Had a fight with my cousin

My cousin in Florida usually sends me innocuous stuff, pictures of cats flushing toilets, you know the kind. Occasionally she sends me right wing political commentary, which I tend to ignore and often just delete. However, the day after I attended the Colorado State Assembly, she sent me this garbage:

This is an example of the liberal reasoning with which I must try to live.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg0pDPK56Ys
They don't get any more stupid than this one!

She followed up with this:

MEXICO IS ANGRY !
"Three cheers for Arizona
The shoe is on the other foot and the Mexicans from the State of Sonora, Mexico doesn't like it. Can you believe the nerve of these people? It's almost funny. The State of Sonora is angry at the influx of Mexicans into Mexico . Nine state legislators from the Mexican State of Sonora traveled to Tucson to complain about Arizona 's new employer crackdown on illegals from Mexico .
It seems that many Mexican illegals are returning to their hometowns and the officials in the Sonora state government are ticked off.
A delegation of nine state legislators from Sonora was in Tucson on Tuesday to state that Arizona 's new Employer Sanctions Law will have a devastating effect on the Mexican state.

New Immigration Laws: Read to the bottom or you will miss the message... "

So that did it for me. I was psyched up from the Assembly, and I fired off one reply with pics of the Gulf oil spill, since during the campaign she was claiming there'd never been any oil spills there, even during Katrina (which she now denies doing) and then replied to the other with pics of the ignorant racist teabaggers and asking why she was siding with them.

I got this back:

"Now I am ticked off. I can't believe that you are for illegal immigrants getting the same benefits that you, I and millions of others have worked hard for. They are given free food, food stamps, medical care, social security cards, schooling and don't have to pay taxes. They get so much free stuff why should they become citizens? Also it seems as though Spanish is becoming a second language and pushing to be first. Illegal's need to be sent back where they came from and enter this country legally just like our grandparents and other people from other countries. They are also taking away jobs from U.S. citizens. I really don't fault them for this, I fault the employers. They, illegal's, look for work and the stupid employers hire them because they can pay them less money. I am an independent voter and I don't care if you are a Democrat or Republican or independent, illegal's need to be sent back where they came from!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and enter this country legally."

She went on about how our grandparents (we're Italian) came here legally and faced discrimination, but worked hard and became citizens, and how the dead Italian and Irish babies were not even recorded with names, and how the dead Italian and Irish workers were buried in the back of the cemetary, etc. She also chastized me for my language (I used the words "liberal and damn proud of it" and "racist crap" in my reply.

So, DU, was I off base? Do I owe her an apology, or is she truly a RW racist wacko? I think I have one less cousin after this, and I'd like your input.

They pay sales taxes. They pay taxes on their homes (or pay rent, which their landlords use to pay taxes). They pay taxes on their cars, etc.

This notion that just because one doesn't pay income taxes one doesn't pay taxes is absurd! Especially if you live in a state like Tennessee where we don't have a state income tax, so our regressive sales tax is nearly 10 percent.

Like hell, they don't pay taxes.

But, I somewhat agree with her position on the employers who hire those not authorized to work in this country. If we'd fine their asses, then there wouldn't be an immigration problem. People wouldn't come to the United States to work if there were no jobs.

You may try to continue the debate but I predict that it won't end well.

When it comes to family who are far right-wing, I just avoid the conversation as much as possible by changing the subject. They're never going to change, they've clung to their ideals their entire life and quite frankly I don't have the energy to put up with their shit.

I had to listen to the same claptrap when relatives from CO/AZ visited last week. I just listened (since they were paying for lunch) because I knew nothing I said could change their view. Everyone except the First People of this continent started out as "illegal aliens."

Everyone knows lazy good for nothing liberals don't have any money to hire anyone, all business owners are true blue... err.. red conservatives.

It therefore follows that anyone employing an illegal alien is a conservative.

/snark

The fact that she's family doesn't necessarily force you one way or the other. It will alienate her but maybe that's a good thing.

Tell her not to send you any more political stuff, period. Tell her if she does, you will have to block her mail and that you'll keep in touch by phone, visit, snail mail, whatever.

Then do it.

Right wing blowhards have convinced her that bullying is an acceptable form of political discourse. She can use you as a political punching bag only with your permission. Only by setting this limit and enforcing it can you salvage any relationship with her.

You know the rest. Independent, my big fat fanny. Sounds to me like she's been brainwashed by the teabagging lot, and won't hear the voice of reason. If you feel the need to apologize in order to keep peace in the family, then go for it, but it seems to me the more we apologize for telling the truth the less likely the truth will be heard.

Good luck. I know what it's like to have closed-minded family. Most of mine are "straight, white and southern" and by now know not to talk politics or religion around me. We get along fine as long as everyone follows the "rules."

Neither of you really has any power over the outcomes of your arguments so you shouldn't let this destroy personal relationships and family.

