About the condemnation of Helen Thomas,

I have one question for many people.

What about Pat Buchanan??

It is telling that he is not constantly receiving half of this indignation much less still being on the MSM shows all the time. I know somebody on DU and the board as a whole is always after him.

He is not kindly old Mr.Pat who should be humored. He is worse than Helen Thomas because he keeps repeating the same horrible messages on many issues.

She is suffering the consequences of her remarks. Buchanan is enjoying his.

I heard of him first in 2002, when he commented on the French elections at that time, and defended LePen. That made him lower than scum in my eyes. I have since heard of him in many connections, and he has not redeemed himself!

From her, it was more shocking.

he has not weighed in with criticism against Israel, that's why. Everyone else is fair fame, but not Israel.

Pat Buchanan: In His Own Words
On American Jews and the Pro-Israel Lobby

1999: "After World War II, Jewish influence over foreign policy became almost an obsession with American leaders."
- A Republic, Not an Empire. P. 336.

1999: "I know the power of the Israeli lobby and the other lobbies, but we need a foreign policy that puts our own country first."
- Meet the Press Interview. September 12, 1999.

1991: "Even if his veto of the (loan) guarantees is overridden, he will have won high marks for his courage, and exposed congress for what it has become, a Parliament of Whores incapable of standing up for U.S. national interests, if AIPAC is on the other end of the line."
- Syndicated column, December 18, 1991

1990: In an August 25,1990, column, Buchanan criticized commentators urging military intervention in Iraq, naming Abe Rosenthal, Richard Perle, Charles Krauthamer and Henry Kissinger. On August 29th, he wrote the following:
"’The civilized world must win this fight,’ the editors thunder. But, if it comes to war, it will not be the ‘civilized world’ humping up that bloody road to Baghdad; it will be American kids with names like McAllister, Murphy, Gonzales, and Leroy Brown."
- Washington Times, August 29, 1990

1990: "There are only two groups that are beating the drums for war in The Middle East – the Israeli Defense Ministry and its amen corner in the United States."
- The McLaughlin Group, Aug 26, 1990

More:
http://www.adl.org/special_reports/buchanan_own_words/print.asp


Buchannan gets a free pass because he's a Conservative in the Conservative-owned media speaking for the Conservative GOP.

But the reason his transgressions are swept over is because he speaks to those who want to "take our country back". Over the years, he has said many derogatory things against people of color, women, the LGBT community, various ethnic groups and others he hates with a passion. The media unfortunately treats this ass like an authority figure instead of the hooded Klansman everyone knows he is.

It seems as if Buchanan has been given a free pass to spew his filth and be a racist. The atrocious part is that everyone can see this but will do nothing about it.

and don't usually see the world in black or white. And if deeds and words count, then all Thomas' words should be put on the scales. All of them and a lifetime of work.

Rec

I totally denounce what Helen said...it's not just what she said but how she said it. It appeared she has a deep resentment for not just Israel but Jewish people that goes beyond the politics that is what really is the issue here.

That said, Pitchfork Pat gets a pass cause he's a "member of the tribe"...the beltway drinkie-drinkie establishment. He's always been able to shoot off his racist and anti-semetic piehole and his pals shrug and chuckle that it's "good old Uncle Pat" (even Rachel was caught playing into this meme)...cause he masks his hatred with a smile and laugh.

Helen isn't part of the beltway set...she's burned a lot of bridges with the "established" media, thus why she was ostracized during the boooosh years and no one dared to stand up for her...and in some cases (Dana Milbanks) were more than happy to pile on. I find it so telling that no sooner than her video was exposed, the corporate media went running to Ari Fleischer to "respond"...shows where their agenda is.

Yep, Helen is suffering the consequences, but deservedly so...but I don't see playing the equivelency game here.

Cheers...

Could it be WHO it is he goes after that gives him the pass? Let's face it. Pat Buchanan has been saying vile shit for YEARS. This asshole should be off the TV yet no only is he regularly on the TV but no one bothers to call him out on the volumes of vile shit he says. In fact many people seem to go out of their way to pooh-pooh people who have a visceral reaction to him. And when you consider the totality of both people what Helen Thomas said is a drop in a Olympic-sized pool compared to the amount of shit we have on Pat Buchanan and that's just the shit he says on television. Yet I don't see such a huge backlash every time old "Uncle Pat" shows his nasty face on the TV. So what's the difference? Could it be that the problem isn't that what Helen Thomas said but about whom she said it that has people so riled up?

