Why I voted for Arlen yesterday, and yes I'm voting for Joe in November

If there is one thing I respect, it is guts. Arlen Specter had a lot of guts. He was a political animal, but I would expect anyone who is elected to the office of Senate from a state as demographically diverse as PA 5 times to have to be able to do a lot of dancing.

Arlen was the only GOP Senator to co-sponsor card check. He was also reliably pro-choice. He worked to get the stimulus bill passed and after it was evident that he would pay a political price for it, yes he did jump ship on the party he was home to for 30 years.

We can talk about magic bullets and Anita Hill, but the thing I admired about Arlen was his guts. It takes guts to be able to hold those positions in a political party that outright rejects them for years.

He made compromises and did other things, maybe it was opportunism or a misguided hope he could return some sanity to the party he was the nominee for 5 times for US Senate.

I have some issues with Sestak, I'm worried about his operation against Pat Toomey, a man who has had a campaign office open 3 blocks from my house for over a year. I'm worried about the debate performance I saw back in August of 2009. I do know Joe is better than Pat Toomey. Hell I'd vote for W over Pat Toomey. Joe has accomplished a remarkable thing taking both Rendell and the President on to run for this seat. I will say this Joe has a lot of guts too.

I hope over the next 6 months, when I do vote for Joe, Joe is successful.

but your vote is your own.

I do agree about Toomey. He's batshit crazy, and that's the nicest thing I can think of to say about the man.

I didn't have a dog in this race. I did support progressives who were challenging Blue Dogs, but Sestak didn't strike me as particularly progressive, although I thought he'd be an improvement over Specter.

Kind of a clincher for me.

That's why our votes are our own.

Bleeding our treasury, our credibility and hurting our youth for a war we are not fully committed to. That I cannot support.

Toomey scares me, but doesn't seem to scare most of the state. It WILL be Santorum 2 if he is elected, and parts of Bucks County are heavily Republican ( Lower Bucks is mainly Democratic ) there are plenty of areas, though that could swing if enough about Toomey comes to light

I know Pat Toomey (2 years I lived out of district when he was in the House).

and your postings

He comes off completely reasonable. He doesn't make gaffes. There are no crazy stories of still born children. He's incredibly disciplined, and I would not want to debate him.

As far as a representative goes, during the 6 years he was in congress, he never fought for the district. Mostly ideological crusades and making a name for himself in the Heritage Foundation crowd.

something stinks...something ain't right, and something isn't quite adding up for me as far as he is concerned..

and...usually, I'm right about my feelings

;-)

He sells himself as a Small Business person because he owned a bar in Allentown. His wealth was created on Wall Street.

but the Wall Street part is somewhat believable

I doubt any of them are major money-makers, but they are obviously steady income sources.

He has my support and appreciation for that. If I were in Penn I would certainly now support Joe but I am almost positive I have lost the biggest advocate for medical research and Joe will come no where near offering the same degree of advocacy. Medical research and academia has lost a friend and advocate.

Arlen was a very hard fighter on money for research and he was that way for years. Perhaps another Senator will pick it up. Joe Sestak will have other issues. His daughter did have cancer so it is possible Joe will share Arlen's passion.

One, he only turned for his political skin, two, it's time to go. Some time in your political life you MUST let the new dogs in.

:hi:

Inferiority complex even in victory?

I have issues with Joe Sestak, politically. I stop posting those after the primary.

and throw in the NJ Turnpike.

I have plenty of New Jersey transplants I know, who are much happier here.

goodnight, I don't think your advice on this subject is valid at all.

Not taking Christie.

and you can have ALL our politicians, if you are not happy with a fifth of yours!!!

seriously, I just want a house on the ocean...ever since I was a kid

yup, it's yours , give me Joe and get Christie the hell out of here.

in our lifetimes!!

We have a plan to do it, however there is a problem.

We just can't figure out how to deal with the environmental impact of all that garbage going into the ocean.

Ok, love you Jersey peeps. You aren't from eastern PA if you don't rag on Jersey.

for jobs and stuff...because, about a third of the workers in this town reside in Jersey, yet bitch about the fact that we have State Stores who only sell liquor!

It KILLS me!!!! It fucking KILLS ME!!!!

Seriously, normally you are crossing the border to help us out.

what I'm hearing is that "He's too old...how long will he last" or "He switched his party affiliation just to get reelected" Fact is he has done a great deal for this state and I know my state...Pennsylvanians don't forget what their elected officials have accomplished when they put them in office....especially when they re-elect them for as long as they did with Spector. This was a tough call for many people who ended up voting for Sestak

Who, I confess I know next to nothing about

And was sorry to see him lose.

I'll vote for Sestak with enthusiasm in November, but I also know that the NIH lost its single biggest champion yesterday.

And I know you'll be supporting Joe, too.

Call me a party loyalist or just supporting someone because the President does.

:rofl:

I supported Arlen because of what he did, and that he stood in the GOP as long as he did trying to move it leftward.

I can name a few democratic Senators to the right of Arlen, in 2006, when he was Republican.

Thanks for sharing. :hi:

Let's just try our best to stop Toomey: he's terrifying...

:shrug:

First, recent poll results indicate that Sestak has a better shot at beating Toomey, especially since Specter was pretty much at his name recognition peak, while Sestak was not.

