A Sad Story I was Told this Weekend, re: "illegal" immigrants

I have a friend--just an acquaintence really but we enjoy what little time we have together for "girl talk"--who confided that her uncle was here illegaly.

We were talking about the lunatics on I-25 when she told me. She said he is a very cautious when he drives. He always drives at or below the speed limit, uses his turn signal when changing lanes, etc etc etc because--as you can imagine--one little infraction can mean a trip back to his home country. She said it breaks his heart because he sees people roaring up and down the roads all day long taking the laws for granted. He's being called a lawbreaker for wanting a better life but the people who happened to have been born here by accident drive 70 mph through a 55 mph work zone and coast through stop signs.

I really took what she said to heart.

It made me want to cry.

yes, i'm a lawbreaker too! i speed sometimes.

Yet he obeys the day-to-day laws better than most Americans.

The hypocrisy is saddening.

People who are here illegally are subject to deportation when apprehended.

Different offenses, different penalties. Both are lawbreakers.

Where are the state troopers in Arizona pulling people over on suspicion that they might speed?
Where are the accusations that people who run stop signs are bringing leprosy into the country?
Where are the assaults on people who own fast cars, by people who are certain that they MUST be speeders?
Where is the 24/4 moral outrage about people who drive too fast on CNN, FOX, and MSNBC?

And how many people are killed every year due to someone crossing hte border, vs. how many are killed by speeding?

I love how people on DU suddenly get all Judge Dredd abut "THUH LAWR!" when it concerns illegal immigrants, but never any other time. Weed? The law is wrong! Arrests at a protest? The law is wrong! Investigation of questionable organizations? The law is wrong! Illegal immigrants? OMFG GUYS IT'S THE LAW AND YOU HAVE TO RESPECT THE LAW!!!

are illegal, but with different penalties for apprehension.

According to some reports, many are killed every year due to crossing the border, illegally. Some are left in trailers/trucks and suffocate, some expire during the trek due to dehydration. I would imagine that there are even some deaths among the ones passing illegally over the southern Mexican border even before they make it to the south of the US. Not THE answer you were looking for, but it is AN answer.

There's a difference between putting yourself at risk, and putting others at risk.

The thing is, illegal immigration is, at least in the US, just a variation on jaywalking, legally speaking. it's a misdemeanor you get from crossing somewhere you shouldn't.

However it's inflated into this gigantic moral outrage. It's used as justification for assaults on hispanics, legal or illegal or visiting or whatever. it fills up the airwaves with anger and outrage. Yet people are zooming around doing seventy in a fifty-five zone, and nobody says a damned thing. Sure htye might get caught eventually, but it doesn't generate a self-congratulatory, panting, masturbatory commentary from your news station, does it?

The OP's friend makes a good point. And you reinforce it.

to the sidewalk he recently left.

When he gets to the other side, he has crossed illegally and that infraction remains, but once on the other side, he can remain there legally and is not in violation of anything by being there.

Not so with the illegal immigrant. Crossed illegally, overstayed the temporary visa, marriage to a citizen is dissolved prior to becoming a citizen - if remains, remains illegally.

I was at a stop light the other day. The light in our direction turned green. I checked to my right and saw a guy coming like a bat out of hell. He went through a solid red stop light at about 70-80 mph -- right in front of a police cruiser. The cop did nothing.

So under the new rules you're breaking the law and thus need to be deported back to Europe. Sounds ridiculous now doesn't it.

from Denmark, became a citizen, served in the Army in WW1. I think one could call his actions legal.

Even had he not become a citizen, I was born here, as are many of the anchor babies who are born within hours of their mother's illegal crossing.

So what you typed is ridiculous.

What kind of ridiculous propaganda have you been listening to? Then again, I probably don't have to guess...

"Became a citizen, served in the Army in WW1." Became a citizen under who's rules? Under the rules from those who unlawfully immigrated to this land. Rules made by Europeans, not Americans. Secondly, served in the Army. Many Mexican and other citizens from south of the border have served and died in the armed forces of the US only to have their spouse and children denied citizenship.

