BP Sucks...they have handled this very badly...but lets acknowledge one thing...

The BP employees who are working around the clock trying to get this thing plugged up, the engineers, technicians, boat crews etc really deserve to be recognized.

The guys controlling these robots under really tough conditions, both with the job they are tasked with doing, and the with the pressure they are under from management, the government and the public really deserve our thanks...they are working their asses off...

I hope when this is all over, as BP is righfully raked over the coals, we don't forget the efforts of these people....

...it's not the little guy slaving to make a living that decided to bribe regulators with whores and drugs. This is why I won't boycott the BP station in my neighborhood, which would only punish the minimum wage clerks working there. BP would just sell their gas at the 'other' station anyway.

CEO wages but actually risking their lives to get it done...

They're getting paid aren't they? They aren't volunteers. Granted it's not necessarily their fault that BP decided they would be best served by skimping on safety, but by the same token, they aren't exactly innocent bystanders.

Bryant

Then we could bring in the *real* experts from DU, eh?

and they became government employees. Of coures their saleries would almost certainly be cut at that point.

Bryant

Rather than just employees..

Which means if you try to cut their pay their contracts are no longer valid so they walk.

I used to work on oil rigs in the Gulf in the early to mid 80's and have an idea of how things are done there.

...but they'd have better benefits.. and so would you and I.

It's not fair to call these guys out. let's face it, we're all under the thumb of a bunch of greedy mutherfuckers, no matter what we do, or who we work for.

These dudes rock!

I get to choose the motherfuckers I work for.

You are a God, and the ROV pilots are evil.

Happy now? :eyes:

I think the ROV pilots are top notch, as is most of the engineering staff of BP.

I suppose I am thinking of of the technical people who are coming up with the strategies for dealing with this mess; in my opinion they should have seen it coming and should have done more to prevent it from happening. Somewhat akin to those members of the intelligence and military branches who enabled President Bush and Cheney's invasion of Iraq.

Bryant

I made the decision a long time ago that I simply could not, in good conscience, work for a corporation, especially an evil one. I would be helping them ruin the world. Like it or not, that is what employees of BP have been doing.

Unless people start to look at the bigger picture of how what they do, what they buy, what they consume, what they support is impacting the world... it will never get any better.

blame the people who are least responsible for and have the least power to fix the damage that is done by corporations.

That poor old lady who lost her husband's pension and works at a greeter at Walmart so she can afford her co-pays? Well, she's to blame for the loss of mom and pop shops in her town. Fuck her, right? She's the 'big picture'? If she'd just quit her job and panhandle instead maybe we could bring down Walmart. Give me a fucking break.

That attitude toward working class people is fucked up. SERIOUSLY fucked up. If you actually have a choice of where to work, then you are one of the lucky few. Most people are doing whatever they can to make ends meet, to feed and house their families, and so forth.

The big picture? Until condescending jerks realize that their personal choices do not make them better people, nor do they make a whit of difference in our corporate-controlled economy...it will never get any better. Let's say I boycott BP and so do all my friends, and we all refuse to work there. The US military still gets 80% of its oil from BP (and it is responsible for half the oil use in the US***) so that boycott doesn't fucking matter, does it? The BIG PICTURE.

You may not realize this, and you will vehemently disagree I'm sure, but your argument is much like the idea that women who dress a certain way are responsible if they get raped. Seriously dude.


(***My stats may be flawed but they are in the ballpark, just pulling from memory from recent reading)

2) This is in no way similar to rape of women in any way. That is beyond a "stretch"... it's inflammatory and delusional and insulting.

3) In my opinion, you are either part of the problem or part of the solution. No one raindrop believes it is responsible for the flood. Well... we keep making excuses for ourselves every time a corporation does something fucked up. Who makes up a corporation? Hundreds, thousands of individuals - workers, managers, investors, shareholders.

With your way of thinking, no one person can ever make a difference about anything. Personal choices don't matter because fuck it, I'm just one guy. Bullshit. It does matter.

1) Sorry I assumed you were a man. Such a paternalistic attitude toward 98% of the population is rare in a woman. Kudos for breaking the mold.

2) Feel free to dismiss my analogy if it offends you so, it was hyperbole. I'll address this differently. Your premise is based on an assumption, however accidental it may be, that personal consumer choices got us here. Nothing could be further from the truth. The violent perpetuation of an economic system that rewards greed, waste, concentration of wealth and power is what got us here. Billions upon billions of dollars are spent by the wealthy to perpetuate this mess at the expense of the vast, vast majority of the people on this planet. No rational human would choose the way we live given the consequences of it, unless that human is able to personally profit obscenely off of it. Root causes need to be addressed, not individual raindrops. Even if, for example, the whole world (including the US military, as if) boycotted BP and put them out of business, some other company would take over the rights to the oil and the rigs and whatever else, and the same shit could and probably would happen. The problems are systemic. If 50 people quit BP to make a point, someone else would step in because that's how our system works. Maybe if 75% of BP's employees had a strike and took over headquarters, something would change. Maybe. For that one company, maybe.

