David Obey swears at Kucinich

http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/0507/Obey_to_Kucinich_.html

Rep. Dave Obey (D-Wis.) is at it again. He’s already been captured on “YouTube” denouncing “idiot liberals” over the war. Tuesday he went a step further. He offended some fellow Democrats with delicate ears when he used extremely strong language to attack anti-war Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, during a House Democratic caucus meeting, according to sources who were in the room... “He cursed at him,” said Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Calif.). “I think Mr. Obey was unfairly harsh and disrespectful.

What exactly was said is still in question. One source wasn’t sure and others wouldn’t repeat the language. But everyone agrees that Obey said something that some folks found offensive. The Obey-Kucinich exchange came during a caucus meeting to discuss the Iraq supplemental spending bill. Kucinich asked Obey about language dealing with privatization of Iraqi oil. Obey’s reply included some magic words, which prompted Rep. Diane E. Watson (D-Calif). to declare that she was not attending the meeting to hear such vulgarity.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) attempted to make peace, but some still were not satisfied. Finally, an astute observer of Congressional behavior declared that if you haven’t had a certain part of your anatomy ripped by Dave Obey, you were not a member of Congress. Some reporters and House staff members would argue that they should have been included in that group.

Asked later whether Obey had answered his question, Kucinich smiled and said, “I’ll respond at a later date.”

He's known for being a prick, but his efforts to try to end the Iraq war like he helped do during the Vietnam war are to be commended. I'm surprised he didn't smack that person he is purported to have insulted.

Obey understands the reality of the situation and how Congress works unlike some certain characters that would rather play political theater antics over actually getting something accomplished.

I adore Kucinich as well....I would never flame either of them....O8)

I really have to wonder who the 'centrist Dems' hate more ... the GOP or liberals. Even the 'Dem' I've been assured repeatedly over the years is a 'liberal' is eager to cuddle with the fascist right. It's the best government money can buy, I guess.

Notice how Politico.com savors the story? Cheney can say "go fuck yourself" but such things only offend the "delicate ears" of Dems.
:eyes: :puke:

planting GOP positions and yellow rhetoric in a "below the radar" style to attract less informed Democrats and independents . Nothing less than a tool.

feed off of each other. They link to each other constantly. I had high hopes for Jim Vanderhei, but no more. I haven't been to Drudge's site, but I'm sure this is headline news over there, under the "Dems in Disarray" meme.

will more likely end this war long before Kucinich does. He doesn't suffer fools gladly - that's why he's so good at what he does.

...to Obey about his supplemental in a disrespectful or insulting way?

It sounds to me like Obey was asked a question he didn't have a very good answer for. That's how the Obey/Richards exchange looked a few weeks ago.

Belligerence is usually the refuge of someone unable to produce a compelling or believable answer/response to a question or counter argument they're not prepared for.

I for one would like to see the details of the Kucinich/Obey exchange if anyone comes across a link that has them, please share.

in congress than Kucinich could ever dream of accomplishing.

Yes, I believe Kucinich is a fool. A well-intentioned one, but a fool nonetheless.

...what is there in Kucinich's record/history you would point to in support of such a claim?

and I find that foolish.

on such things. But since you'd rather snark, I thought I'd take the time to do it for you:


"The energy of the stars becomes us. We become the energy of the stars. Stardust and spirit unite and we begin: one with the universe, whole and holy. From one source, endless creative energy, bursting forth, kinetic, elemental; we, the earth, air, water and fire-source of nearly fifteen billion years of cosmic spiraling." -- Kucinich, in the "Journal of Concious Evolution"


He has close ties to the Maharishi Institute. He's close friends with Shirley MacLaine. He's a new-age nutter.

true.

good for you. To me, it's new-age claptrap.

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but Hitler used the word "repugnant" once. Hrmm?!

:wtf:

would've found Kucinich's view on science laughable.

It just points out the beauty that the elements that make us are the same timeless elements of the universe. Not nutty just a poetic observation.

I for one don't have the luxury of choosing candidates based on their views of reality and the origins of life and the universe. Where is this science driven candidate that you speak of? You consider him nutty with his claptrap. Do you examine other candidates' creation theories with the same scrutiny or do you stop when they match your own?