So you see we can play ping pong with this all day. What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong, and calling another human being "illegal" is right up there with nazis forcing Jewish folks to wear a star of david on their clothes.

Lastly lets academically look at this shall we (relax agent smith, its just an academic discussion). You do realize we've been here for THOUSANDS of years longer than you, right? Sure of course you'll say yeah but the U.S. has established itself here now. To which I can say ok lets break that down shall we. How many treaties has the U.S. honored with those of us who've been here for thousands of years? Answer = none. How many treaties has the U.S. violated with those of us who've been here for thousands of years? Answer = every last one of them. The reason I exclude those pieces of land that money was handed out is because study your history. On those few occasions when this occurred it was either done by threat of armed action, or done unlawfully by those who didn't have the authority to sell anything, and against the wishes of those who were in authority. So then that means we're only left with the acts of armed force, murder, theft, terrorism, genocide, etc.

Now lets break that armed action down shall we to see exactly what it is you put down as 'legitimate'. Broken down what it amounts to is a group of people getting together and calling themselves by some name, then arming themselves and sticking guns into people's faces to remove by force property from them. Ok, lets apply that philosophy to test how legitimate that looks. Lets look at some group that has done exactly the same thing. Lets look at, say, a street gang from Los Angeles who we've seen on the news committing armed robbery in Las Vegas casinos. Here we have a group of people getting together and calling themselves by some name, then arming themselves and sticking guns into people's faces to remove by force property from them. Wow same exact thing.

Are you going to say the property these criminal thieves robbed now legitimately belongs to them? Of course not. Are you going to say that property still belongs to the rightful owners who were wrongfully robbed of it? Of course the answer is yes.

So you see if we break down what we're talking about here what's the difference between these two examples besides a mere illusion in our minds with one being right while the other, even though its the same exact thing, is wrong?

Ridiculous? Perhaps. But nothing I posted contradicts reality.

to be here has expired an illegal alien. Alien because he or she is a non citizen, illegal because there is no valid paperwork authorizing: continued residence because temporary visa has expired, marriage has dissolved prior to gaining citizenship, complete lack of paperwork due to coming across the border without anything at all.

proper channels and that's why he's so careful about the law - not because he has such respect for it which he obviously doesn't.

:rofl:

absurd

Although slave ownership by private individuals and businesses has been illegal in the United States since the 1865 ratification of the Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, the amendment does specifically allow "punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted".

Instances of illegal slavery are still found periodically. The United States Department of Labor occasionally prosecutes cases against people for false imprisonment and involuntary servitude. These cases often involve illegal immigrants who are forced to work as slaves in factories to pay off a debt claimed by the people who transported them into the United States. Other cases have involved domestic workers.<136>

There have been incidents of slavery amongst illegal immigrants working in agriculture. The Immokalee region in southern Florida, which grows most of the tomatoes eaten in the United States during the cold months, has had many cases of slavery. Since 1997, several prosecutions have resulted in over 1,000 slaves being freed.<137>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_United_States#Modern_slavery

It is a crime to speed

This "civil not criminal violation" shit is pathetic.

I have neighbors who have an illegal family living in their converted garage... can't be more than a couple hundred square feet... a husband, a wife, a little boy, and someone on the way. They are so happy... all they have is a garage, and a dinky little yard for the boy to play in, but they are so happy. I can't imagine what it is they came from that by way of comparison, this life in a garage is so much better that their joy for life becomes so apparent to all. They are awesome neighbors.

The only people in Los Angeles who drive at the speed limit are "illegals" and little kids with their learner's permit... I swear they are just little kids!

I can't complain about them... I just can't. I can't feel anything but compassion for them... and this makes me "the bad guy" with some of my family members. Ugh...

They might be awesome neighbors in their own country. They are illegals here.

I don't know any "illegals." I do know some hard-working people who don't have all their papers and probably make more of a contribution to their community than the people who spend all their time bitching about them.

