The Oil Spill: Many DUers seem to be following the RW meme that the Obama

administration is not in charge, is not calling the shots, and has not responded to the crisis. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I do not mean this to be flame-bait and recommend this reading on the govt response:

http://www.doi.gov/news/doinews/Update-5-20-2010-The-Ongoing-Administration-Wide-Response-to-the-Deepwater-BP-Oil-Spill.cfm

and http://www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com/go/site/2931/

Indexed here: http://www.doi.gov/deepwaterhorizon/index.cfm

So Obama is responsible for a gulf full of oil and a gush taking over a month to fix?


Honestly, that "meme" about the government relying too much on BP seems to paint a better picture.

Maybe repairing the disaster is more complex will take more time than the current news cycle allows.

B: Why is BP still in charge of ANYTHING?

Or the administration? Hard to tell. Or are they the same thing in your mind?

They are obviously the same thing in your mind.

I didn't say you were, I asked if you were. Wasn't sure if you were just innocently posting your thoughts, or were actually using a ploy for promoting a point of view about this. You answered that for us with your response.

And a fair bit anti-Obama at that.

administration. As for BP, I expect them to be prosecuted as soon as the leak is stopped.

I have not posted anything anti-Obama or pro BP.

Yeah...Im not sure where you are going here.

install safety equipment and a well shutdown valve. I guess I can blame him for that.

But they both needed to respond appropriately.

Any response that leaves that gush going for a month, BP any part involved, and a gulf full of oil is insufficient.

The situation remains pretty much as fucked up today as a month ago...we just know a bit more how fucked up. Either Obama is screwing up by giving BP too much control, or fucking up by being in control personally of a failing operation. Take your pick as a "defense".

Sorry but, that is a fact. It is too deep and has too much pressure. Equipment to fix it barely exists. Solutions were not worked out in advance and proper safety equipment was not required.

Obama has responded appropriately but, that does not change any of the above items.

W did not respond appropriately to Katrina. The response to the two events are not similar.

I don't choose to accept that "fact".


And if was a fact, why is BP fucking around for weeks with the dog and pony show trying experimental ways to cap it? Why did Obama send his super smart expert to figure out how to cap it (its going to take 3 months anyway)? That doesn't make sense.

Is the Obama administration and BP playing everyone for fools, trying to keep people passive while 3 months tick away?

Are you sure you are defending anyone here?

in following NEPA and associated environmental laws in regards to the BP Gulf Disaster but also the MMS program in general.

BP, Deep Horizons, Halliburton, et al were beyond their ability, knowledge, greed, and/or combined will.

The Feds did not do their part -- my argument would be for more scientists ,regulators, and hard assets for oversight and a new look at oil royalties paid to Feds and States -- also IMO gross breaches of environmental laws enacted under Nixon have occurred and have been eroded since Reagan systematically. I do not expect POTUS Obama to have this range of knowledge but Salazar is no fool about these matters and was a poor appointment.

This is a very horrendous ecological and human disaster in the making.

Hope for the best all.

Salazar and MMS and BP are the big fails.

We observe only the posturing and deliberate fog in media IMO.

BTW kudos Oregone as you cut to the chase as a general case.

All of BP's other dangerous rigs are still in operation. RW Meme, my ass!

1. BP lied about the severity originally. They will be held accountable.
2. Sometimes it takes more than a month to fix something.

They should have brought in petroleum engineers and oceanographers who had no relation to BP. They should have made BP allow them to observe what the hell was going on and look at the data. BP should have had to explain to them what was what.

They have closed independent scientists out. Not allowed people to film the spill at the beach. NOAA's main research vessel was in the western Gulf studying plankton at the very moment the WH released a statement saying they had been diverted to the spill. The captain said he didn't know anything about it.

That's for starters. Don't equate a lot of activity with taking the proper actions.

AND I'm not following any RW meme. I've been reading about this spill since day one and formed my own conclusions. I've looked at a lot of sources and not used just one or two as the gospel. I've bitched about it since then too.

We Progressives had seen over the last fifteen months

One) Big Insurers being made to be held accountable. That would have included enforced roll back on all the astronomical health insurance premiums the Big Insurers socked us consumers with right before the bill was finally signed. Instead of that happening, A Health Care "Reform Bill" was put together to allow for the fleecing of America and also, the legalized mandating that we buy the crap product was considered a "victory" by the White House.

Two) The Wall Street crowd has done nothing but use their new founded wealth to continue to destroy our economy. The passage of this Financial Reform Act is little more than putting a bandaid on a cancerous tumor.

Yes, I know, it is possible that BP will in the end face the $ 1,000 a barrel fine for this leak. Which would total in the billions. But at this point I am not holding my breath.

And I am in good company. Sixty percent of all Dems are aware of the fact that the CorporRATe Big Shots hold the Strings pulling this Administration along.

And from the Rasmussen polls earlier this week, forty one percent of all Americans admit that they feel that selecting our Congress Critters at random out of a phone book might leave us in better shape.

OSHA can't tell us what is going on because BP won't release the data: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=8367670

EPA backs down on telling BP to switch chemicals (from their proprietary stash, of which they own 1/3 of the global supply): http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4392561

Those are just *3* examples off the top of my head.

and flow rates.

What OSHA has asked for and BP declined to provide.

Thanks in advance.

