NOBODY who would withhold their vote from a Democrat has the right to call themselves "Progressive"

That's right, you CANNOT be a Progressive and withhold your vote from even the most odious right leaning Democrat because legislative bodies work on numbers and if the Democrats do not hold a majority in the legislative body, no Progressive action can even be considered, let alone be voted on.

So if you withhold your vote from any Democrat over some high and mighty purity test, you have just advanced the Conservative cause and you have just become a RIGHTWINGER.

This is not a debatable point. This is absolute fact with regards to the form of government we live under.

what a republican way of doing things... :puke:

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Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

I will do what I must.

And seeing people hope Republicans win is sad.

Every point you make is wrong. Now voting for a Right leaning Dem does not make you a RIGHTWINGER.

Of course those who would vote for the Green Party or Independent or any other third party intend to change the form of government we live under, or at least the two party aspect of it.

You can point out that such efforts aren't likely to work (and unfortunately they aren't); but to condemn them in these harsh terms seems over the top.

Bryant

So they support conservative causes with their pout.

On several issues, there is no functional difference between the two (like Unions, apparently); and if those are issue that are very important to you, well, i can kind of see why you might look for a candidate who ACTUALLY REPRESENTED YOUR POSITIONS.

Bryant

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What silly bullshit :eyes:

Says who?
Those who vote for right wing dems who consistently vote against a progressive agenda and side with the GOP talking points are right wing enablers.
More than one way to look at things.

It's not debatable because it's simply absurd.

Much better to stand on principle and get nothing than to pick the best of undesirable choices and get as much as accomplished as you can...

(I do NOT begrudge anyone fighting like hell for the candidate of their choice in the Primary, but sitting on your hands in November is irresponsible)

November.

That kind of authoritarian crap is most unhelpful.

Lincoln is a conservative, not a progressive. And anybody who doesnt want to vote for her because of that, shouldnt have their label taken away from them.

Now, you can make an argument on whether or not they are "good Democrats." But this argument is ridiculous.

Unfortunately, there are some in our party who think that's a pretty good idea.

The Progressive movement began in the late 19th century as anti-trust, anti-monopolistic, and pro-small town small business "Wealth of Nations" type free market. One of the real markers of progressives today is still that opposition to big business and the modern monopoly corporatist state. I've seen some indications that modern progressivism is about a desire to change the state to something more responsive to its citizens and to erect a barrier between big business and the state.

Where I will agree that Republicans will pass no legislation that address the issue of runaway business, or even attempts to create some progress, how is absolute partisanship of voting only for a Democrat "progressive." To me, that is just partisan, and I do not see partisan as bad.

a real chance of winning in that state.

so it depends where you are - if the third party can really win that's different. But where it leaves us with a Repuke, it's just irresponsible.

By the logic in the OP, white supremacists who vote third party are liberals, Libertarians are liberals, those who vote Constitution Party are liberals, and if the Teabaggers form their own party they are all liberals, yet everyone who voted for Bernie Sanders is a RIGHTWINGER.

Poor use of logic.

This is a silly, reactionary and ineffective post.

Rahm, is that you?

If a Green or a Socialist candidate is on the ballot, they'll be getting my vote.

Right leaning Democrats shouldn't even be in office.

By voting for right wing dems, we send the message that we're ok with the party's shift to the right & what we will get in return, are candidates that are even more rightwing. How do you propose to get rid of rightwing dems with this strategy?

We need to get big money out of politics & regain control of our electoral process - something I don't see dems advocating, BTW.

:toast: :bounce: :kick:

Thank you! :thumbsup:

This notion that the Democratic party should get our vote no matter what they do, even when they do harm to us is absolutely ridiculous.

Golly, you are full of it. How about nobody who tells progressives who they can and can't vote for can call themselves progressive.

My vote (or lack thereof) is the only power I weld against corporate plutocracy. If Democratic party candidates want my vote...they MUST earn it!

J

and then believe anything the media says come from a "White House Official"

Annoying as hell if you ask me!

who bragged about offing the public option?

Because a Republican might be even more effective at eliminating what the public clearly wants? It's choice of - do you want to be stabbed in the back or the chest? Both are lethal. I die either way. Why is it better for me to be stabbed in the back by my own (supposed) kind?

Lincoln escaped by the skin of her teeth (plus I think she was aided by some voting shenanigans which need to be looked into). I'm GLAD that she got the message people were/are pissed off at her. I would have a very very hard time if I lived in Arkansas in deciding if she was really deserving of any vote. Sorry.

If I were the unions, who just also got dissed by the White House, I wouldn't give up. I'd say "oh, yeah"? and I'd encourage all the unions to GOTV and WRITE-IN Halter. So there!

and two wars, alito and roberts with the decision to allow corporations to further infest our elections. I gave you a rec that you will never see.

Should EVER call themselves a progressive...

Shame on you.

n/t

A pig dressed up as a sheep is still a pig.

unrec.

Here in New York state, for example, many candidates are on both the Democratic ticket, and the Working Families ticket. I will always, given a chance, vote for the candidate on the Working Families ticket if that person is on both.

See how that works? Strengthening a third, progressive party, and getting someone elected over a Republican.
I'm sure there are plenty of other examples that show that you don't know what you are talking about.

anyone, and I don't give a fuck what label they have, that votes against my core beliefs. Call me a right winger if you chose. It's nothing more than a label. I'm not voting for a Democrat who is going to vote with the conservatives and further the conservative agenda.

The OP seems to have overlooked that. :eyes:

Caveman can understand.)