It's all equally "claptrap" but unfortunately it's all a part of campaigning that we choose to filter out to get what they are actually saying about the state of the country, the world, and what they intend to do to fix things and visualize something better.

because I think that's a beautiful quotation and I agree with it. But then I'm also a big Kucinich fan and voted for him in the 2004 primiary.

chemtrails and mind-control satellites.

I'm tired of doing your work.

as well as I can.

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Like he doesn't suffer ASSHOLES gladly, and god knows there are plenty of them in Congress. I'd rather a politician talk bluntly that one who wouldn't say shit if he had a mouthful.

...challenged, especially on the language regarding the privatization (theft) of Iraqi oil in his supplemental.

If that's the case, maybe he should look in the mirror.

It was clear the person acting like a buffoon hounding Obey didn't even know that he was sponsor of the supplemental to put in timelines and benchmarks and had other parts of the legislation to begin pulling US troops out by the fall of 2007.

She was exactly what Obey referred others as.

As for the other mealy-mouthed quack in the video, he was even more clueless.

I stand with Obey and am certain that he knows that political theater and unpassable legislation is a waste of time...and ultimately lives and money. I'd put the people who have no real tangible solutions in the children's crying room and have the adults do the real work that needs to be done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS4wHMCc57k

I don't see much of a case to be made for Obey being, as you say, "hounded."

-------------------------------------------------------------------

From Democrats.com
http://www.democrats.com/node/12246

Obey's most important point is that the Supplemental includes language that will end the war.

"The language we have in the resolution ends the authority for the war," he added. "It makes it illegal to proceed with the war. You don't have to de-fund something if the war doesn't exist."

Presumably, Obey is referring to language that states that the Iraqi government must meet Bush's benchmarks for reform in order for our troops to remain in the region. The legislation sets a deadline for complete withdrawal from Iraq by Sept. 8, 2008, but also states that troops would be withdrawn earlier if Iraqi government fails to satisfy Bush's benchmarks.

The question we have for Rep. Obey is simple: how can that strategy possibly work when Bush will veto the Supplemental or (illegally) nullify that part of it with a signing statement?

If Rep. Obey agrees that his strategy cannot work for that reason, doesn't that leave us with only one strategy, the one embraced by the Progressive Caucus: to restrict the Supplemental to a fully funded withdrawal?

If we were having a calm and respectful conversation, Rep. Obey would find a nicer way to say this:

"We don't have the votes to pass ," he yelled. "We couldn't even get the votes to pass a non-binding resolution one week ago. How the hell do you think we're going to get the votes to cut off the war?"

And we would reply: please tell us which Democrats we need to persuade to vote for a fully funded withdrawal. Because a solid majority of Americans want to bring our troops home now, and those Democrats work for their constituents.

Rep. Obey, we are not "idiot liberals." We are the American people, and we want to help you end the war as quickly as possible - if you will only talk to us and work with us as we lobby your colleagues for a fully funded withdrawal.

Rep. Obey, will you join us in this dialogue?

If Obey does, he's the one with his head up his ass. The Iraqis just aren't going to go along with it.

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/51572/?page=5

Production sharing agreements are generally applied in circumstances where there is a strong possibility that oil exploration will be extremely costly or even fail, and/or where extraction is likely to prove prohibitively expensive.

To offset huge and risky investments, the contracting company is guaranteed a proportion of the profits, if and when oil is extracted and sold. In the most common of these agreements, the proportion remains very high until all development costs are amortized, allowing the investing company to recoup its investment expenditures (if oil is found), and then to be rewarded with a larger-than-normal profit margin for the remainder of the contract which, in the Iraqi case, could extend for up to 25 years.

This is perhaps a reasonably fair, or at least necessary, bargain for a country which cannot generate sufficient investment capital on its own, where exploration is difficult (perhaps underwater or deep underground), where the actual reserves may prove small, and/or where ongoing costs of extraction are very high.

