US To PROBE American DEATH In Israeli RAID

You seem all excited.

to deliver criticism or even negative consequences to Israel. I would say four shots to the head and one to the chest at close range in a US citizen would justify at least a critical inquiry... :shrug:

"...a crime has been committed" :sarcasm:

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I would love to hear the WH state that the U.S. is investigating an American death during Israeli piracy.

says the pirates boarded the ships, took everyone prisoner and robbed them of all their possessions - well over a million dollars worth of video equipment, cameras, computers, cell phones, clothing, etc.

They shot at people before boarding, shot more once the did board, kidnapped everyone left alive and stole everything onboard. Sounds like piracy to me...

The interview with Ann is a little passed the midway point of the audio recording.

Democracy Now Interview audio:

<http://c3.libsyn.com/media/18778/dn2010-0603-1.mp3?nvb=20100603213505&nva=20100604214505&sid=605eb477dc94cb15632362aa6476679b&t=00f3649ec9e89fdedd76d>

did. Ann's a friend of mine, too, that's why I was watching on the internet when it happened and posted the link here that night and why I've been pretty freaked out ever since. She was on DN today by phone, and I can't wait to hear her whole story. I LOVE that lady!!

My question is IF the Israeli Government wanted to exercise their ' right ' to inspect the ship's cargo, why didn't they board the ship in broad daylight instead of attempting a dangerous commando night raid?

Also, if you review the helicopter ' infra-red ' video footage, it clearly shows the ship deck occupied with the flotilla personnel BEFORE the storming commandos began repelling down from the helicopters. WHY would highly trained commandos descend INTO a waiting crowd of protesters if they suspected these protesters had guns and knives like THEY claimed?

you are deluded. What the fuck do you think a country with nuclear arms cares about "Well over a million dollars worth of video equipment, cameras, computers, cell phones, clothing, etc."?

I do not dispute the equipment was taken but it was because they wanted to cut communications and control what information and pictures got out, certainly not for the value of the property.

This was not about money or resources but about stopping the ship from going to it's destination. Unless you want to make the case that all blockades are piracy then find another label to fix on your outrage. Piracy misses the issue entirely and is meant to associate with a crime rather than to accurately describe the situation.

You are free to see the act as a crime, maybe even a war crime, but pretending piracy was the motivation is silly.

to some sources. None of the kidnapped peace activists received any of their belongings back.

Pirates is what they are at this point and aside from the U.S. government, most of the world don't see them as any different from any other pirates.

:shrug:

Gee, why oh why would they do that, when they're only interested in getting the truth out?

:eyes:

No matter how badly the Neocons and many in our administration wish to.

Israel, you just may have pushed too damned far and even you may find that American unqualified acceptance of your actions whenever you scream "security concerns" may just have limits. Frankly,if anything good can come from this, the unquestioning acceptance of anything Israel chooses to do, just might come to an end (along with the tendency of many to conflate criticism of Israel of any kind with antisemitism).

And I bet they find it too.

He's free to follow the dictates of his conscience but not from the consequences that come from those actions.

While carrying humanitarian cargo.

http://opiniojuris.org/2010/06/02/why-is-israels-blockade-of-gaza-legal/

that makes much sense Israel is at war. There is no peace in a situation where the opposition denounces your right to existence.

There is also significant legal disagreement with the view of your article. It is an argument of a point of view not a fact, links do not create fact.

I am sure the Israelis appreciate your assessment of the situation. However, your smear of this young man who was shot four times in the head because he was on a humanitarian mission is an abomination.

I wouldn't even call him a man. 19 years old is still a kid to me. The Israeli's murdered an American kid as far as i'm concerned.

does not mean that there are no risks of repercussions. I supported the IRA and opposed Apartheid. I oppose poaching of elephants and whales to the point that I honestly believe violence is an appropriate response.

Let's say that I decided that I for an example wanted to help get supplies into an area in South Africa in a convoy to bring in supplies to that area in violation of a blockade or a road block, was stopped, but was so determined to get those supplies through that I refused to turn around and insisted on getting through and was stopped then I'd certainly expect to be arrested and plausibly imprisoned and if I resisted incarceration then I'd have to accept the extreme possibility that I would be shot.

