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When a "conscience clause" can allow a woman to die.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 12:42 AM
Original message
When a "conscience clause" can allow a woman to die.
This is from an eastern European blogger at RH Reality Check. I noticed it especially because our new health care bill has a conscience clause where women's reproductive procedures are involved.

When "Conscience Clauses" Mean Women Die

A woman died, because the doctors were afraid she could miscarry and refused to examine her. Whether Poland violated a patient’s right to life or freedom from inhumane and degrading treatment by making her suffer – these are the questions put forward by the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg.

When a doctor refuses to carry out a medical service, invoking his or her objections on the ground of conscience, because he or she is afraid of endangering the life of the fetus – in such a case does Poland provide a woman with assistance of another doctor - the Court asks the Polish government.

A 25-year-old pregnant woman from Piła died in 2004 of septic shock before being fully examined by a doctor. Seeking justice in Polish courts proved to be ineffective, so her mother turned to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg and is currently an applicant before the Court represented by two women lawyers, members of the Network of Lawyers of the Federation for Women and Family Planning in collaboration with the Center for Reproductive Rights.

In May 2004, the woman was informed that she was between 4 and 5 weeks pregnant. Prior to or early during her pregnancy she developed ulcerative colitis (UC). She was admitted repeatedly--11 times--to a number of different hospitals (in Piła, Poznań and Łódź). Certain examinations such as a colonoscopy and full endoscopy, which would have made it possible to gather more information on the location and extent of the problem, were not performed because the doctors were afraid of endangering the life of the fetus. She was given pharmacological treatment (for example, intravenous and oral administration of steroids and antibiotics). In July she was diagnosed with an abscess. Three operations to remove it were performed.


Then even though her parents pleaded that they do what they had to do for the mother, it did not happen that way.

During her stay at the M. Pierogow Regional Specialist Hospital in Łódź in August 2004, the doctor refused to perform a full endoscopy. He stated that “my conscience does not allow me to do this,” but did not formalize his objection or direct the patient to another doctor. The doctor justified not performing a full endoscopy by referring to his fear of endangering the life of the fetus. At the end of August 2004 mother of the woman and the woman's fiancée urged the doctor at the clinic in Łódź to commence any necessary treatment, irrespective of the consequences for the life of the fetus, to save the woman’s life. This was in vain. Why? Because the doctors were more concerned about the fetus. The woman lost the fetus on 5 September 2004. It was removed and the doctors removed an abscess. But then it was too late for intervention to help her. On 29 September 2004 she died of septic shock caused by sepsis.


She was not allowed to handle her medical decisions with a doctor she could trust.

There is a "conscience clause" in the new health care bill, included in the Executive Order on abortion.

Executive Order -- Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act's Consistency with Longstanding Restrictions on the Use of Federal Funds for Abortion

The Act maintains current Hyde Amendment restrictions governing abortion policy and extends those restrictions to the newly created health insurance exchanges. Under the Act, longstanding Federal laws to protect conscience (such as the Church Amendment, 42 U.S.C. 300a-7, and the Weldon Amendment, section 508(d)(1) of Public Law 111-8) remain intact and new protections prohibit discrimination against health care facilities and health care providers because of an unwillingness to provide, pay for, provide coverage of, or refer for abortions.


New protections were added to prohibit discrimination against health care facilities and providers who invoke the conscience clause.

But there is discrimination against women.



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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. Her death brought anger in Poland.
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2010/05/03/when-conscience-clauses-lead-death

"The tragedy of that young woman moved public opinion in Poland. Letters were sent to the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Justice. They were signed within a period of three days by more than 400 people and 30 non-governmental organizations. A special commission was established by the Minister of Health, but regrettably it did not complete its work before the new elections were held and a new government was appointed.

Justice remains unserved."

Yet here there is no outcry over the rights being taken away. I guess we all have to come to a certain point when we say no more.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
2. Interesting website about women's reproductive rights in Poland
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
3. The Democrats who surrounded the president as the exec order was signed...
which seems to have taken away any chance that a person or institution could be sued for violating a woman's right to health care.

Senator Bob Casey

Representative Bart Stupak

Representative Kathy Dahlkemper

Representative Marcy Kaptur

Representative Nick Rahall

Representative Jerry Costello

Representative Chris Carney

Representative Steve Driehaus

Representative Charlie Wilson

Representative Jim Oberstar

Representative Alan Mollohan

Representative Brad Ellsworth

Representative Henry Cuellar

Representative Mike Doyle



Frances Kissling hoped that pro-choice Democrats would get upset. So far not much upset.

As a consequences (sic) of the deal, Frances Kissling, the former president of Catholics for Choice, called for abortion rights supporters to renew their push to repeal the Hyde Amendment.

"I hope the choice movement now decides to play hardball with Democrats, including the President, and insist that an all out effort to overturn the Hyde Amendment is required if Democratic office holders and candidates want our vote in 2012," she told The Post. "I for one have decided that I simply will not vote for another elected official until Hyde is overturned and I hope others will do the same. There is no reason for prochoice voters to accept Democratic pussyfooting around on repealing Hyde.


