To all those not outraged over BP killing the Gulf

First realize that we have watched the government and corporations run over laws, rules and regulations with impunity.

Meanwhile, we, the non-elites are harassed, imprisoned and have had our investments stolen.

Elections have been stolen, WMD lies enforced at the end of a barrel, and the science pointing to the alteration of the climate suppressed.

We are fed up. So don't come in here and start telling us we need to calm down and play by the rules.

This is a whole new field of action and it's gonna take a lot of work and a lot of passion to win this, and if we fail, it'll be all she wrote, the corporations will make slaves of us completely.

This is Oilmageddon.

Got a list?

but which, in order to seize the moral high ground, some are confusing wanting to approach it a different way with wanting to do nothing.

Bryant

Folks are telling us to do nothing. That the laws on the books and the elites in office will handle this, and that any protestations to the contrary are just causing trouble.

They offer no solutions, just more of the same.
More "get in line and wait to be trickled down on"

to do things a different way - they are conformist crooks, either comlicit in the crimes of the current administration or willfully blind and smacking down anybody who disagrees with them.

Thank you for demonstrating the moral high ground.

Bryant

You have always supported the status quo, mostly.
And what a fine fucking mess that's got us into, eh?
Not your fault, personally, so don't make this personal.

But yes, I am on the moral high ground as opposed to BP and bushco, et al.

I'm not sure about the status quo either - Bushco was the status quo there for a while, and I am opposed them.

I do think we need to natinalize BP though (and other oil companies) - i just don't think it will happen.

Bryant

But you are adopting failure? Okeedokee. Thanks.

Or, to put it another way, what would have to happen before BP was nationalized?

I guess if other oil platform near New Orleans had a similar catastrophe, but honestly I'm not hoping for that.

Bryant

problem. What is it that you want to do, exactly. This is sort of an open-ended sort of deal on your part, you know? Tell us your plan. If you don't, how are we supposed to agree to it?

First, describe the problem as you see it.

I did so in the OP, how do you see it?

Problem 1. Right now, we're drilling oil wells in the gulf without the safety precautions needed to keep them from blowing out and without means to fix them if they do.

Problem 2. One of those wells failed and oil is spewing into the Gulf. Stopping that appears to be a very, very difficult problem, and may not be possible until the relief well is drilled and mud can be pumped down there to shut off the flow.

Problem 3. Lots of oil is contaminating shorelines and open water, due to the blowout. It needs to be cleaned up.

Problem 4. We use too much oil and need to reduce our usage so there will not be a need to drill these dangerous wells to feed our hunger for petroleum.

Those are the problems. What are your solutions?

I don't see how WMDs figure into this equation. I don't see how much of what you complained about in your OP figures into the situation.

The Gulf Oil Disaster has the four problems I mentioned above. What do you suggest as solutions for those problems? WMDs aren't relevant, nor is anything unrelated to this disaster. Focus, please.

President Obama has put a moratorium on deep drilling. That's one action. During that period, the problem will be examined closely. What happens after that depends on what is discovered. I'm hopeful that a solution to Problem 1 will be a ban on deep drilling. We shall see. I will do what I can to encourage that end.

President Obama has called in a huge number of experts in an attempt to find a way to shut the blowout off. BP is trying to do that, too. The relief well is being drilled. Will some other measure help? I do not know, since I have zero expertise in deep water drilling. Work is underway to try to stop the flow. They're capturing some of it now, and that's a small step forward. Problem 2 is being worked on. I can't help with that.

Not enough is being done to clean up the current contamination. More resources are needed in that clean up effort. I'm quite certain that such resources are in the pipeline. Problem 3.

President Obama has been calling for a comprehensive plan to reduce our reliance on petroleum since the campaign. He can't single-handedly implement such a plan. In the long term, that is the solution to Problem 4.

You claim you "are certain" and "hopeful" that our glorious lords are doing all they can.

And I am not sure of what they are doing. They lied about WMD, etc. and now I don't trust them like you do. And folks coming in here telling me to trust the lords are not helping the situation. Instead of capping the deceit and helping people to focus their anger, they just tell us to STFU. Like bushco used to do, and became very successful at, right?

You are irrelevant, then, to solving the problem. Good luck.

Read it again, and go read the myriad solutions posted on DU.

The OP:

"First realize that we have watched the government and corporations run over laws, rules and regulations with impunity.

Meanwhile, we, the non-elites are harassed, imprisoned and have had our investments stolen.

Elections have been stolen, WMD lies enforced at the end of a barrel, and the science pointing to the alteration of the climate suppressed.

We are fed up. So don't come in here and start telling us we need to calm down and play by the rules.

This is a whole new field of action and it's gonna take a lot of work and a lot of passion to win this, and if we fail, it'll be all she wrote, the corporations will make slaves of us completely.

This is Oilmageddon"

It was content-free the first time you posted it. Repeating your OP doesn't add any content to it. I'm out of this thread.

You finally got the message.

Your own pointless hand-waving finally got through to you, eh?

My grandparents spoke Cajun French. One of the last cultures untouched by the corporate hand--until now. It's over. The whole idea of coming to Louisiana to enjoy great seafood and Cajun culture are all gone, and they're telling me how to feel about it.

But I am going to tell you that I absolutely am ticked off at the way he has handled this mess!