If I was in the Congo and decided that I was going to hunt poachers, as right as I think that would be, I also understand that people would be gunning for me. If I was on the sea in an effort to prevent the slaughter of whales, I understand the whalers may sink my ship. If I was running supplies or weapons to the IRA, I have no delusion that there might be a price to pay. When the French ran supplies and weapons into the country to help us overthrow Britain, there were consequences to being caught for them.

Sorry, I don't expect agreement or to win any hearts and minds, but it is foolish to pretend that even the most well intentioned efforts for what one perceives as the very best reasons does not give you a shield from the consequences of those actions.

He ran the blockade and probably resisted interdiction of his craft perhaps even violently and he is now a martyr. Maybe that was even his intent knowing that the value of an American life would be more apparent than his Turk companions, I don't know.

A smear is a lie to besmirch a person's character and that was not my intent nor was it what I did. My assessment of the events may be seen as callous and/or heavy handed but it was not an attack on the young man's character or even his motivations. I call four bullets to the head fucked up. I call blockade breaking an act of war. I know acts of war have repercussions regardless of what side of "right" you see your self on.

I will also say he was on a political mission rather than a humanitarian one. Even if the group was 2000% sure the relief would get to those who need it, they would not take a different path and allow themselves to be redirected. They were their to end the action.
The intent was to break the blockade far above getting needy people supplies. The mission was ALL about ending the blockade and running those things by definition MUST draw a response that stops the run or there is no blockade.

However, the object was and is to end the illegal siege. And I think these people are going to succeed because the world has now seen the brutality behind it.

justified but it makes no logical sense to pretend the intent was anything other than breaking the blockade and you admit it in your response.

The young man was certainly willingly participating in an action that he would reasonably expect the possibility of imprisonment or even death. I do not assert he was wrong in his convictions or that his heart was in the wrong place but simply that his actions have easily foreseen consequences.

They knew what they were doing. It was done with great purpose. People that attempt to stop whaling know they may be killed too. I believe they are right in their conviction but that does not remove the real possibility of life ending ramifications for them nor does it ensure the whalers will be punished or stopped.

If you are justifying Israel's actions then maybe you are also suggesting that all those who disagree with Israel have the right to do what they think is justified to stop Israel. Just as you suggest we should accept that this young man knew what he was getting into maybe Israel should accept the consequence of it's actions.

One bullet in the chest and four in the head would result in the District Attorney conducting a investigation anywhere.

DemocracyNow will have it. CNN, NBC, FOX? Not so much...

Rachel Corey, etc.

had the Internet & video been around at that time?

many more would have heard about it, and would have struck politically when the iron was hot.

He would kick ass, I love his book on Bush.

<>


For several days, Israel has been able to contain some of the fallout from the flotilla massacre by withholding information about the dead and injured. The object of this exercise has clearly been to slow the flow of information in the hope that by the time the most damning facts become known, the international media’s attention will have turned elsewhere.

But the dead now have names and faces and one turns out to be a nineteen-year-old American: Furkan Dogan.


Dogan is alleged to have been shot with five bullets, four in the head.


Does the Obama administration intend to investigate the circumstances in which one of its citizens was killed? Protecting the lives of Americans is after all the most fundamental responsibility of our government.


Dogan’s death was presumably instant, but according to Al Jazeera’s Jamal Elshayyal there were others on board the Mavi Marmara who died because Israeli soldiers refused to treat their injuries.

<http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2010/06/2010639114160373.html>


“After the shooting and the first deaths, people put up white flags and signs in English and Hebrew. An Isreali asked the soldiers to take away the injured, but they did not and the injured died on the ship.”


Crimes have been committed and since the suspects all acted under the direction of the Israeli government and its defense forces and took place on international waters outside Israel’s area of legal jurisdiction, “a prompt, impartial, credible and transparent investigation conforming to international standards” — a demand made by the UN Security Council with the support of the Obama administration — cannot be conducted by the Israeli government or a commission appointed by them. An investigation conforming to international standards must also be an international inquiry.


http://warincontext.org/

From what I read he was born in the USA to Turkish parents and left for Turkey at age two. He's a Turkish citizen.

your getting in the way of the "he's one of them and deserved to die" arguement...

sad

he's a human being, you know, like the Israelis are humans, like the Turkish, like the Americans....