Second, Specter's opportunism made it unlikely that he would be a reliable Democratic vote in the long term, and he supported or participated in some pretty awful things as a Republican.

1) I have not been impressed with the Sestak operation. I could be totally wrong, but I saw him destroyed by Pat Toomey in a debate in August.

2) Want me to list the awful things some long term democrats have supported including the Sec. of State (IRAQ) and the President (FISA) while in the Senate. I'd take Arlen over Baucus or Lincoln any day. Sestak is a little too pro Military Industrial Complex for my taste.

This vote came down to the Afghan escalation and Arlen's history of standing up to his former party, a lot of times.

You make good points, however, I don't think it's a mistake, ever, for anyone to vote for the candidate they choose to no matter what the trends are. The trend was that Obama was going to be the likely nominee in 2008, but I still voted for Kucinich. I don't regret my vote, nor do I think it was a mistake.

Then he started his swift-boat style stuff attacking Sestak's military record.


At that point, my vote flipped.


They hold the same positions, generally... and I was going to give Arlen the benefit of the doubt. But when he pulled that shit against Sestak, I knew that I couldn't vote for him. I couldn't reward that style of campaigning.


I know that "politics ain't beanbag". But going after a 31-year Navy veteran because he was forced to resign because of a personality conflict with his new boss, that was pretty low.


It showed me that Arlen still had a little too much "Republican" in him.

You weren't taking that out of him.

...

It will be old news in the General. Arlen is a veteran. Toomey is not. That does not stop Toomey from using a 3rd party to run that ad. Arlen didn't swiftboat. Every ad said I'm Arlen Specter and I endorse this message. Arlen through the punch himself, and didn't have a third party do it. Since the ad was run in the primary it will be less effective in a general election.

...but it is your vote.

I voted for a democratic candidate in a democratic primary based on issues that were important to me and character. I think you should be sorry if I voted for a Republican candidate.

...you've already stated in your OP some of the reasons why others may not like him, and you aren't interested in discussing those. I could, but I don't want to hi-jack your thread, and we probably agree more than we disagree.

If you don't like Arlen Specter, the man is out of elected office in January of 2011 for good.

Why would you argue the day after he lost with one of his former supporters who is now supporting your chosen candidate. Seems like a foolish thing to do ;-)

...:)

but even if he wins it is a sort of win for democrats, because he is going to be more of a headache to the GOP leadership than even Bunning was.

With gusto, as I recall.

and didn't the future democratic majority leader vote for it as well?

How would have Sestak voted than :shrug:

Don't know, he was in uniform.

in letters to those who support it, while seeking GLBT votes by claiming to now regret the vote. So he is what he is.
I am absolutely unsure what other people's votes have to do with Arlen's vote. Please explain. Everyone who voted for it was wrong, including Wellstone. I do not think the vote of one is mitigated by that of another. Why do you?

but one of my best friends was on his GLBT outreach team and had an email of things Specter had done for the community over the years. I trust him on that issue more than myself as I am a supporter of the community, I am not of that community and I'm not an activist on that issue or educated enough to fully understand it.

Joe offended that person several times when they were negotiating support. I'm not sure the specifics but he is supportive of Sestak now that he won, but was Pro-Arlen as was one of my mentors in the party who is also Gay.

It was disgraceful, but it was what it was.

much less one of the Republicans.

...and I was one of them.

My reasoning is simple, support for medical research and the NIH. There isn't a single better advocate for that than Arlen Specter. Not to mention how he held out being pro-choice as a Republican during the Bush years. That took guts (not even the Dem Casey could achieve it) and I'll never forget it.

support for Spector in Philly...I was halfway expecting some cynicism from him switching party lines because of the Sestak ads ( that is ALL I saw from the Sestak ads ) but know he has always been in good standing with the people here.

He was the District Attorney there for years and has always been good to Philly.

That's why Sestak's ads may not have had that strong of an effect. A bigger factor was undoubtedly having the political machine behind him. Unions, black clergy, that's what truly wins you Philly.

*Not me. That would have been going too far, though I admittedly respected Specter back then.

what Spector fought for during his years will be what the people of this state remember most

now...there is Sestak-D ( for definitive :)0 how many people fell for the rhetoric? How long will rhetoric prevail here? or anywhere else for that matter where true issues are at stake? This is a game to most of them...oh yes, the voters made their voices heard, but on who's ears those voices fall on will be the real test here. Spectors record speaks for itself....I responded to AllentownJakes post earlier and am STILL reading up on Sestak and anything else I can find out about him


been nothing but cheerleaders here for the real "D" in this forum for a while....instead of the fake "D"

because I respect your posts around here a lot.

But this OP stinks. Sorry man, I think you're missing a few bigger pictures on this one.

I've kept mostly quiet on this race as far as the mud slinging, people from outside PA are viewing things on a perception that does not match reality.

And I can't say I care much for Specter.

But as a resident of PA, you know better than I do about your own races (and that's not sarcasm).

....you call 'em as you see 'em....a man's got to do what a man's got to do....

I understand your reasons, but could never completely forgive him for Anita Hill.

What he did then was thuggish and abusive.

In short, I'm glad it turned out the way it did..

because Toomey will be a frigging disaster

Lots of gutsy talk - then no action.

And, yes, Anita Hill still rankles.

And I don't think anyone should be heaped with praise for being pro-choice. That really ought to be the default position. It's like expecting to be congratulated for being against racism.