"The great majority of Americans no longer matter." (NYT Op-Ed).

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/22/opinion/22herbert.html?src=me&ref=general

"No one knows how much of BP’s runaway oil will contaminate the gulf coast’s marshes and lakes and bayous and canals, destroying wildlife and fauna — and ruining the hopes and dreams of countless human families. What is known is that whatever oil gets in will be next to impossible to get out. It gets into the soil and the water and the plant life and can’t be scraped off the way you might be able to scrape the oil off of a beach.

It permeates and undermines the ecosystem in much the same way that big corporations have permeated and undermined our political system, with similarly devastating results."

Strange as that may seem...

Plenty of them still imagine that somewhere far, far away, deep in the beautiful mountains of Market-Magic Land, there's a special gated community where their money and status will keep them safe from (A) all of this and (B) all of us.

A lot of Texans, for instance, love to go fishing in the Gulf and hunting/birding in the marshes. Same in other states. I don't see the rich as monolithic in this case, especially if their "playground" is destroyed.

:shrug:

go back to the polls in 2010 and 2012 and vote for the politicians who do the best job of convincing us that things aren't that bad after all, and that if we just keep doing what we've been doing, things will turn out fine in the end.

and FBI and police and CIA and NSA and military and the massive corporate/police state apparatus we have in the USA?

We sold all of our civil liberties for 100 million Americans when a hand full of fuckers hijacked air planes.

They read the message boards, they take names they wire tap, they infiltrate. Thanks to our tax dollars.

Any protest is met with 10X the counter force - the media mocks you.

They used a couple of dumb ass criminals to start a war against the non-rich here and abroad. It is just getting worse under Obama.

The horrific irony of all of this is that the our own CIA working with FBI agents they had subjugated at FBI HQ had actually intentionally allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to carry out the attacks on 9/11.

In fact there is now iron clad proof of this. See a web site www.eventson911.com for just a small fraction of the US governments own documentation that is iron clad proof of this.

128 bit encrypt AND no "back door".

Only moved back to the US as they crowned The idiot boy king. (not that Australia is perfect, but I feel safer!!) Even the Aussie RW looks at the US version and calls it crazy. 15years ago too!!

Cheers
Sandy

Millions of idiots are totally brainwashed by the pulpit pimps into believing that JC is going to rapture them up to heaven in a couple weeks while he leaves the godless Democrats on Earth to finish destroying the planet. It's downright shocking to see how many people are conned by this bullshit!

she said from the bible belt.

cheers
sandy

How many of the people who will be complaining about their lives being ruined by the oil gusher voted for Reagan twice, Bushes three times and Piyush Jindal for their governor? How many people who have for years decried the liberal "nanny state" will now be looking for the government to clean things up and get their lives back to the way they used to be? And how many of them will continue to dote on the words of Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck and Coulter, and continue to vote against their best interests even after this?

it just seemed in bad taste to even speculate about this while this enormous disaster is still unfolding, but it is not. The question is an absolutely valid one, and obviously the answer is that many, many of the same people who have their lives ruined by the policies of the right wing have voted for the leaders promoting those policies,believe the lies of Fox "news" & hate radio, and even now continue to. How to get them to wake up is something I wish to god i knew the answer to.

that a lot of people who never voted Republican and who knew that the anti-government, pro-business agenda promoted for decades by Reagan and the Bushes would lead to this sort of thing, will also have their lives ruined.

I've wondered exactly the same thing every time I see someone
crying on TV about how their life has been ruined.

Tesha

because they wont side with the Negro president and it seems like so much fun to vote out all incumbents. yeeehaww!

and I must say that I have wondered the same thing.

Another question I have is for Rand Paul and those staunch Libertarian's:

At what point do you consider 'personal property rights'? In the case of BP, what exactly would be their 'personal property'? Would it strictly be their oil wells? Or do their 'personal property rights' include all of the Gulf?

Which business, in this case, takes precedent over another? Is it OK for BP to infringe on the entire livelihoods of the Gulf Coast fisherman in the name of 'business'? Or ruin the livelihoods of those in the tourist trade? After all, oil, fishing and tourism are all valid businesses, and in the mind of the Libertarian, all have a right to conduct business without 'interference' from the Government. Where do you draw the line, or not?

Early man, circa 10,000 BC, worked on the premise of 'good for the tribe', because it was essential for his survival. There was no room for libertarianism in 10,000 BC. Man could not take down a Woolly Mammoth on his own, he needed the help of his fellow tribesmen. He needed to provide for not only himself, but his entire tribe in order to be able to survive and produce offspring. Without a tribe mentality, the human race would have gone the way of dinosaurs a long time ago.

IMO, the concept of Libertarians sound good on paper, but have little basis in reality.