And since he's lived in Turkey from the age of two his life didn't count as much as, oh let's say, an American life?

Where could you possibly going with that line of thought? Why does it matter? He was a 19 year old young man.

Given that he was born on US soil, he was automatically granted US citizenship as a matter of course.

:crazy:

doesn't have the same fate.

Why can't the Israelis simply inspect the goods being delivered and then let the boat dock? I can't imagine that these Humanitarians would ever conceal weaponry. Of course the Israelis could plant something.

I just don't understand this level of violence nor the amount of human suffering they are inflicting upon other people knowing how so many suffered similar fates at the hands of the Nazis.

I just don't understand...unless, our world has become so hateful as to want to destroy itself.

Israel could just as easily claim Turkish warships violated Israeli waters and thus proceed to attack the warships. Turkish ships can only go in so far until they leave international waters and enter the waters controlled by another sovereign country.

Others are saying its going to continue to try and run the blockade. It may have lost comms as well.

It is about supplying Gaza with the materials the people need to have a self-sustaining economy. Building supplies. Glass jars for preserving food. Seeds for planting. Nets for fishing. School supplies. It changes; it's arbitrary - and Israel refuses to either list or explain what it chooses to ban.

article about this (with a link to a partial list compiled by the Israeli human rights group, Gisha):
http://ceedee.co.uk/details-of-goods-banned-in-gaza-blockade-reve

The ban is the real issue. Suggesting that the aid ships are really trying to smuggle weapons is a red herring to distract the world from the methodology of the 'blockade'. Are there weapons smuggled into Gaza? Of course - but they have better routes than using well-publicized aid convoys. The point of the blockade is not protection; it is a calculated plan of victory by attrition.

vitamin C is allowed in? Doesn't a lack of this lead to scurvy? I do see fruit is allowed in...but no fruit juice. Does the fresh fruit rot before it's allowed in?

You're right about the red herring...to starve people is truly evil.

And care very little about them, while we are talking about it. Some how Americans have been persuaded that close to 5000 dead American soldiers is more of a disaster that 1 million dead Iraqis. This nation is truly fucked.

to see this state sponsored killing like this.

Just saying.

Cynthia McKinney rips a CBS anchor a new one in the video in this one. Also lots of good links to many sources with various reports of the massacre.

http://www.examiner.com/x-38220-Orlando-Independent-Examiner~y2010m6d4-American19-among-dead-on-ship-bound-for-Gaza-as-details-of-incident-begin-to-emerge

of this attack were Islamic religious extremists. I believe it was this show...

http://www.onpointradio.org/2010/06/gaza-israel-and-flotilla-fallout

I think the guest was Diana Buttu and the NPR host trying to paint the aid flotilla people as Islamic extremists was Tom Ashbrook. I tuned in mid-show and so didn't catch who-all was on. I just looked it up on line. He did it right at the end of the show, probably to cut off any reply. He started a series of leading questions, and when she replied, describing the backgrounds of some flotilla victims (one from a politically conservative Islamic region of Turkey, for instance), he then INTERPRETED what she said as a GENERAL characterization of the people on the aid boats as political/religious Islamic extremists. She was quick on her feet and corrected him. But I was simply appalled--as I often am by Tom Ashbrook and NPR--at the blatant pro-war, pro-corporate and, in this case, pro-Israel agenda.

peaceful activism and how it ended up.

Too many Muslims are painted with the same broad terrorist brush and it's grotesquely unfair. Dogan exemplifies the type of young man who chose to demonstrate the best principles of his faith in a humanitarian mission.

The American public public needs to hear more of these kinds of stories.

RIP Furkan Dogan.

.... the paint balls morphed into 9mm bulletts and entered the cranium... thus causing the youth to fall down.

When he fell down.. he accidentally hit his head on the deck.. repeatedly.. thus causing his death.

It was the fall that killed him... not the IDF.. nothing to see here folks... move along... :eyes: