it is not win by any means necessary... the ends don't always justify the means

"the left needs to lose its reservations about underhand appeals to the basest elements of human nature."

Whatever for?

Paris Hilton also has a great many fans. Should we appreciate that too?

She appeals to the base instincts of people. She appeals to people's vanity and fear. She talks about issues she really has nothing more than a cursory knowledge of.

Elmer Gantry, Father Coughlin, and other demagogues had the same appeal. There is nothing new, unique, or desirable about her ability to gain a following.

supporting the new deal.

And some mass murderers have been very kind to their parents.

Coughlin's support for the New Deal did not last long anyway; he turned against FDR within two years.

Think Pied Piper leading the rats (and then the children) out of Hamlen. I can't imagine anyone appreciating rats mindlessly following a very shrill piper to their doom.

These hordes of working class people you're referring to are nothing to be admired and, as a political party, we progressives are better off without them.

have you seen her poll numbers lately?

I'm just glad she's on their side.

finger-stutter

finger-stutter

you need to have your head examined.

the brute fact is, a lot of people in a democracy don't vote on rational grounds.

the left has to realise and exploit that fact.

Her "populist" views have netted her $12,000,000 in pin money since she abandoned her governorship in Alaska according to MSNBC. A lot of it was obtained by less than ethical means. That is not chump change and she isn't spreading any of it around. She is simply doing what she does for the money. Do we really need any more of that? She not a populist. They care about people with low net worths and they generally are not stumping around latching on to any group or cause who will pay them then walking out the first time they have a problem. She has no ideas of her own. Her promises are worthless and her commitments dissolve if the wind changes.

As to her image, she is just plain irritating. She has a scratchy voice, she is an airhead and slams people who are educated. She is no more a woman of the people than Michelle Bachmann, another conservative harridan who is half crazy. In a recent poll it said that only 3% of America's women like or approve of Palin, and that is who she is supposed to appeal to. Even domestically she is a flop. A cat is a better mother and her kids are paying a big price for her carelessness and hypocrisy.

Everyone sees different things in people, but I cannot see what is admirable or desirable about this woman. To quote Keith Olbermann, "The woman is an idiot." I don't want any part of her.

- the strident, mocking, annoying voice that repeats lies without thought?

- her overt sexuality, winking at people?

I don't see her as a "woman of the people". She is far too hard and uncaring. If you mean that she is not "better" in any attribute - intelligence, vision, knowledge, taste, than the "average person" - I don't think that is what anyone wants from a leader. Beyond that the "average person" likely has more compassion, more respect for others and more kindness than Palin. Other than looks and energy, what does she have?

I would hate a "Sarah Palin" of the left. Even if she were smarter. I want a leader with integrity and a conscience, a vision for this country and the world, enough humanity to actually really see the hurt others might feel - in a private real way, not seeing the political use of the situation. She has none of that.

I imagine to many people, image holds a higher priority than deeds.

I would imagine that given the opportunity, most Madison Avenue PR firms could have a field day advertising just about any politician in the Capra-esque Populist mold. But, as with all advertising done by Madison Avenue, it's little more than a bill of goods bought by those of us who know little better.

Nine out of ten dentists recommend Sarah. New and Improved Sarah. Tastes Great, Less Filling Sarah. Better MPG, and American made Sarah.

I imagine there are many Democrats who could portray that image-- but who wants disingenuous behavior masquerading "one of us" when there are problems which need intellect rather than appeal, problems with need analysis rather than empty calories, problems which need to be solved, rather than given a faux- happy ending in a 30-second spot?

As was Hitler.

To those who had recently left the working class for the middle class, and to middle class people who hoped to become rich. Working class people hated her - especially of course those in the industries that she destroyed!

they won.

"what do thatcher and hitler have in common?"

They're both asses?

They won too. Without either being right-wing nuts or treating the people as fools.

For good or for ill (and I think we're agreed that it's for ill), Sarah Palin represents an image, maybe even a product that has created a visceral connection to a large number of voters, nearly all of whom would be voting Democratic if they voted on the issues as they effect them. So powerful is the pull of Palin's charisma that they're drawn to someone who's politics amount to a cosmic "pull my finger" joke rather than vote for the candidates who are genuinely trying to help them. We've had people like that before in the Democratic Party -- JFK and Paul Wellstone come to mind -- but I don't know that we have that sort of personality today other than Obama himself. But among white voters, Obama's appeal tends to be the strongest among more educated voters and not the primarly the people who are the followers of Sarah Palin.

"product" is the key word here

I wish we had someone with that kind of appeal, but her appeal is inseparable from her pride in her own ignorance.

i'm not sure about that, although it may be partly true

Her shtick is absolutist homespun homespunnery.

She's George Bush without the ivy league education.

I don't think it's possible to be "one of us" and so dismissive of facts.

Being that clueless, and being proud of it is a proprietary right of the GOP.

The fact that anything about that disgusting freak show of a person appeals to you scares the hell out of me. Is it a MILF thing with you? That would be the only reasonable explanation.