BP is using two different types of Corexit dispersants. What's the difference? What can you tell us about about the ingredients or chemical composition of these products?
BP is using Corexit 9500A and 9527A. These dispersants perform the same function, but have different formulations. EPA posts information about all authorized dispersants on our National Contingency Plan (NCP) Product Schedule website.

All the information EPA can make public about these dispersants can be found on the Product Schedule. You may notice that some of the ingredients are confidential. This is because the manufacturer has chosen to keep this information proprietary, and as a result EPA is obligated by law to protect this information. However, NALCO, the manufacturer of Corexit products can choose to make this information available.

More at: http://www.epa.gov/bpspill/dispersants.html#q13

Oil, natural gas, methane, what else and how much of it??

And WHY isn't OSHA out there taking their own measurements?

Nothing like transparency, is there? Also, I'm really impressed by the lack of conflict of interest.:evilgrin:

though, interesting to read.

But BP told them to fuck off, so they did.

It's all good! :thumbsup:

I don't really think we can blame cheney/bush for that crap. Sure seems like BP and the other companies involved are making all the decisions when nobody else can get facts.

and WHAT they are dumping in the gulf to create these sinking blobs.

I can't do a damn thing about stopping its spew, but we DO have the right to know what is in our air/water.

The GOVERNMENT is responsible for forcing them to produce this information, and all they have done in this to date is send 'harshly worded letters' asking BP to comply while BP responds with "um, nope".

disaster. BP is calling the shots and it's far past time that they are not.

I'm an engineer (not in petroleum field) but, have a hard time believing that anyone working on this problem isn't 100% committed to stopping the flow as quickly as possible.

The press has done a terrible job of covering this from day one and is now pressing the RW meme that the Obama administration is not doing anything. My only hope was that some DUers would take the time to read some of the facts.

They are failing in allowing BP to lie and cover up information, block reporters from covering it, block scientists from taking samples ans measurements.

HUGE difference.

and get (hopefully) some people in that do know what they are doing. If BP hadn't f***ed this up from the beginning, we wouldn't be in this mess. They have a criminal undertone in this disaster, and I hope to hell that they are held accountable for it.

Our government isn't in the business of stopping oil geysers - they rely on the BPs to file emergency and contingency plans.

Our government DOES need to step in and demand transparency from them though.

in this as well. Who knows how far this oil will travel, and what damage it will inflict on other countries of the world.

Iran was the first to offer their scientists and engineers. Haven't heard anything since.

seeing with their own two eyes. So you going to believe what the govt/BP are telling you or your lying eyes!? I'm sure the average worker (like yourself) is fully committed to stop the flow, but unfortunatly this is POLITICAL and is looking very bad for Obama. Sorry, but that is the way it is stacking up.

Don't tell me to take the time to read the facts. In addition, there is so much crap being spouted that it's hard to keep up with what is a fact.

The way BP has changed their tune at times, the facts are relative. I don't believe BP. They have probably muzzled their employees with nondisclosure contracts.

There has been little development in technology to drill in deep water safely or to clean up spills. We are using methods from the 1960's to clean it up. BP is also being allowed to check every type of method that might be used to clean it up. They had to approve Costner's machine that could clean the oil. Why do they get approval rights??

When you drill that deeply, you are going to hit a field with a lot of oil under a lot of pressure from the water and rock above it. The psi is extreme. In addition, the oil is extremely hot when it comes out, and it is entering very cold water. The casings have to be able to handle this over a long period of time.

The oil isn't the only problem. They always fear a methane blast coming up. That field has trillions of cubic feet of methane in it.

Once it was clear that BP had no clue about stopping the oil flow, they should have at least called on people with some expertise in deep water drilling to help.

Obama is not calling the shots here. Corporations run this country and they're running this show.

The President's job is to front for them and continue the illusion that we have any say or any choice. They give us Coporate candidate A, Corporate candidate B and all we get to do is rubberstamp their selections.

"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre."
— Frank Zappa

I have been following the spill since day one. I have formed my own opinions and developed my own arguments. Just because I have criticized what I am seeing doesn't mean I am following the GOP. That is a false equivalence.

I wouldn't listen to the Nopers on how to change cat litter.

...and you feel they are...as do they....then don't you think they need to do a better job of controlling the message?

Other than Gibbs telling the press corps that they are doing all they can, I don't hear anything else coming from them.
Not everyone is going to google to see what is being done to clean this mess up.

I keep hearing about these sand islands that will absorb the oil, but they can't get approval to do so.

There's just too many unanswered questions.

The WWL website often shows press conferences live. So far there is normally one a day or at least four a week.

Watch a few of them and it becomes quite apparent who their real employers are.

It's not a meme when it's the truth.

anything, my post would be locked in a minute for making sweeping accusations of DU members.

"What I don't like from the president's administration is this sort of, you know, "I'll put my boot heel on the throat of BP." I think that sounds really un-American in his criticism of business. I've heard nothing from BP about not paying for the spill. And I think it's part of this sort of blame game society in the sense that it's always got to be someone's fault. Instead of the fact that maybe sometimes accidents happen. I mean, we had a mining accident that was very tragic and I've met a lot of these miners and their families. They're very brave people to do a dangerous job. But then we come in and it's always someone's fault. Maybe sometimes accidents happen."

The people here at DU whom you are criticizing and misrepresenting are arguing the opposite point of view.

That about spun the OPs' head around, if he read it.

To equate our discussions with what the teabaggers are saying is more BP'ish and rovian than the normal person could accomplish.

However, some good Duers did get in some fine observations as a result. Good job yall. Nice read.