If you don't get along about politics, just tell her to please remove you from her mailing list and avoid political discussion. That's what I've had to do with my family because it just isn't worth fighting about during any family gathering. Now we have an understanding and we all have a great time. If anyone *does* mention politics or makes some off hand remark or comment, everyone else just ignores it rather than fuels the fire.

and the wards bosses in the big cities but giving out charity to new Italian, Irish, etc immigrants. Remind her of St. Frances Cabrini -- patron saint of immigrants. A quick google of some of the nice names that they gave to these sooo wanted immigrants: mick, wop, etc. will show her how loved those immigrants were in their time. Drunks, criminals, theives, etc. Pull up the Know-Nothing party and send it to her.

As far as it being a CRIME to be an illegal, well OK... but so is running a stop sign. The real question is what magnitude of crime? There's mass murder, pedolphilia, simple murder, rape, crapping up the Gulf of Mexico big time, crapping up the Gulf of Mexico small time, cheating big time on your taxes as a corporation, hiring illegal workers and paying them less minimum wage, cheating on your taxes as an individual, hitting another car in a car accident and injuring the occupants, speeding, littering, etc. So where does illegal alien fit in here?

My ancestors came over on the Mayflower and True Love a long long long time ago and I don't recall them going through official channels. In fact I'm sure the original inhabitants wished they'd just go back too.

But that's not the point. What makes the Arizona law offensive is that it gives the police the right to request papers proving citizenship from anyone. But the reality is they won't ask for papers from everyone only people who 'look' Hispanic. Which is racial profiling and what everyone is so upset about.

Your cousin's anger at businesses that hire illegals is not misplaced. The problem is republicans and businesses lobby our government to make sure there are no real consequences for hiring illegal workers. My uncle has worked for the federal government for more than 30 years and every time they get close to writing legislation that would really penalize businesses that do this it gets shot down or blocked by the very people she votes for.

But she reveals her racism in complaining about their language and thinking they are just here to take advantage of services.

Ignore her. She's too blinded by hate to 'get' it.

They were legal by English law, but I doubt that the native people considered my ancestors legal! Later, some of my ancestors help settle Alabama, again displacing people who had been in Alabama for centuries.

As my husband says, the U.S. stole our Southwest from Mexico fair and square--at the end of a gun barrel!

And that's exactly the direction the Democrats should steer the argument. Massive fines for hiring of undocumented workers. Make it hurt.

Correct. Punish the employers should be the point we stress 24/7. Without jobs, you remove most of the incentive to immigrate to America.

On a side note, I would just let the family politic issue slide. My family disagrees on politics all the time, but we all realize it is not worth ruining family over.

Macoy

I never get any email from family or friends or anyone else that's offensive whether it's politics, racist, misyginest, or whatever because they either already know I will immediately complain or they'll find that out the first time they send me something like that. People that send this kind of crap do it because it never crosses their mind that not everyone thinks like them, and it continues because far too many people don't immediately complain when this stuff is sent or said right to their face. If you don't speak up then people like this will assume that they're opinions are valid and correct and will continue to be oblivious to the fact that they're being offensive and continue to be oblivious to the fact that most people don't agree with their bigoted right-wing opinions. If people don't immediately stand up and say they're offended by this shit and to never again bring anything like it to their attention again they'll never stop and keep on spewing ugly bigoted right-wing shit at everyone they meet and everyone they know honestly believing that everyone agrees with them.

There's no need for an argument and you most certainly don't owe any apology for your opinions especially when she brought this offensive shit into your face. The very first time she sent you some offensive crap you should have told her your politics are completely opposite, your offended that she assumed you would appreciate the offensive shit and you never want to see anything like it again. The end. If she wants to argue, then you tell her you aren't going to participate in a pointless argument with someone with a firmly closed mind. THE END. There is never any point to trying to argue with someone with a closed mind and to do so ALWAYS results in bad feelings all around.

My in-laws went nuts with their yipee-Bush nonsense. We told them to stop. We received hate mail from them. My husband took some time off from them because they couldn't get control of themselves for several months. I took off more than a year. We had to. We were getting hate mail for not agreeing. And guess what- they learned. We no longer have to hear about their politics of hate and destruction. And if they start in again, we're prepared to take a break from them again. And they know it.

and everybody needs to remember that you don't argue with RWers to convert them. Most of the time that's impossible, but you argue with them to influence the undecided, squishy middle. They NEED to here RW talking points rebutted, so they don't think that EVERYBODY thinks like those nuts.

As to the conversion part though, my brother (big Liberal) got into it with a distant cousin a couple of years ago and we recently found out that said cousin actually wound up VOTING for Obama. So I guess occasionally you can even convert the RW, at least temporarily.

Of course then there's the other side of it. My wife's family on her Dad's side pretty much disowned her for arguing pro choice one year at Christmas. We haven't seen them since. I'm OK with it and she SEEMS to be OK with it, but I do wonder if she is REALLY OK with it.

These "illegals" supposedly get "free food" AND "food stamps." If they get free food, why do they need food stamps? If they get food stamps, why do they need free food?

Sounds to me like just more ranting from people who enjoy making themselves furious by imagining that people who come into this country undocumented are getting all sorts of things for free that they would have to pay for to get...a DVD player, a big-screen plasma TV, an XBox, an iPod, a pony...IT'S JUST SO DAMN UNFAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!