And yeah, I agree... I had someone telling me how to react/feel about it all! Screw that!!!

Not all of us Obama people are the same, I refuse to defend at any cost.

I too wondered who on DU on Earth failed to be outraged.

My ignore list would crash most computers just loading it at this point, but that's only because it's full of gay haters too.

Without seeing that thread, the OP's subject line makes no sense.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8508750

Instead of telling people how to feel about their state culture being destroyed.

What was it ignored had to say? I can imagine and that's why it is one of two.

This whole 'advice' bullshit, about how we should feel and what actions we should take play only into the elite's desires. Fuck that. We will stand and defend our land as best we can, because we know what our land needs.

to act. Now, I may be one of your ignored people. If so, never mind. Just watch out for the oil on that sand you're sticking your head into.

On occasion you do have something to add. Not here, not yet, but you might, eh?

"Just watch out for the oil on that sand you're sticking your head into."

The one you replied to.

I know you are one of the best.

Sorry for the confusion.

this situation. Emotions aren't going to clean up one drop of oil or stop the billowing leak.

You're confusing how you feel with what to do.

I think this whole "emotion" issue is a misdirect. Because we're seeing that Obama is compromised, he can't come out against who we'd like him to, because he's got too much interest in continuing to receive donations from the oil industry (among many others).

There has been lots of action. Most of it has been ineffective. Right now, some of the leaking oil is being captured. A small step, but a step. The relief well is being drilled. More and more people are being hired in the cleanup efforts. People are working on finding a solution for the underwater plumes of oil. There isn't currently a technology for cleaning that up. One will have to be developed.

A moratorium on new drilling has been put into place, while a study is being done on whether it should be resumed.

There's lots of action. You don't see it because there's not so much hand-waving among the people actually working on the situation as among the people who are displaying their outrage without contributing to the solutions.

... in the case of the BP disaster and all other issues, as a matter of fact.

Thank you for reminding us once again.

Who's being passive and defeated? What are you planning to do to help solve the very real problem? So far, I don't hear any suggestions in this thread...just complaining.

... all over DU and the rest of th' Internets... before this "so what's YOUR plan" gimmick will be retired?

:shrug:

... and copy-and-paste the usual talking points meant to shoot down any and all suggestions?

Seriously, you act as if this is the first thread ever posted on the topic, when in fact proposed solutions have been discussed in detail for weeks now.

So your "Yeah, Well What's YOUR Plan" just falls flat by now. It's not a strawman, it's not even a "gotcha" any more.

It's just a gimmick, and pretty much everyone can see through it at this point.

:hi:

citizens arrest of oil companies...

post even more about it all over the innertubes...

completely stop using anything involving petroleum, like plastics, electricity, paint...

help clean up the mess...

There are many courses of actions that can be taken. Only time will tell which are the most effective. But the first is to make sure who is with us and who is for 'more of the same'.

complained about people who aren't waving their hands as fast as they can. Now's the time for you to post your suggestions of ways we can act to help improve the situation.

Improvement number 1

Resist much and obey little.

Tell us, oh wise one, what do you propose?

Don't shrink away now, c'mon, spit it out.

Or do you not see any problems?

You told me, upthread

"Just watch out for the oil on that sand you're sticking your head into."

the situation.

What does "Resist much and obey little" have to do with fixing this situation.

Admit it: You have no suggestions. You know nothing about the problems. You refuse to see that people are actively working to fix this problem. You are irrelevant when it comes to this issue.

Resist much and obey little? OK. Perhaps I'll see you somewhere with your little sign.

Well, excussssseeee me!!

You f'n know it all. EH?

How gawd damned stupid of a post can anyone make?

You don't know jack-shit about what I have been doing.
It is evident you're the one whose head is stuck in the sand.

All you can do is repeat what the crooks who got us into this mess say!

Then wag your crooked little finger at me with a gawd damned know-it-all false superiority as if you do have the answers.

Your type is to be resisted much and the elite power structure that got us into this mess is to be dis-obeyed. Fuck them!!

Some of us just disagree with your solutions. You do have solutions, right? Sorry, but I can't remember what they were. What do you think will fix the problem?

As you have deduced, this is simply a response to another thread in an effort to stir the pot up and keep emotions running high.

or clean the beaches. In fact, it seems to me that expressing outrage is kind of an easy thing to do. The hard thing to do is to reduce our dependence on oil. The easy way out is to be outraged.

the modest measures we are capable of taking to reduced dependence, which many of us were already doing.

Not saying we can't all improve, but that "outrage" that pushes politicians can be very productive. Look at what the teabaggers' outrage got them, they were totally catered to.

Wait for the general election before you count those chickens.

Of spinning people up without actually saying anything.

Another fine example of the "don't do anything, just sit there" advice that has controlled the masses for far too long, and is why we are so screwn. You set a fine example, Needle.

Of course, I didn't say "dont do anything, just sit there..." but you knew that.

What I did do is paint a picture of you standing in front of a mob of people yelling "I don't know what we need to do but we need to do it right now! Who's with me!?!"

Of course, none of us really know how well the bacteria will fair after they've digested unprecedented amounts of Corexit.

edit: imo

well said.

Thanks.

I guess emotions are running high and we need to have multiple-fronts in the flame-fest.

:nuke:

:applause:

:kick: