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Howard Dean in Toronto: "No doubt that you're better off getting sick in Canada."

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-04-10 11:09 PM
Original message
Howard Dean in Toronto: "No doubt that you're better off getting sick in Canada."
Interesting and frank interview with Howard Dean from the Globe and Mail. There will be a debate June 7 there of physicians from the US and Canada. Here is the link to Monday's video.

Here is the interview that has already been posted at the Globe and Mail.

Where would you rather get sick? U.S. or Canada

I very much appreciate his comments.

Bottom line, which system is better for the patient?

Dean: I've spent a lot of time in both countries and there is no doubt that you're better off getting sick in Canada.

But don't you have the best health care in the world? We hear that mantra constantly.

Dean: We have the best health care in the world for people who can afford it. But Canada has very, very good health care for everybody.


After what hubby and I have been through with his health problems for months...with good insurance...I find it is "hurry and wait" then wait some more. So I agree.

Here is more from the interview.

On Monday, a group of prominent American and Canadian physicians will debate, in Toronto, the question: “Be it resolved that I would rather get sick in the U.S. than in Canada.” One of the panelists is Howard Dean, the former governor of Vermont, chairman of the Democratic Party and a one-time presidential candidate. He is also author of the new book Howard Dean's Prescription for Real Health Care. During the health-care reform debate, Dr. Dean was one of the most outspoken proponents of the “public option” – offering state-financed insurance similar to what exists in Canada. He spoke to The Globe and Mail about the views he will be putting forward in the debate.

..."But one of the principal criticisms of a public system, a single-payer system like Canada's, is that it robs consumers of choice.

Dean: Well, the U.S. system is not the same as Canada's. What I was proposing is a choice: a socialist system, a single-payer system or a private enterprise system.


More from the interview:

What are Americans afraid of – why are they reluctant to expand those models?

Dean:I think they have been told a number of things that were not so, a number of very alarming things, and the Democrats were slow on the uptake in counteracting those lies.


Indeed, Dr. Dean. The Democrats have been slow in calling out those who have spun this.

And one more quote:

Health-care reform dominated the headlines for a long time. Was it successful?

Dean: We didn't pass reform. All we did pass was putting more money into what we already have. It's successful in a sense that 1) we got a major bill passed, which is something for a new administration; 2) we created a system that's going to force reform because of the financial realities; 3) a great many more people are going to have coverage. But this system is still not nearly as effective and efficient as the Canadian system.


Blunt and honest interview. More of that please.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-04-10 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. Dean is contradicting himself here
Dean: We didn't pass reform. All we did pass was putting more money into what we already have. It's successful in a sense that 1) we got a major bill passed, which is something for a new administration; 2) we created a system that's going to force reform because of the financial realities; 3) a great many more people are going to have coverage. But this system is still not nearly as effective and efficient as the Canadian system.



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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-04-10 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. That's enough.
Updating my list. No more attempts at discussion.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-04-10 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Not entirely.
He is correct that we didn't pass reform, all the bill does is dig the the insurance companies in deeper and coverage does not equal access to care.

I would take issue with his assertion that this will force reform. The only way the Insurance Company Profit and Campaign Donation Protection Act will force reform will be because premiums will continue to rise while policies cover less and the ranks of the uninsured and underinsured continue to grow. Pretty much the system we have now, but by protecting the insurance companies for a while longer, real reform has been pushed back years.






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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-04-10 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. "I would take issue with his assertion that this will force reform. "
Well, that is precisely the contradiction to his previous assertion.



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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. "will force reform"... as in future tense.
His point was we passed something that will (eventually) force reform but we did not pass reform.

As I recall, many who were in favor of the bill passing claimed it would be an important 1st step which could be 'fixed' later.

That was, also, Dr Dean's stance when he called for passage of the bill. It was inadequate but could provide a foundation to build on.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #17
25. once the boomers are dead and gone, things will finally change
The government has spent all the extra money we boomers have been paying since the early 80s, so medicare will be seriously underfunded before we are all gone.

Once we exit, things will start to change for the better.. Our parents had the good fortune to get old, when there were "bazillions" of us to pay their way, and to give them increases all the time, but we will not be so fortunate.. Perhaps enough of us will perish before we are collecting SS & medicare, so the money will last a bit longer..
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-04-10 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Coverage does not equal care..
We have beaten this particular horse until it has turned into a red mud puddle..

There are plenty of people right now who have coverage but cannot afford care, the current bill will not substantially change that fact.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-04-10 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I didn't say it did. I pointed out a contradiction. n/t
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I agree with Dean..
We didn't pass "reform", we passed "health insurance company profit protection".

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I agree with Dean too:
"we got a major bill passed....we created a system that's going to force reform "

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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. What's going to force reform is the failure to get the job done this time around
which will lead either to honest and responsible reform or a wholesale collapse of the system.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Sounds like a plan: wait for failure. n/t
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. It's inevitable when a policy doesn't address the root causes of the problem
or in this case, really even attempt to address them.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. Calif. begins steps to enact health care reforms

Calif. begins steps to enact health care reforms

The debate over national health care reform has moved to the California Legislature, which this week will begin taking the initial steps to implement the complex series of overhauls prescribed by the federal government.

More than 20 bills have been introduced and as many as a dozen might be voted on this week as lawmakers face a deadline to pass bills out of their house of origin.

Because of California's sheer size, its implementation of the new law could serve as a model for other states. The state has 8.2 million uninsured residents, nearly equivalent to the population of New Jersey. The number has ballooned in recent years as Californians lost jobs and health insurance due to the recession.

The bills seek to enact reforms signed into law by President Barack Obama in March. Among other changes, they would prohibit health insurers from denying coverage because of preexisting conditions and create an exchange through which individuals could buy insurance.

link


Oh, I think it's going to have a significant and positive impact.



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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Since you're interested in California- there are more than a few groups in the state
Edited on Sat Jun-05-10 01:43 AM by depakid
that deal with more than symptoms.

Starting with this one here.

http://www.calnurses.org/
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. That has nothing to do with the actions to implement the health care bill. n/t
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Your digression has nothing to do with the OP
or my point about having the fortitude to deal with the root causes of the problem- or, as might be added- to at least go down fighting.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. We aren't going to get honest and responsible reform..
Too many politicians on both sides of the aisle are too much in thrall to the insurance industry.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. This will be unpopular- but I've come it think that it may have to be done by Republicans
:wow:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
28. If the Republicans try to do it we would fight them.
Seriously, not kidding. We fought so hard against Bush and his "private accounts" and "Ownership" stuff. We beat him down. Now there is no party to fight the process.

Just like in education. We fought against Bush's vouchers. Our side is concentrating on the "charter school" deregulation part, and staying mum on vouchers.

There is no party left to fight against the privatization of either the safety nets or education.

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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. But we didn't get reform..
And we aren't going to get it in the foreseeable future either, the insurance industry will now have even more money and can pump an unlimited amount to the politicians thanks to the SCOTUS.

We are so far beyond fucked that the light from fucked won't reach us for ten billion years.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. "We are so far beyond fucked that the light from fucked won't reach us for ten billion years."
OK.

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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
31. We needed reform that made our system more affordable. We created a mandate
that made it illegal not to pay an insurance co. So now more people are in the Insurance pool, regardless if they could afford it or not. Those children with pre-existing conditions still fight for coverage. Adults still have to wait for several more years if they have a condition that insurance co. consider pre existing. For those living in pain and or suffering with deadly diseases this is not reform. This is just a bill.
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Fox_Hunter Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
15. No shit, Sherlock!
You're also better off getting sick in Lithuania!
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
19. K & R for Dr Dean and Canadian Health Care! eom
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sandbar Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. and big PLUS.
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sandbar Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
23. Dean is right. We really did not pass meaningful "reform". Instead, what
we did was reinforce the existing non sustainable corporate system with taxpayer money.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. Yes, that is what we did...reinforce an existing system.
There was never any intention of real change.
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area51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
27. kick.
Each day, 273 people die due to lack of health care in the U.S.

We need single-payer health care, not a welfare bailout for the serial-killer insurance agencies.


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Admiral Loinpresser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
29. Our new bill was a sellout.
If it's good for the "health insurance" industry, it's bad for America.

The "health insurance" stocks went up after passage.

Ergo it was good for the "HI" industry.

Ergo it was bad for America.

N.B. The original premise is very slightly overbroad, but the conclusion can be inductively demonstrated to be valid.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-05-10 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
30. Dr. Dean is right about us not passing reform, but a bill. No wonder
people would rather get sick in a foreign country like Canada, rather than the United States that has the best health care money can buy....
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-10 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
32. It's better to be Canadian or military if you get sick. Too bad Dems ditched single payer & the PO.
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nxylas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-10 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
33. Why does Howard Dean hate America?
:sarcasm:

(though I've no doubt that there will be a brazillion Freepers saying the same thing in earnest on the messageboards).
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Upfront Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-10 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
34. Dean is Right.
As usual, Dr. Dean nailed it. Thanks mad another good job of informing the uninformed.
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TheWebHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-10 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
35. canada has rather obvious advantages
much more natural resources per capita to fund entitlement programs and a budget that relies much less on defense spending, taking advantage of their neighbor to the south's massive defense budget to provide protection.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-10 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
36. Today he is in DC at the America's Future Now conference.
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