3) Nothing seems more hopeless to me than to think that one at a time we have to change our habits in order to change the big picture. That's absurd and impossible. The solution is not choosing to boycott BP or use reusable shopping bags or drive a hybrid. How many billions of people in this world have NO choices? Most people aren't like you (us). Most people don't HAVE choices. You didn't address the pension-less old lady (or a man working in a coal mine because it's the only job within 100 miles and shops at Walmart because it's the only store within 100 miles.. or a single mom working at three politically incorrect chain restaurants to take care of her kids, or people halfway around the world who are even less advantaged but are still losing their livelihoods due to this same system). What are they supposed to do? What is the vast majority of the world supposed to do? Maybe those of us who are lucky enough to have choices could start working on behalf of their interests rather than blaming them for their 'bad choices'.

With your way of thinking, as long as I manage to make my personal life as pure and low-footprint as possible, then I've done my part and fuck everyone else if they're too stupid/lazy/selfish to do things the way I think they should. That's paternalism, that's blaming the victim, that's a success of divide-and-conquer tactics, that's ultimately support of the status quo.

Personal choices don't matter. *Collective action* does.

Lot's of women here use the expression in addressing other women.

It's a California thing.

This elitism, and focusing on the elites to the exclusion of all the other working men and women, is disheartening.

Millions of people are doing their jobs day in and day out. You got an op for them too?

This thread is specifically about what's going on in the Gulf, not about every single person in the country who has a job.

Gosh that makes me feel good. Freedom!!!

Now back to the elite worshiping.

They are just salaried workers. Not management. Not executives. Not major shareholders.

Odd definition of elites. I guess most of DU is populated by "elites" by that definition.

The OP is gushing over thanking these people who are just doing their jobs.

The OP is making them into some elite force, imo.

They are just guys working very long hours under a ton of scrutiny executing plans directed from above. They are also the ones who management will blame when something goes wrong.

So unless you praise everyone, you can't praise anyone?

These people, and I include anyone who is working directly to get this spill capped, deserve credit for what they are doing...under unprecedented and extremely difficult circumstances, with billions of people following what they are doing every minute...I simply do not believe they should be lumped in with the rightful criticism BP is getting...

When my garbage men do something extraordinary I will praise them...

As it is, my garbage men suck, miss our house half the time...so no praise for them from me!!

So you are privy to all that is going on down there?

My feeling is that you are doing a knee-jerk observation, by judging what they are doing and have not done, as some kind of fantabulous thing that is saving us from something.

Well, they haven't done jack shit, yet.

Unless, it's just some sort of knee-jerk observation on your part.

What have they done? What great miracle have they wrought?

Controlling an ROV is child's play. Actually stopping the gusher? When?

Yeah, using an ROV a mile underwater to try and do something that's NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE is just so easy. I mean, you thought about it for five seconds in between witty posts and it seemed easy enough.

Give these people some credit, they are killing themselves to fix this issue.

Killing themselves? Hyperbole, much?

See, that is promoting them into an elite position.

Now, soldiers in Afghanistan? Yeah, they may be killing themselves.
Actually happens everyday there, eh?

These guys are working 14+ hr days, 7 days a week which most normal working people would consider "killing themselves". I know this because I actually know people working on it. I'll make sure and pass on how little you think of their efforts. BeFree said plug the hole guys, don't you have some old towels or something?

Wow, how cool is that?

I would think they'd be working 24 hours a day, in shifts.

Or when it get dark down there, they have to quit?

And scores of other BP drilling engineers and everyone else are working nonstop until this is finished. I don't know the guys offshore, but my cousin is a BP drilling engineer on the Investigation Team and I get info from him. I'm also in the industry and know a how a lot of this goes down (geologist). He's been told that he'll be working 7 days a week for the next three months or more.
We've been involved with BP on various projects and don't think much of their management but that's another story. I certainly don't know all the ins and outs but I can tell you nobody is more bummed than the BP people, and not just because they're loosing money. Nobody wants to drill a bad well, cause and accident or screw anything up, particularly the environment.

You have a built in bias. I hear ya.

It's so much easier to be completely opinionated when you are totally without a clue as to the facts.

You claiming I am clueless?
Yet you can't tell me one fucking thing that I don't already know?

Who the fuck do you think you are, bub? An expert? Cuz you know somebody in the oil bizz?

If you'd read my post you would have realized that. And since I gave you specific information and you responded with, "Oh, since you have a connection then you must be biased" you obviously seem to prefer the opinion of people who don't know anything.

Maybe I just misunderstood your "you're biased" comment to me.

The oil is still gushing. When, and if they stop it, then I'll be the happiest mofo on DU.

you'll just find something else to complain about.

Sid

To be saying I will do something other than what I say I will do?

Really, Sid, who the fuck you think you are to place yourself in my shoes?

we really have not clue as to what BP is really is trying or not trying...they may be working hard, they might not be...they are, however, just pawns in this.

If it doesn't happen that way where you work, then you're probably in business for yourself.

eom

I hope this works. And I agree - the lowly employees are working their asses off