Just pondering the meaning of life on a Sunday morning.....

I don't have any answers for ya but I know that the Woolly Mammoth would kick Ron Paul's ass.

The idea the Libertarians and many Repubs push about 'personal property' is just so much crap. The fact is that people are just temporary owners of any particular piece of property. Inevitably the property will be sold to a 'new' owner. Therefore the idea that you as the current steward of a piece of property should be able to do whatever you want to it doesn't fly to me. Of course, the capitalists will tell you it would be against an owners best interest to hurt the property because it will lower the value. This ignores the fact that if the resources (oil, coal, etc) are worth more in the long haul than the property then these people have no problem in trashing the land and then just selling it off so the cleanup becomes some other person's (or the Government's)problem. This doesn't even address the idea of what if my use of my 'personal property' rights infringes on the right of my neighbor from having their 'personal property' protected from oil spills, mine waste and whatever.

cesspool leaches into the ground water and poisons the community the cesspool's owner is accountable, except if the cesspool's owner has the legislature on the payroll. At least that's how it works here.
As long as big oil keeps the money flowing to secret off shore accounts, no one will be held accountable.
Was anyone held responsible for the security failures of 9-11?

for the comment on personal property being so much crap! When it comes down to it, who actually has the RIGHT to own personal property, anyhow? From whom was a piece of land ORIGINALLY purchased? Was a deal struck with Mother Nature? Why are we so arrogant as to believe we have the 'right' to personal property, and then eventually trash it?

To quote a favorite margarine commercial of mine:

"It's not nice to fool Mother Nature!"

and our grandchildren.



and we sure as hell owe it to them to take better care of it!!!!!!!!!!!!

He's a light weight who can impress morons.

very sick country.

we can't pull a Katrina and just because they're black or democrat or republican or whatever we'll let them drown.

We need to get facts out front and fix this shit. The leak is what it is, but hearing the white house keep repeating the BP mantra of only 5000 barrela a day is infuriating when its so obviously a lie at this point.

If Obama doesn't get his ass moving we will set ourselves up for a republicans attack. Obama might think he is tough enough to withstand it, but millions of people who live along the gulf will suffer.

Get BP off of this project NOW!

Fascism on the entire world.

:cry:

Bah.

with the BANKSTERS and now THIS, the PERP (BP) in charge of THEIR own crime scene, calling all the shots, with 'our' gov taking a backseat, and setting up finger pointing committees... who can still deny this?

years of practice.

The M$M has had decades of practice, and it certainly shows.

:hi:

"Brain eating Zombies awakened by Toxic Oil Sludge" :(

same shit, different millennium

I would submit it hurts. When has punching holes in things ever been good?

:kick:

tragic that human nature sinks so easily, so that most lessons we learn come only at the business end of a huge nail-studded baseball bat to the face.

kr

death and destruction stems from those Behind Closed Doors Meetings held by Darth and his oil boyz.

Whoever approved of this deep-sea drilling needs to be dressed in orange.

This is criminal. And if those dildos claim, 'Oh golly gee, how would we ever know that such a thing could possibly happen (ie just like 9/11), then say what the cop says to me, 'Ignorance is no excuse.'

These greedy, oily f*cks were operating in a completely dangerous fashion in a place where no one knew what could happen.

Mother Nature has had it.

Thanks for the thread, WinkyDink.

matter from the beginning?

The documents said so, but the specifics of our schizophrenic Constitution really didn't!!

As we have tried to make ourselves relevant the elites increasingly have tried to reverse

all gains.

The youthful revolution of the 1960's -- often called the "sexual revolution" while it was

really an overall attack on authority and the BS of most of our hierarchies of power and

systems -- from medical care, childbirth, to food -- very largely succeeded!

In fact, it succeeded so well that the GOP had to finance the Christian Coalition -- a tool

they've been waving for decades now -- to try to reestablish patriarchy/hierarchal authority.

The whole right wing "Christian" uprising was pretty much financed by the right wing wealthy --

Richard Scahife financed Dobson's organization -- and other wealthy financed Bauer's organization.

US right wing/CIA also worked to create a violent interpretation of Islamic religion --

creating -- literally writing and printing -- the very textbooks our "free press" later showed

to us whereby Muslims were being taught violence from these vile books!


So -- we begin with women and Native Americans as not full citizens --

and the only males who had the vote were males who owned property!

We began with concepts of genocide vs the native American and enslavement of the

African here -- topped off by Papal Bulls instructing their enslavement or murder!

We've progressed some in my opinion -- but we have to understand the right wing/elites never

sleep -- their motivation is to have and control everything -- and their main tool is violence.

that they keep dumping in the Gulf (almost a million gallons as of now). This is nothing short of environmental terrorism.

This is all we matter to them.
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