Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Engineering question about the oil disaster

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-10 09:32 AM
Original message
Engineering question about the oil disaster
Edited on Sun May-02-10 10:06 AM by Kurt_and_Hunter



Since the drill hole is going through a lot of rock it seems that collapsing the drill hole at any point would seal the leak. The drill hole is a relatively tiny passage through an immense mass. The drill hole is an unnatural configuration... it's natural end state is to be filled in by gravity. (At some point enough rock or other material will shift to block the hole with enough mass to overcome the oil pressure, though it may take eons to happen naturally.)

(Important Note: The diagram is not to scale. The drill hole snakes through more than three miles of rock.)

If the drill hole was sufficiently disrupted at any point the (disrupted/broken up) rock would settle to block the drill hole. Like stomping on an anthill.

One thing we can do is blow stuff up. We excel at that. Explosive disruption of the hole would kill lots of fish, but less than more oil will. The oil cannot burn down near the ocean floor. (No free oxygen.) And the oil flow is limited by the smallest point of the drill hole; disrupting it at the top would not make the drill hole more capacious at the bottom.

The question is not whether it would work. I take it as a given that it would not work or we would do it.

My question is why it wouldn't work.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-10 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. I've been wondering the same thing exactly. Hope we have some DU engineers to
talk it over here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-10 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
2. Bookmarking.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-10 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
3. k&r
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-10 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
4. The short answer is, pressure.
I am not sure what the well head pressure is on this particular well but you have to remember that it was enough to overcome the drilling process already.

The most I can come up with is for analogy is, turn on your garden hose on full, then try to stop the flow by shoveling dirt on it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-10 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. And to you I would ask,
Edited on Sun May-02-10 10:16 AM by lonestarnot
what are the natural consequences of depressurizing an unfilled void, will pressure naturally equalize or is an implosion of a void predictable?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-10 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Not exactely sure what void you are refering to, but if you mean to depressurize the resevoir
that would take literally years depending on the formation.

Also, the resevoir does naturally subside into itself(very generic answer). Dealing with this is part of the lifetime maintenance of the well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. Yes, that is what I was referring to in different terms.
Not familiar with how oil wells work. Just seems if there is an empty hole where oil was and it is a mile under the ocean, water would be heavy enough to crush the hole, and maintenence of the well doesn't appear to working out so well here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-10 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. The analogy would be stepping on the hose
Shoveling silt into the oil hole would be futile because the oil pressure would blow out the silt as you shoveled it in.

But smashing rock (below the ocean floor) is a different matter.

The pressure involved is high by human standards but mild by geologic standards. For instance, the pressure from oil wells doesn't erode the surrounding rock in the manner of a dam-break. If it did then all oil wells would become gaping holes. We usually have more trouble keeping the holes open than closing them.

But where I agree with you that pressure is probably a big part of the problem is the practical side of things.

The oil pressure may well make it almost impossible to deliver charges into the existing drill hole below the surface -- the oil would be pushing out whatever explosive device you tried to insinuate into the hole.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-10 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. The reason the oil doesn't erode the hole is because of casing that goes down
usaully several thousand feet. After time the interior pipe does erode and needs to be replaced from the abrasion of the oil and other material coming up.

Exploding something to "crush" the pipe will not work because of the casing and cement. Even if you drill down next to it and detonate a "perf string", all you would do, most likey, is create a larger hole for the oil to escape.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-10 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Good explanation
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-10 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. How did Red Adair used to do it on land? nm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-10 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I think that was to extinguish fires (Versus capping wells)
The right explosion is like blowing out a match.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-10 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. He would blow out the fire with explosives then cap it or
cut off the old "tree" and install a new one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-10 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I think that is the problem. An explosion on the surface of the ocean bottom might not affect the
rock deep enough. Trick would be sink a hole next to the leak and get a charge into the hole.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. Better analogy,,,,
Turn on your compressor and set the valve to about 90 PSI...

Now put on your blower attachement and see if you can keep your finger over the end when pulling the trigger
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. I've read that the well in a 15 billion barrel reservoir pressurized to 70,000 psi.
Edited on Mon May-03-10 10:23 AM by lumberjack_jeff
Your garden hose is under about 30-40 psi.

You can't just stuff a cork in it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-10 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
13. You thinking about a small nuke?
I don't know how the hell we could get enough conventional explosives down there to do any good.

Don
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-10 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Well, if they are heavier than water...
Kidding, mostly.

I think you are right that the answer to my question is more practical than conceptual. We could not deliver the right charge to the right place as a practical matter.







Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. The risk to that is collapsing the overlying rock strata.
Not a good outcome.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 01st 2024, 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC