The beating up on teachers continues. Opinion piece...

...from a California newspaper editorial board:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/may/03/the-hard-part-layoffs/


Thought I'd use a little of that 'raw power'... :7

Although they aren't even paid that well. They are respected in the way soldiers are in the U.S.

Finland has the planet's best education system.

and read the polling data you would realize that teachers ARE amongst the most highly respected of any profession in the US

do i need to provide the polling data for you?

hth

Thank you.

according to the harris poll 2006

---
http://www.pollingreport.com/values.htm
Would you generally trust each of the following types of people to tell the truth, or not? .

teachers were the second highest rated profession at 83%

top 7 were doctors, teachers, scientists, police officer, professors, clergy and military
in that order

the three LOWEST (from bottom up) were actors, lawyers and stockbrokers
---
another poll
"Generally speaking, do you tend to have a great deal of respect, a fair amount of respect, not much respect or very little respect for each of the following professions? - "Great deal" and "fair amount" of respect responses listed "

top 5 - nurses, farmers, teachers, doctors and scientists in that order
bottom 5 politicians, car salesmen, lawyers, business executives, actors from bottom up

note that this was a USA poll. the same poll in canada did not even list teachers in the top 5
ditto for britain

so not only do US citizens have VERY high respect for teachers, but we respect teachers MORE than do canadians or brits
http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/34136/high_respect_for_nurses_in_canada_us_and_uk

data: it's what's for dinner

and the OP is flat out wrong. we'll see if he/she issues an apology/retraction.

teachers outranked military in these polls. i am sure i could find PLENTY more. as could anybody with google and the time

http://www.schoolsmatter.info/2010/03/ravitch-on-central-falls-massacre.html

"Recently, the school committee of Central Falls, Rhode Island, voted to fire all 93 members of the staff in their low-performing high school. Central Falls is the smallest and poorest city in the state, and it has only one high school. Those fired included 74 classroom teachers, plus the school psychologist, guidance counselors, reading specialists, and administrators.

Secretary of Education Arne Duncan thought this was wonderful; he said the members of the school committee were "showing courage and doing the right thing for kids." The kids apparently didn't agree because many of them came to the committee meeting to defend their teachers.

President Obama thought it was wonderful that every educator at Central Falls High School was fired. At an appearance before the U.S. Chamber of Commerce on March 1, the President applauded the idea of closing the school and getting rid of everyone in it. At the same meeting, President Obama acknowledged Margaret Spellings, who was President George W. Bush's Education Secretary, because she "helped to lead a lot of the improvement that's been taking place and we're building on."

and that was my point

the poster said that IN FINLAND teachers have a lot of SOCIAL CACHET

and contrasted with the US, where he alleged that military have more, etc. and teachers don't have that cachet etc. (by inference at least)

his post was wrong, i said so, and provided cites to prove it

i didn't say ARNE DUNCAN and OBAMA supported teachers. i said the PEOPLE did.

because his point was about SOCIAL CACHET not support amongst the obama admin

y'know, also. when somebody goes through the trouble of responding to a request for cites, with the cites, you might at least ACKNOWLEDGE same with more than a functional equivalent of a "yea, but". which is what you did

as well as divert to a completely different topic vs. acknowledging the poster was wrong, and i provided cites to show that
again, the issue was SOCIAL CACHET ***Not*** support amongst the current admin

two ENTIRELY different things

hth

Taking the "public" out of public schools.....happening quickly.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5680

Faces of school reform. Too many billionaires.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5655

"a great and terrible charade"..school leaders and entrepreneurs triumphant at school closings?
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5640

Discipline methods from a charter school that would get public school teachers in serious trouble.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5623

"Democracy Privatized!"...education blog talks about turning over public functions to “the market”.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5610

Eli Broad: “We don’t know anything about how to teach or reading curriculum or any of that."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5817

Seems my taxpayer money will be sending many more to private schools....
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5670

Two Florida charter schools in financial crisis. Taxpayer money is paying their debt.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5801

Baton Rouge judges rules it is ok to give taxpayer money to charter schools.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5806

Former GOP insider says "Billionaire Boys' Club" dismantling education.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5787

Boston schools officials: We are not "firing" all teachers, just making them reapply.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5781

1994: Project Censorship The Sandia Report On Education. Showed schools improving. Not published.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5777

WP: It was a "sad, desperate" decision to fire all of R. I. school's teachers.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5765

Parents at PS 15, an "A" school, ask state to intervene in PAVE charter invasion.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5762

Two things: A clear concise indictment of charters, and a Chicago fight to stop school closings.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5754

Harlem charter school head emails show very special access to NY school chancellor
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5748

Living and dying by test scores: a charter faces probation for weeding out problem students.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5738

Charter school exec led hearing to let his school invade a Bronx trade school.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5722

Politically connected NY charter schools to receive 72 million in city money.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5710

Established Bronx trade school may be replaced by untested academic charter school.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5704

A Bad Year for Teachers, a Bad Year for Public Education
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5691

Protesting school closings in Chicago. “They are closing schools without following procedure.”
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5688

KIPP charter school invades NY public school with "A" grade....read the views of both sides.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5684

Florida wants 1 billion of Arne's 4. 3 billion to hire corporate consultants. Unbelievable.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5658

READ MY UPDATED POST.

you are discussing an entirely different topic

the OP did not reference the POLITICAL issue. he did not talk about the obama admin

he referenced, and i quote "SOCIAL CACHET" which has to do with THE PUBLIC, not the admin

and i provided cites to prove him wrong

again, please read my updated post

what you posted was not relevant

the issue i took issue with was his false claim about how teachers don't have social cachet in the US

clearly, the polling data shows they do

i never claimed arne and obama were supporting public education

hth

You are muddying the issue.

he said SOCIAL CACHET

teachers have, as my data shows METRIC ASSLOAD of social cachet in the US

they do not have a lot of POLITICAL CACHET in the obama admin

those are completely different things

the american public has a hardon for teachers. the data does not lie, despite your wish to ignore it

They are in fact joining forces to permit the school closings.

I have not been uncivil, I am pointing out that respect for teachers seems to be only in those polls you mention, one from 2006.

Remember that respect for teachers has gone down under this administration. Our party fought against Bush, yet is allowing Obama to continue his policies without even a whimper.

the 2nd poll is from 2009

the public loves teachers. just because they have not taken to the street to protest obama-arne policy vis a vis same does not disprove the metric assloads of data that shows they do

you asked for cites. the cites are inarguable, so now you argue something different. intellectual dishonesty bores me and you are clearly interested in heading that way

and as i say again, the public does NOT particularly love how public schools are run, teacher's unions, etc. they love TEACHERS

and as the data shows, teachers have tons of social cachet

for pete's sake MORE than military, as the polls show

hth

That's too bad.

the data is heartening but there's more to the respect a complex, heirarchical society shows for a profession than poll numbers among the general public alone. e.g. if you have a political culture which bashes teachers unions instinctively while being much more indulgent towards troops as a class of workers, then it is reasonable to say that society in practice respects teachers less, regardless of the poll numbers - i wasn't suggesting that the reason finnish teachers are effective is that x amount of the populace professes admiration for them.

i think it's pretty clear that social cachet in a western capitalist society is quite a different matter than popularity among the population at large. actually that term was a bit badly chosen, maybe talking about social capital would be closer to the mark.

put briefly, the public has a hard-on for teachers

the obama admin does NOT

btw, i greatly respect your civility in response

teachers are very highly respected by the US populace.

fwiw, it doesn't therefore follow that the american public is AS enamored with the way schools are run

but teachers themself are extremely respected. as the data shows

if you had said "political cachet" you would have had a good point, despite the fact that teacher;'s unions are amongst the largest political contributors in many states, etc. (20% in california iirc)

The article is worded poorly, but that's the exact approach we took when we had to make lay-offs. Some of the older teachers went ahead and retired and gave us the funds for a teacher and an aide, in many cases. Then we looked at actual positions, rather than specific teachers. But all of those questions were considered as the cuts were made. It was not a strictly last hired, first fired, across the board cut. It can't be in a school, some positions are more important than others, I'm sure you'd agree.

actually educate the general public.

and replace them with teachers with little experience who will work more cheaply. TFA is the big mover behind all this....they only have to say they will teach 2 years. Yet they get money from TFA and the private sources.

And a school district must pay thousands to hire them.

Why not keep the experienced teachers?

because they earn too much money. That's how states want to save money....depriving students of teachers with experience in order to save money.

Teach for America. A way to replace experienced, higher-salaried teachers?

This is the favorite thing for Arne and Obama to mention.