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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. ...and because of this vote by these people, I will not vote for a democrat in the fall
because I will not vote for anyone who has worked to deny rights to women because of his stupid and misogynistic religious belief.

democrats who vote against choice for women will NEVER get my vote.

I expect a republican will win the seat, and part of the reason for that defeat is that some of us will not vote for a woman-hating democrat, no matter if he has a "d" after his name.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
5. Oh well, I thought I had edited out the smiley wink symbol...
It looked like it was gone last night. Must have been from the formatting of the text at the other link.

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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
6. seems to me
Edited on Mon May-03-10 04:46 PM by SemperEadem
that a colonoscopy would be far less harmful to a 4-5 week old fetus than a disgusting cocktail of steroids and antibiotics unless the doctors over there are all quacks and can't distinguish between their asses and a hole in the ground. If they performed 3 operations to remove an abscess, then the anesthesia used in the colonoscopy wouldn't have been a problem.

If this doctor's fear was him endangering the fetus' life, then perhaps he should be barred from performing ANY surgeries at all by that hospital. He sounds reckless and dangerous if he can't keep a damn colonoscopy scope within the intestine. It's not like the woman was full term: she was 4-5 weeks along. She didn't have a baby-bump yet. If his conscience can't allow it, then he needs to go sell shoes at the department store or work in a plant nursery. He should not be entitled to the prestige and status of "doctor" while at the same time, punking out on his duties to his oath by hiding behind a "conscience clause".

That "conscience" clause is really a "respect/recognition by the state of a religion" clause, and it should not be in any document or laws issued by the government when it comes to health care. Period.

Those who hide behind this counterfeit clause are not being doctors: they are puffing themselves up and playing God with women's lives.
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
7. Women's reproductive rights are under fierce attack...
...and it is getting worse.

We have the state of Oklahoma who has codified the "right" of doctors to withhold medical information from prospective parents -- namely, if there is a birth defect of some sort, and they choose not to inform the parents, they are specifically shielded from lawsuits as a result of withholding the information.

Now why would a doctor want to do that? Well, because s/he has decided that the parents might want to abort. And that should not be their decision. Rather, it should be the doctor's decision that they should carry an anencephalitic baby to term, or they should raise a severely retarded child, or they should just put their financial concerns aside and raise that child with spina bifida.

Because, you can't trust individuals to make decisions about their own lives. No sir, what you want is for your doctor to make these life-altering decisions for you.

Thanks for posting this story, it is yet another illustration of why we cannot allow the patriarchy to have control over these decisions. Yes I know some will find that an inflammatory way of putting it, but it is really the heart of the matter: men's rules, women's lives.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Yes, men's rules
women's lives.
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n.michigan Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Oh my God in Heaven- is it that bad in OK and elsewhere and we don't realize it?

I apologize for Michigan's Bart Stupak. What a disgrace.

OK takes away personal rights of individuals to supervise a long term pregnancy of a birth defect with a womens body and the compliance of her partner is mandated too? And withholding? F. They are out of control.

Its time for a revolution. Big time.


Sickening distortion of our Constitution. I think I will exercise my "conscience" much more now when it comes to making choices. My conscience won't let me endure this white men in suits bullshit in law. Or the oil drilling in the Gulf without safe standards. I will boycott BP.


Feels like Stepford only for real.


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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Well....
There's always Canada.

Sigh.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
8. k&r
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-10 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
10. K&R
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
13. Do women have the same rights to "self-defense" as everyone else?
Or do they disappear if the attacker is a fetus?

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Seems like they don't have the right to defend themselves if they are pregnant.
Their bodies then belong to the religious right...
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Personally, I could enjoy the right wing going this nuts . . .
except that so much of the public has seemingly been made clueless and unthinking

that it seems to be being accepted as much as an every day event as the Gulf spill!!

HELP!!!

:)
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-10 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
15. I fully anticipate that we will be seeing a rash of deaths from similar
Edited on Tue May-04-10 09:04 PM by truedelphi
"Doctors with conscience" here in the USA.

Many years ago, I would have died from a hospital not treating me while I hemorrhaged from a "legitimate" miscarriage, when the young resident suspected a self abortion.

And then last year, a Seventh Day Adventist Doctor refused me pain meds, as she said I could pray and work through the pain, plus exercise.

This notion of medical treatments being withheld because of someone else's belief that their Big Imaginary Playmate in the Sky wants it that way really needs to be abolished. Either doctors are people of science, or they aren't. And if they aren't, then why do they get positions at hospitals?

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-05-10 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Once we lived where there was only a religious hospital...
I believe it was Adventist. They really imposed their beliefs in their diagnoses and prescriptions.

Not going into detail, but they did have the pray over it attitude. I was told if my daughter's fever went to 105 again to give her aspirin and bring in the next day. The next hospital was 60 miles away, and we were new there with no doctor. Luckily it all turned out ok, but there should be no mixing of religion and medicine. Yes, I was told to pray.
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