It certainly looks that way from my perch.

I've seen many people call Buchanan out on his shit...Bill Press did it nightly for years. It's not what I think, this is an observation...from my perch per se...of watching, mostly impassionately, a corporate media that operates in its own "conventional wisdom" and serves itself not the "public interest".

IMO, both Thomas and Buchanan's words show latent (if not deep seated) anti-semetism...and in my book neither get a pass, but it doesn't matter what I think. It's a corporate media that lives by its own drinkie-drinkie party rules...Buchanan is "one of 'em" while Thomas isn't. The reaction to their remarks show their pecking order in the beltway world.

Pitchfork Pat never has gotten a pass on this end...my disgust with that slimeball goes back to the Agnew days. The fact he gets a regular paycheck from one corporate entity or another shows how corrupt that industry is.

again?

I haven't heard any from others in the industry. Which is what we're hearing right now with Ms. Thomas. So as I said, as far as the industry is concerned bigotry toward some is more worthy of condemnation than bigotry toward others. No one in this country has ever lacked work for being bigoted toward black and brown people. Someone else will always hire them.

From who? Where? Certainly not on this board.

I'm talking about the larger culture. I'm talking institutions. One board which represents what? One one millionth of a percent of the world if that? Give me a break and let's discuss the bigger picture here. No one loses money for long slamming black and brown people in this country. That's why Pat Buchanan still has a job despite the multitude of vile racist shit he's said. Pat Buchanan is still treated as an authority, he's brought up on mainstream news shows as though he were neutral even when the discussion is about race which is about as big a joke as one can find anywhere. To my knowledge, Helen Thomas doesn't have the long reputation of saying shit for which she needs to apologize. And she's apologized yet we have people in the mainstream media calling for her firing, she's been dropped by some agency or other and Pat Buchanan? Still frothing at the mouth which he will continue to do until the day comes when he does us all a favor and drops dead. So yes, I'm saying that Buchanan gets a pass.

Meanwhile there's a flotilla headed toward Gaza attempting to break an illegal blockade and Ms. Thomas is the story instead. Coincidence? Perhaps but it smells funny.

I can't speak for the rest of the planet but I've never seen buchanan get a free pass here and neither should Helen Thomas. I've written countless letters and emails to MSNBC about buchanan. I still havne't written one to Hearst because they haven't decided what to do. If they keep her, I'll be writing to them as well. Her apology was crap.

I'm not concerned about YOU as an individual and none of my posts has ever said anything about any individual and their distaste for Pat Buchanan.

Are you under the impression that racism is something that's a problem on an individual level and that it has nothing to do with the larger society at large? Did someone tell you that it's merely an individual failing? That how the powers react to the complaints of some but not others is not a reflection of whom they consider worthy and whom they do not?

What part of institutions and bigger picture do you not understand from my post? Your letters are the equivalent of someone pissing the ocean. And frankly so is the outrage here. It's not doing all that much and frankly there probably aren't too many people writing to MSNBC anyway as Pat Buchanan remains on the air, untroubled by his past and no one seems inclined to call him out on it in too overt a manner. As is evidenced by the fact that Ms. Thomas is retiring, no doubt under pressure, it is clear that only for some people in this country that the outrage over offensive comments made toward that group actually mean one loses one's job. Which pretty much makes my point for me.

A bunch of people in the corner saying, "I don't give Pat Buchanan a pass" doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot when the media puts him on the air time after time, and the same media calls for Ms. Thomas to retire when Pat Buchanan's past is a hell of a lot uglier than Ms. Thomas'.

Why is this so hard for people to understand around here?

Just because Buchanan gets a pass doesn't mean Thomas should and that seems to be what you are arguing.

So for her to be run off for ONE statement is bullshit. Obviously by the speed with which she's been forced out it's painfully clear that you won't have to worry about keeping your job disrespecting black and brown people in this country. And that the Israeli lobby is more important to those in power than the black and brown citizens of this country.

THAT is the problem.

I don't give a fuck about what Helen Thomas said when in the grand scheme Pat Buchanan is a hell of a lot more dangerous than she is.

And to even suggest that Pat Buchanan's continued employment status despite his long racist history is not important here is bullshit.

You care more about one statement of Helen Thomas' than the entirety of Pat Buchanan's long racist rap sheet. So I suppose one could extrapolate which population's respect is more important to you as well. At least be honest in that when you make your argument rather than pooh-poohing the mention of the disparate treatment of the two.

And more frothing. You don't know shit about me and what I care about and frankly, I find you boring and childish.

I'm saying Pat should have shite dumped on him every day much less be accepted on TV. I don't care if Thomas burned every bridge in the universe and not just hers. He doesn't deserve anything less.

What is the issue here is that both made unacceptable statements. If HT has a resentment and a bad tone about Jewish people, then Buchanan has something that is just as bad for many, many groups.

Buchanan has made statements about African Americans and others that are just about as personal as you can get.

You can give Buchanan any kind of pass on this you want. He never gets a pass from me. Ever.

cheers

...nor ever will. I was just making an observation...one condeming the corporate media culture he's a product of. It's an industry that has corrupted itself with its own self importance that allows for liars and hate mongers spread their bile and lies unabated and its viewed as "part of the dialogue". It's a lazy world where babbling with one another constitutes "news" rather than serious investigative reporting and questioning. It's a club where those who belong are given exposure and slack...we get regular "commentators" who are wrong or lie and it's all good cause the powers that control what you see and hear decide it's so.

I'm saddened by hearing Helen's words as I've long admired her independence and speaking truth to power...no matter how embarassing it can be. I don't think she should be banished or fired. As much as I denounce not just her statement but almost everything that flows out of Buchanan's piehole, they do have the right to say it...and we have the right to call them out.

Again...it's not my call her, it's Phil Griffin and the powers that be at GE/MSNBC that keep dragging Pitchfork Pat out no matter how inflamatory he gets. It's an observation of how far our "news" has gone to titilation and instigation as its modus operandi.

whether you let people know about Buchanan all the time. The reason he is still on is because too many people accept him as just the same ol', same ol'.

Instead of saying what the hell is he saying and why is he still on my teevee, too many people tune him out and go ho-hum. Meanwhile he gets his bully pulpit to spew as he pleases.

He is a clear and present danger and he always has been. The Teashitters didn't spring up out of nothing. Given the way he is treated, he is a more dangerous person than Helen Thomas will ever be.

She surprised and horrified people. He should too.

"With 80,000 dead of AIDS, our promiscuous homosexuals appear literally hell-bent on Satanism and suicide."

"Homosexuality is not a civil right. Its rise almost always is accompanied, as in the Weimar Republic, with a decay of society and a collapse of its basic cinder block, the family."


"Rail as they will about 'discrimination,' women are simply not endowed by nature with the same measures of single-minded ambition and the will to succeed in the fiercely competitive world of Western capitalism."

"There were no politics to polarize us then, to magnify every slight. The 'negroes' of Washington had their public schools, restaurants, bars, movie houses, playgrounds and churches; and we had ours."


So to me, it was both what he said and how he said it.

"Any comments on Israel?"

HT "Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine.
Remember, these people are occupied and it's their land. It's not Germany, not Poland."

"so where should they go?"

HT "Home. Poland. Germany. America. And everywhere else.
=================================================================
Many Americans, possibly Helen Thomas included, believe that the Palestinians got the short end of the stick when the US and UK decided that a "Jewish State" should be formed on land that belonged to others. Most of the people that moved to that land came from Europe. She said nothing about Jewish people.

It is interesting how her comments have resulted in the discussion changing from Israel commandeering ships and killing aid workers to the off-hand comments of this 89 year old reporter.

Was she set-up?

I happen to like HT very much because she asks important people questions that need asked but others in the media are afraid to ask.

He wasn't set up--she screwed up. It's tragic--after her long career and all the great reporting she's done, this is the remark she'll be remembered for. Time to say goodnight, Helen.

If any person makes even ONE mistake all the good things in their lives mean nothing. How savage have we become? There is not an adult alive who has never offended another person, either knowingly or unknowingly. Helen Thomas has had a very long and distinguished career. She is one of the few who actually ask a president tough questions. The rest of the White House Press Corp is just a 'club' of journalistic wannabes. They aren't journalists. They just regurgitate what they are told, without thought and without question.

I believe Helen Thomas should be given at least 'one pass'. But I suppose most seem eager to crucify people if they make just one mistake. Sad...