I cringe whenever I see people treating other people with so little respect.

I'm especially upset with my Fundy Christian family right now... this is exactly what Jesus tried to teach them... compassion. The lack of compassion, the lack of empathy shown... it is subhuman NOT to feel for these people. To use them as pawns is despicable and subhuman.

And they already have a baby born here. They are happy because their life is so much better. They are lucky to have me as a neighbor... I don't think they'd like you quite as much... just a guess.

They are people, not pawns.

Make the corporations stop hiring them. That is the nexus of this crisis. The corporations are evil... the people are people and don't deserve this bullshit.

residence, up to building codes? is it unsafe?

And as far as I can see, it's up to code... there's a full bathroom and a small kitchen area... ventilated properly... several exits and windows. I watched them build it out from my bedroom balcony. I know many aren't as well appointed, but this one is.

Thanks.

labor.

The same polls that show a majority of Americans supporting Arizona's law also show a majority in favor of comprehensive reform, but that part doesn't get included in the stories.

We can't stop republicans from pursuing their fear-based "secure the border" with troops, walls, drones, helicopters, etc. It's a stupid, emotive strategy, but that is all they know how to do, so let them have it.

We have the Progressive Caucus, organized labor and many other liberal organizations behind comprehensive reform. The republicans, with help from a Blue Dog or two, can filibuster it to death in the Senate, but I would like to see us call their bluff on that.

what if he does have an accident and it's his fault? he can seriously injure someone and how would they ever recoup their financial losses if they were injured?

get drivers licenses. The state seems to view as a public safety issue to help make sure that drivers are qualified rather than using licenses as an immigration documents. I don't know about the availability of insurance.

Interesting how it's illegal to drive without insurance, but perfectly legal for insurance companies to sell that type of insurance. But then, they're just another corporation, right? They need those "illegals" too. Please note the irony quotes.

NT

I have it, and would never go without it... I've used it twice in the past 25 years.

It's a normal provision and has been for a long time. In essense, I'm paying the uninsured other guy's insurance premium.

This is just an ad page from an insurance co-op, but it explains it well.

snip...

Unless you live in New Hampshire or Wisconsin, liability auto insurance is required by state law. But even those states have "financial responsibility" laws that require you to have enough assets to pay for damages if you cause an accident and don't have auto insurance. Everywhere else, you must have car insurance to drive. If you fail to do so, you could face fines or even a jail sentence.


Most states consider mandatory liability insurance a good public policy. If you cause a car accident, the person you crashed into should be able to recoup their expenses from you. But, in some cases, the damages you cause could end up costing a lot more than your liability insurance limits cover.

The problem is, not everyone complies with the law. The cost of car insurance keeps many drivers from purchasing even a basic liability policy — especially in unstable economic times. The Insurance Research Council estimates that roughly one out of every six drivers may be driving uninsured by 2010. That's about 16 percent of the U.S. population.

No matter what the percentage of uninsured drivers on the road, it's prudent to carry uninsured motorist (UM) and underinsured motorist (UIM) coverage.


http://www.insure.com/car-insurance/uninsured.html

to include it?

I never heard that before and often wondered what our recourse would be if we were involved in an accident with an uninsured motorist.

I've always had it.

Other criminals.

Your ego? Your self-esteem? Or something else?

Nice guy or not.

How 'bout you? Any other laws out there you think people should feel free to violate at will? And be rewarded for it, at that?

Of absolutely nothing. But do keep spouting the same unconvincing argument.

The poster below said it best.

treated in Mexico? Both of these nations are considered poorer than Mexico and so many Central Americans are seeking a better life in Mexico than they can have in their own countries.



Edited to add the last sentence.

There wouldn't be an issue.

it treats undocumented individuals in their country?

Go fish again... :eyes:

other countries commit human rights violations?

point to open a discussion and dialogue between the two governments concerning the issue of immigration. I do find it rather outrageous for the Mexican president to come into the US and make disparaging remarks about our immigration laws given his own countries policies toward undocumented people.