None of these conditions apply in Iraq: huge reservoirs of easily accessible oil are already proven to exist, with more equally accessible fields likely to be discovered with little expense. This is why none of Iraq's neighbors utilize PSAs. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iran, and the United Arab Emirates all pay the multinationals a fixed rate to explore and develop their fields; and all of the profits become state revenues.

<snip>

It seems clear that what the oil law has the power to do is substantially escalate the already unmanageable conflict in Iraq. Active opposition by the Parliament alone, or by the unions alone, or by the Sunni insurgency alone, or by the Sadrists alone might be sufficient to defeat or disable the law. The possibility that such disparate groups might find unity around this issue, mobilizing both the government bureaucracy and overwhelming public opinion to their cause, holds a much greater threat: the possibility of creating a unified force that might push beyond the oil law to a more general opposition to the American occupation.

<snip>

Like Drudge, Hanity, etc. Lord knows we need more of that on this forum.

Oh, and shove your Obey picture.

Welcome to DU!

:)

:)

I love the movie. :)

that was a surprisingly fun movie. :)

A great movie indeed, Mr. Stubbs.

He is not "the man"

If you can't quote it, it is immaterial. “(I)diot liberals” over the war? Who cares when we have Jesus on our side? Right?

"Blessed are the peacemakers."

-Jesus
The Beatitudes - Book or Matthew - THE Bible

Read it and weep, Davie boy.

Hey, pick on the wrong guy. Lies make some people feel good, I guess.

of ending the war. People like to applaud the showboaters, but Obey has had nose to the grindstone ever since voting against the Iraq war back in the day.

This is a perfect example of good people disagreeing.

...between maligning someone and calling them on their uncalled for, belligerent, speech, don't you?

Please feel free to share the DU links where Obey is unjustly maligned -- I must've missed those.

... you can use the search option DU provides. Much was hashed over on these boards about Obey's snippy comments to the antiwar advocates he met up with that is referenced in the OP.

Belligerent speech? Maybe. Uncalled for? Maybe.

I try to put myself in other's shoes when making those calls, and IMO Obey had cause for his annoyance although perhaps could have handled it better.

In the end, nobody got hurt.

And I'm not about to attack him today based on the former incident. I'm not one to insert myself into snits between people I don't know because I can't possibly know all the details. It's not fair or healthy to carry over bad feelings into new arguments. But you go right on ahead if you feel you must.

...and she's the mother of a young man who's served two tours in Iraq and is now having difficulty getting assistance for suicidal tendencies. She doesn't seem like someone deserving of disrespectful treatment:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WV-elj7Lo70

I agree that Obey doesn't need people maligning him and we shouldn't be.

She apparently had no clue that Obey was the sponsor of the legislation that was going to give money to do exactly what she wanted as support for her son...and then she just kept on making a fool of herself.

I wish her well as well as her son, but she seriously needed to have someone tell her who he was before she went off on her rant.

...for the fact that she doesn't do this professionally. She's just an ordinary citizen trying to make a difference -- trying to help bring an end to this illegal war/occupation. So should we.

Yes, it's forgivable to be mistaken, but she chided him and goaded him for something he was not doing.

In honor of all good mothers everywhere, when we say something that is wrong, even if we were ignorantly mistaken, we should apologize and make amends.

This story is not complete and she is not off the hook until she takes responsibility for her own words by apologizing and correcting the record.

Obey had a bout of "righteous indignation". For some reason in this society, we now consider it preferable to be wrong (as Tina Richards was) than to lose your temper with someone who is wrong (as David Obey did). That is basssssss-ackwards.

By this standard, Jesus was wrong when he overturned the tables on the steps of the temple.

Righteous anger is not wrong.

If someone wants to be productive with ending the war, they should actually go after the people that were trying to stop what Obey and others are trying to do to end the war.

You don't bite the hand that feeds you...

I genuinely sympathize with the woman and I really do understand her pain and frustration. Obey was snippy, but I can understand his frustration when groups like Code Pink picket Democrats because they are impatient and for good reason. He was frustrated with her not understanding the legislative process.

Quite frankly that same pain & frustration & snippy 'tudes get acted out on these boards every single day.

Peace.

and he was discharged honorably - so he didn't have to go back for his third tour. All it took was his mom making noise.

And she is still in DC, trying to get all of our other kids home.

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I guess I got you mixed up with another poster. Please accept my apology.

It's true. I work with someone who was a TV news person who interviewed David Obey on a number of occasions. The man is a progressive's progressive...but with a short temper for those not getting it...or in the way...

He's helped end the Vietnam War in the past and is doing the same now. Some of those that are civics-challenged may disagree with him, but that is not going to stop him from doing the good work he continues to do.

Of course, some misdirected souls will be protesting outside his office tomorrow for daring to speak his mind to some that prefer political theater to line their pockets and soggy vanity presidential campaign coffers over real solutions to end the war.

He'll just bite back.

Tough crowd here at DU.

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If that isn't the definition of "idiot" i don't know what is.

If you're going to go confront a member of congress, and urge them to vote "no" for something, at least make sure the person wasn't one of the author's of the damn thing...

What exactly was said is still in question.

Isn't anything said on the House floor a matter of public record and available by transcript?

Just asking.

the "oil privitization (sic) law"?

I thought control of oil was already pretty privatized in this country.

But then, what does that have to do with this thread? If your point is that Obey isn't a flaming left-wing nutter, nobody has made that claim.

Congress is insisting the Iraqi parliment pass this law as part of the "benchmarks for success" in Iraq.

I think kucinich is one of the few congresspeople, joining Iraqi oil workers, in opposing this idiocy.

more on this idiocy here:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&ItemID=12769

yes, that should be opposed. I suspect it will be.

supplemental bill.
See this daily kos article.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/3/14/11201/9425

My question is, why the hell congress thinks it has any say in how Iraqi oil wealth is governed?

**raising hand and bouncing in my chair**

Because Obey is a "progressive's progressive" and "Kucinich, who had been anti-abortion-rights up until about 5 minutes ago, is only sometimes a real liberal."

Sitting back down and slamming my head on the desk.

I know but when I read those two comments I just wanted to cry. I really could care less what some people think of him personally (new age woo woo) but those other kinds of comments that totally lack understanding of him and the policies he sets are so completely without any kind of merit I just can't seem to let them go. Whatever. I am with you and I understand what you are saying.

I am. So far he is the only one I could actually cast a vote for. I don't know what I am going to do but the other clowns will not be getting my support.

"Kucinich asked Obey about language dealing with privatization of Iraqi oil."

Kudos to Dennis Kucinich for the courage to speak about issues that others would prefer remain hidden.

The privatizing of Iraqi assets and the Profit Sharing Afreements which give the Global Corps 70% of Iraqi Oil are HUGE issues which need to be spotlighted. Naturally, the Global Oil Companies and those on their payroll would rather not talk about this. The Global Oil Corps will be unhappy if language limiting their rape of Iraq is inserted in the Appropriations Bill. They have sent out their orders.

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

thanks.
The link above. http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&ItemID=12769

:hi:

...openly discussed is what it sounds like.

and it includes some hefty profits for BIG OIL. Some folks are afraid to stand up to BIG OIL. Dennis isn't. :)

He's been doing hand-to-hand combat with selfish Republican jackasses for years. I, too, would have a hard time containing my frustration and anger on occasion under those circumstances.

...Sorry, I just had to throw that in here.

:)

BTW welcome to DU, that is if you haven't already put me on ignore.

i actually had an account before but i forgot the name. now i'm trying to rebuild my post cred.

...who you really were/are. First, I need to know your mother's maiden name.

i've read since i got here! lol

trying to shut him up
They may learn that Conservative =Corruption Liar and theif
and Liberal means truth Justice and the American way

We don't know what he said.

We don't even know what the exchange was about.

There isn't enough in the story to even call it hearsay.

Until there is some sort of context, then I say we know nothing.

So he yelled at the beloved Dennis. Dennis is a big boy. I'm sure he can handle it.

isn't he like 5 ft 5 or something? lol

On edit: This story is meant to cause us trouble. Obey has a big mouth but in the larger scheme of things, this is a non story.