After all this time, to reveal oneself as anti-Israel to the point of being eliminationist is more than just a minor "gaffe.". She can't say she didn't know how closely the existance of Israel is tied to modern Jewish identity. She obviously knows and doesn't care. She should retire.

I will get worked up about him too. Not just Helen,

Buchanan knows very well what he is saying every time he opens his mouth.

You have to have a certain nature about a remark to be called out harshly????

I don't have such finely honed distinctions about any type of bigotry.

Nobody with any sense has ever taken him seriously. Helen Thomas is a feminst/progressive icon--a hero to a generation of women. The difference is obvious, no? Buchanan discredits himself every time he opens his mouth--he does it so much no one even pays attention anymore. He's a running joke--a curiosity they put on TV to entertain the rubes. HT is an actual journalist with real credibility among progressives especially. And in that case you only get to discredit yourself once.

they do Ms. Thomas. He's put on to discuss things on mainstream media as though his past were unimportant. He's never apologized to any damn body for any of the shit he says. Yet there he is with no asterisk, no mention of any of the racist shit he says, and the mainstream media doesn't bat an eye. But this has them all riled up?

Always being a horse's ass shouldn't mean he gets a pass which is exactly what he gets time after time after time.

It's his job to say provocative things on yer TeeVee. Nobody thinks he's a real journalist--he's a media personality.

Helen Thomas was once the premier reporter in the White House press corps. Now she's retired--a week too late.

acts as though his job is to influence. He's part of the media landscape. To pretend that his presence doesn't matter all that much is disingenuous. He writes articles, he goes on TV, he writes more articles, he's goes on TV more. THat he's not a reporter doesn't mean shit. Even reporters have their opinions it's just their job to keep their opinion out of their reporting. So some asshole shoves a camera in Ms. Thomas' face after the big discussion was the illegal boarding and murder of activists and she says something that she later regrets. Pat Buchanan means ever bigoted word he says and NEVER apologizes for it and his toxic views continue to float about poisoning the discussion but because he hates Muslims, blacks, and Latinos more than Jews he gets a pass?

That's bullshit! The truth is that the opinions of some groups mean more to the powers that be than the opinions of others. THAT'S why Pat Buchanan can stay on the air despite being a Klansman without the robes. No one ever goes broke hating black and brown people in this country. And Pat Buchanan is a perfect example of that.

she doesn't kiss this WH's ass like so many here think she should.

Germany and Poland and America and everywhere else...people here are only quoting the Germany and poland part which gives it a totally different meaning.

And sweetie pie, how old is the video? Why does it surface now that she was adamant about what israel did to that flotilla? There's an agenda here.

Isn't interesting how fast the Gaza Blockade issue became an issue about a remark by a 90+ year old woman? This is what if wrong with this culture of ours. We have attention deficit disorder.

Good. Too bad it came a week too late.

Advocating for taking a hard look at actions of Israel is one thing.

Defending bigoted words is another.
If Pat Buchanan said the exact same thing would anyone on DU be defending those words?
If not then some people believe what matters is the person saying it not the substance of their words/argument.

For the record I would do a jig if Asshat Pat lost his job too.

both should know better, but we all know what happens to the filters of old people... no matter how successful they were in life.

Uncle Pat is consciously and purposefully taking the positions he does.

There are, apparently, a lot of people who feel the way that Helen Thomas does, yet they continue to pretend that they're really interested in long-term, two state peace with Israel.

If one's definition of "peace" is for the Jews to go away, then fine- be honest, and admit it.

Don't you?

Have you read that post intentionally the wrong way and ignored the others I've made in this thread?

Firing him wouldn't be half of what he deserves.

Arab countries so that they can cease to be refugees?

It's basically saying "They should go back to where they came from 60-odd years ago" vs "They should go back to where they came from 1200-some years ago."

and what of the sensitivities of other victims of genocide in the 20th century... the Armenians, Cambodians, Native Americans across north and South America...

No, they take a back seat as they are limited in political power within the U.S.

As for Pat Buchanan, he's an irredeemable old school Nazi, and I don't understand why he's on the air (same with Glenn Beck, etc.) but their role is clown/commentator, not White House Press Corps Reporter. There is a difference.

countries would join in that call.

Nevertheless, I do think that's a minority position around here.

I think there are far higher percentages that believe Israelis are, en masse, "occupiers" with an illegitimate state, even if their "filters" normally prevent them from saying so in the course of debate on the issue.