She is authentic? In what way? I can't see one thing that is authentic, except that she is an immature high school mean girl that never grew up. That part of her seems genuine enough.

Are you sure you didn't mean to post this on Free Republic? Those people would agree with you wholeheartedly.

While she was governor, especially in the early days, she was very appealing. That was before all the screechy demagoguery, back when she wanted to take on the good ol' boys and clean up the corruption in Juneau by working cooperatively with the Democrats in our legislature. Honestly, if she had kept that persona, she would have been much more appealing to a broader base, but that's not the path she chose to follow, for whatever reason. ($$$$$$)

She's figured out how to schmooze people. DUers don't want to acknowledge that she has charisma. She knows how to politick.

The screech demagoguery is so appealing (to that demographic) but DUers don't/won't acknowledge it. She's not going away. Some group/entity/POBs are funding her and WANT her to be out in front, successfully. And so she is.

Ignore her at your peril.

You are usually able to rise above the rhetoric and put a down to earth perspective about all thing Alaskan. I also see the OP's point. While Dennis Kucinich, Bernie Sanders, Andrew Weiner, Alan Grayson are the true progressives they're not photogenic or charismatic to the masses and that's important in our day and age. We need a true Progressive with SP's charisma in 2012.

That said, there was a poster on here (in the Lounge about 5 years ago) who said he would be in love with her if she wasn't a Republican because of all she did for the environment. Of course, when the facts came out, I am hopeful that poster changed his mind.

should all else be the same (e.g. the us vs. them mentality,the ignorance, the incompetence, and the lack of work ethic or propensity to quit things that are too hard).

But all of those things define her. She's just another empty suit riding a gravy train filled marks for her con job.

Right or left an idiot just makes the supporters look like idiots

no matter what they're selling.

:rofl:

Pro-tip: It's a right turn at Albuquerque.

upom liberals?

i would never 'work' for me. never.

And that voice!!!

She wouldn't have been mayor of Wasilla, much less a half-term governor. If she were a lefty, chances are she'd never be televised at all.

She's all over the networks because her random word soup so often coincides with the ideas network owners want you to have.

She ditched Wasilla for the governorship, and the governorship for the vice presidency, then the governorship again for book and TV money.

"The people" she cares for are the ones who've made her rich, not the ones who voted for her.

In a Big Hair, Nazi/Bondage Dominatrix, Aging MILF sorta way.
...not that there is anything wrong with that.




K&R

And if she were, Big Media would tear her up instead of being in love with her.

pass

and tack it up somewhere where no one else will see it? :shrug:

She's blatantly phony, astonishingly ignorant and annoying as hell. She's only dragging the conservatives down. I'm just glad she's not on our side.

I'd view her as an embarrassment to our party.

You must be barking mad. Palin is repulsive. She's an affront to all intelligent women everywhere. She's as dumb as a box of hair, not to mention a phony and a fraud and a grifter. She's no more a "woman of the people" than Marie Antionette. Plus, her voice could curdle gin. The fact that there's nobody like her on the liberal side speaks well for liberals. We wouldn't tolerate a heinous twit like her.

the stupid.
it burns.

stupid women just don't do 'it' for me.

perception.is.everything ...
I guess.

that has the potential to incite violence and who uses her family to score cheap political points appeals to you?

I just don't know what to say:shrug:

That's all I have to say.

... because then, like the rest of the left wing, she would get no media attention whatsoever.

Palin is not even polling all that well among the Pukes. I assure you she's doing far worse among blue voters.

I definitely do not feel that Palin is "on the side of the angels," unless the angels in question turn their heads as Alaska's then-governor slaughters wolves from helicopters.

If there are in fact angels who condone wolf slaughtering, I don't think I want anything to do with them.

slivers slid under your toe-nails too.

:wtf:

edit: Now that I think about it, I like stupid people who are on my team even *less* than those on the other team. I'd much rather have idiots making the other team worse, instead of mine.

This appeals to you?

not just no but FUCK no.

I'm not sure whether I should question your veracity or your powers of discernment.

"she's a horrible woman but i would adore her if she was a left wing populist" = "i would adore her if she had a totally different personality but had a similar populist image."

but please note i did say she was a horrible woman with repulsive policies in the OP, I don't think my meaning was that obscure. A lot of posters don't seem to have read the post. a small percentage have.

She is being portrayed that way but I learned a long time ago that the TV lies.

it's an image.

I really think most would prefer a Kucinich or Grayson type rather than a grinning/sneering bobble head doll.

Substance over nonsense works for me.

You have noticed that most Republicans don't want her to be their nominee, right?

There probably IS some attractive, far left person out there who is really proud of being uninformed like Sarah Palin, but they won't get very far in politics. A lot of Americans don't can accept politicians who aren't intelligent, but only the far right gets really excited by them. And usually those Republicans to be pretty attractive to generate excitement. Virginia Foxx as uninterested in facts as Bachmann and Palin, yet gets no national attention.