...they're being demoralized and disaffected because the "pragmatists" in Washington seem content to "advance the conservative cause" all by themselves.

I will now forget what it is. Seems the kindest thing to do.

there is no debate to be had over your statements...there is no point in debating bullshit...

sP

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An edict from an anonymous person on an online message board will do nothing to change that.

I'm so glad to unrec this.

:eyes:

BULLSHIT ALERT!

Voting for right winged Dems makes you a progressive? Only in bizzaroworld.

I can withhold my vote for any god-damned reason I choose. It's MY vote and you don't get to tell me what I can do with it.

The Democratic party is not entitled to my vote. They have to EARN it.

Especially given what the Democratic party has become, simply another tool for the corporations to use in their quest to fully control this country.

Are you actually telling me that somebody who votes Green, who votes Socialist isn't progressive? Are you telling me that ol' fraud, that Republican in sheep's clothing Specter is progressive?

Sorry, but you are badly mistaken, your logic is flawed. Worse yet, you are helping to perpetuate the ongoing rightward drift, both of the Democratic party and our Washington representatives as well. In other words, you, with your bellicose bullshit, are part of the problem, and certainly not part of the solution.

Besides, who died and made you Daniel Webster? You're simply another anonymous internet poster, you don't get to decide definitions. Your opinion of yourself is, well to put it politely, drastically overinflated.

bogus HOA fees can even call themselves decent human beings.

I also think that a party that has to depend on guilt trips and intimidation rather than earning votes is in a death spiral and I sure as hell ain't any Naderite.

Maybe if you once ever sided against the Reaganites or wrote a diatribe demanding their fealty your whining would have even an iota of credibility.

You EARN votes. You aren't entitled to a single one and neither is this arrogant, corporate taint licking, visionless leadership.

This is quickly transforming from a political coalition to a browbeating scam that works against the poor and working folks and that old dog won't hunt too long and trying it sucks monkey ass.

Work for the interests of common folks and you won't be spending every damn day threatening and armtwisting and could actually focus on getting quality candidates and legislation.

Sometimes it is easier to watch an incumbent DINO loose a general election and then defeat the the Repub with a true Progressive. Than it is to Primary the incumbent.

is espousing views that are odious in the extreme, I'll vote Republican.


I did that very thing in a local election. In this case, the Republican had views and values that were consistent with Democratic views and values, whereas the Democrat did not.

I'm not sorry and I'd do it again.

It's about voting for the ideas/ideals...not the LETTER after the person's name.


One thing that seems to be real hard for some people to understand is that the world is mostly shades of gray...not black and white.



:eyes:

so take your own advise and shove it. We do as we please, you'll have to deal with that!

If democrats don't reign, no progressive action can be ruled upon.....you're very funny.

"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost."
-John Quincy Adams

Every candidate gets reviewed on his or her overall merits and advantages relative to the overall goal of promoting a more liberal political structure. That means I usually vote for the Democratic candidate, but there have been exceptions. Occasionally, promoting a liberal agenda does mean straying across party lines, even if the thought horrifies political purists.

Case in point...I voted in the Republican primary yesterday, on a Republican ballot. Now, before you reach for that pitchfork or Ignore button, consider this: I live in the 19th Congressional district of California, and since I'm officially a DTS voter, I get to pick my party ballot at the polls. CA-19 is a heavily right-leaning district with a Republican majority where no Democrat has polled over 40% in an election in several decades. It's among the most conservative districts in California, and I have the political misfortune to live here.

This year, the choices were simple. On the Democratic side, nobody was running. The state apparatchik refuses to spend money here, and won't financially support declared candidates because it's considered a money hole...we pulled 2% (no exaggeration) in the last general because the Democratic party didn't even field a candidate. On the Republican side, which is assured victory anyway this November, the choices were Nazi, an even bigger Nazi, a Nazi wannabe, and a known Republican moderate. So, I pulled the Republican ballot and voted for the moderate. He won by a narrow margin.

My goal, politically, is to further liberal goals, not Democratic ones. Usually the two are the same. Occasionally they aren't. Yesterday, the most liberal major candidate happened to be a Republican.

Which is better for the party? Me wasting my vote on a Democrat who can't win? Or me wasting my vote on a Republican moderate in an attempt to keep a rabid rightwinger from getting back into Congress? Richard Pombo, who lost yesterday, proposed selling off a quarter of our national forests...and all of ANWR...the last time he was in Congress. As a proud granola eating tree hugger, keeping him out of office was a priority that overrode all other political goals.

So, no, I don't agree with you. Sometimes you CAN vote across the aisle, and still be a good Democrat. Of course, I consider it more important to be a good liberal than a good Democrat, so if you disagree, it's not going to hurt my feelings any.

I live in a very liberal part of New York City.
I have, on occasion, voted third party, in order to strengthen that third party, when it was clear that the Dem was going to win anyway. Strengthening progressive third parties puts a some pressure on the Dems to be a little less corporate. Or so the theory goes.

There are plenty of examples why this OP is, in fact, "debatable."

where Dems ARE the "New Republicans." I vote for liberal progressive candidates. If your candidate has a (D) behand their name but votes like a repug, he or she does not deserve my vote or the vote of any other traditional Democrat. Right wing "Democrats" are the ones who advance the conservative cause. They were DINOs from day one; they vote with the GOP on the issues, that won't end unless WE end it by getting rid of every one of them.

Seriously; where have you been for the past 15 years?

we on the left know how to kill each other off. So much so I don't see how we ever get one of our people elected and then we moan and groan about republicans in power. Sorry folks but we get so self righteous at times, we do get scum elected.