This is another one of those smokey items with no there there the enemy specializes in floating....

Pffft.

Oh, and by the way, re: the liberal idiots comment, David Obey IS a Liberal. He's one of the most liberal Congressmen in Wisconsin.

Until there is an actual story regarding what happened, this would seem to be a non-issue.

And rightfully so. Congressmen raising their voices and swearing at each other over this situation is a testament to just how important it really is.

But if a man is passionate about his stance enough to start yelling and swearing, I've more respect for that man that all the feeble talking point machines in Congress today

of other's opinions, I have to agree... He is a dick... I like Kucinich, I like him as a Presidential Candidate....

As he was when he accused the leadership of wanting to continue the war in Iraq when almost all their efforts had been to end that war.

Let's face it. You like DK, in fact, you like him so much, that when he does something that you think is wrong, you don't mind. When others do the same thing, it is a mark against them, but when DK does it, it is okay because you like him.

We all have our prejudices for and against, but just admit where you stand and we will take your opinions about DK in the context that they are in.

But I know one is definitely not running and the other I hope will.


I don't equate morals with Pro-Choice so I guess that is why I am not having a problem with Dennis changing his opinion about it....

It may look wrong to you, but to me he is just finally realizing it is a choice for a woman to make and not for a law or anyone's morals to dictate....

If anyone is looking for a candidate with integrity, try Dennis Kucinich. eom.

Changing from pro-life to pro-choice during an election year?

Politicians change positions to get elected, that is not news. But it is not a mark of integrity.

And the picky thing about integrity is that it applies to all our decisions and actions. We don't get to have integrity in "most" of our life, that isn't integrity.

So, please spare me that DK has integrity and imply that the others don't. On this very big issue, I can't think of one of our candidates who changed their position during the year they ran for president. And any of them that did for political purposes, could not be said to have integrity having done that.

DK is human. Pick the best human for the job. Don't put him on a pedestal, especially without looking at the facts.

Yes, Kucinich has integrity. For one, entering articles against Cheney. Two, he won't be bought by big oil or anyone else. Three, I'm not attacking people for their previous votes but what's so damn hard about doing the right thing now?

with integrity to change positions on such an important issue in an election year.

If you believe abortion is wrong and change your vote to get elected, that is understandable, but it is not the vote of a man with integrity.

This is not arguable.

I was opposed to elective abortion. I've since changed my mind about it and now advocate for choice. Care to characterize me? I grew up Catholic and so did Kucinich. You should applaud the change instead of saying it shows a lack of character.

anything? Many have changed their mind about the IWR... Some have change their mind on Pro-Choice... Only means they have finally come around in my book.....

but it is not consistent with having integrity:

from Mirriam Webster (Integrity):
"1 : firm adherence to a code of especially moral or artistic values : INCORRUPTIBILITY
2 : an unimpaired condition : SOUNDNESS
3 : the quality or state of being complete or undivided :"

Most of our politicians do not have integrity, so this doesn't make DK worse than them, but mmmonk's suggestion that he is the one to look for as having distinctive integrity --well, c'mon. The definition is too tight for him.

Also, integrity means that you have to make a decision for the right reason. If I save your life, but I do it because I know that you are going to give me the $1000 in your wallet for doing so, that is not integrity. Did DK have a revelation of conscience that led him to become pro-choice in an election year?

look at the situation... You choose to see it that way and not the other as I see it... You can define the subject matter as you see it, however it does not mean it is a correct assessment...

Do you equate morals to Pro-Choice? Just curious....:shrug:

And my post stated that it was a dictionary definition.

What you want is for integrity to mean something else so that you can apply that to DK. But it don't work that way unless integrity's definition is flexible, which wouldn't make it that vaunted a moniker.

In other words, if DK can have integrity despite changing a position from pro-life to pro-choice during an election year, then integrity isn't really something that grand to have because it allows you to act against conscience in your own self-interest.

C'mon. You like DK, but you don't like him because he has integrity, you like him because of his consistent positions on most things and overall positions right now. That's not wrong, but don't call it integrity.

Don't place your support of DK as more morally upright than others support of other candidates. All of us are supporting human beings, not saints, yes, that includes you DK supporters. Please stop drinking the kool aid!

I don't think this has anything to do with it... He is changing his stance to what I want... I am happy he is taking that position. I think it is great.. I don't think integrity plays into it... He changes his mind in a non-election year and that would be integrity? I still am not understanding why you apply that word to his actions?

I never questioned the definition of the word, just your application of it to this situation.....

But not always. But changing a moral position for political benefit is not a mark of integrity.

Stop putting him on a pedestal.

Admit you like him for his positions --that's fine! Go with that!

Stop making him out to be some sort of moral hero.

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If you are retracting this, then fine, retract it, but you said if we were looking for integrity to look at DK.

That's was the issue. I only jumped on it because it was suggesting that he had integrity, almost to exclude the others.

It was a non issue... Me thinks you are beating that horse too much...

Got any proof that he could not have changed his mind like I did? And what does this have to do with the issue at hand or is there just some things you can't get past?

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the "liberal idiots" incident? Projection? The problem lies not with Kucinich or his supporters or "liberals". The problem with this government is corruption and lies. If that's inconvenient, too bad.

Tina Richards, the mom, is my friend. She had been in DC lobbying for about 6 weeks and the video crew asked her if they could follow her on that particular day. She said sure and that is how they happened to catch Obey's tirade on tape.

And no, it wasn't secret. There was a cameraman, a sound man and a huge light. Unless Obey was blind, he knew he was being filmed.

The other interesting little detail is that Obey has apologized to Tina - several times. She is not angry about this and neither is he. But the rumors are still flying. LOL

Obey got mad because he was falsely accused. Richards made the false accusation. She was wrong. That she did it on camera and the falsehood was broadcast and the wrong multiplied many times made an apology and correction from her more necessary.

Apparently getting angry in response to a lie is wrong now. I'd like to see some of you walk that walk and not get angry in the face of a falsehood.

Hmmm, care to start applying that to your own use of anger in response to falsehoods? Heck, even in this thread would be a start for the moral exemplars that give me a hard time for criticizing DK, which I try to do based on fairness and facts.

and part of my employer's expectations of me is that I hold my temper. I earn about 25% of what Obey does.

So if I can hold my temper because my boss tells me I have to, then I think the least we can expect from a congressman is that he holds his temper too.

Sorry, no sympathy for Obey here.

Tell you what. When Dennis calls me an idiot, I'll be pissed at him, too.

I guess that would be me... See I have a Son who has served in Iraq, and I am quite certain I don't want him to go back, so I wear that title with pride... You say it with shame...

Hey, I've got an idea--lie about me, now! 1) I put quotation marks around the word "liberal," as if expressing my very own opinion that those who censor messages for content are not real liberals, and 2) you never even asked, notice, what my opinion on the Iraq war is. Oh, by the way, I am against it. Does this post of mine get to survive? Then again, this was just what was done to Obey, wasn't it? I got 2 civil replies right before yours; that is over now. You can join the first reply I got.

duties of his job is to engage the public and not call them names or insult them no matter what... He would of been better walking away instead of what he did... In this day and time, there are cameras everywhere you look, and some places where you are not looking, so we all better be on our best behavior. Obey really should of held his tounge....

As for your stance against the war... Way to go....

If that's Obey's position (i am not certain it does, i hope it does not), then it applies to him as well.

Kucinich voted against that bill along with all Republicans save a few.

Which of the two guys is more likely to round up enough votes to get out of Iraq?

I support Dennis in regard to this, whole heartedly.

and that's the topic I was addressing.

But that topic doesn't flatter Mr. Kucinich, so I guess we are moving on to something that does right?!

:wtf:

gosh, what logic.

I assume this will help me come to see the light and support him, no?!

Who needs the GOP when we can self-destruct among ourselves!!!

lol

he didn't hear me...but i swore none the less...

i have sworn at fellow co-workers..haven't you??

isn't that human nature on occassion ??

wtf is the big deal..people disagree sometimes..and people get frustrated , sometimes...

it happens!!

fly

;)