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"Hate speech is not free speech!" Agree or Disagree with this statement

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el_bryanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 08:58 AM
Original message
Poll question: "Hate speech is not free speech!" Agree or Disagree with this statement
This was quoted in an article at Townhall.com (Conservative website that I peruse for stuff to write on). Was curious to see what people around here thought of it.
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kirby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. Sorry, First Admendment trumps...
Hate speech is protected except in rare cases where it incites an immediate riot and/or is libel/slander.
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ParkieDem Donating Member (417 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. Absolutely.
Hate speech is free speech.

It's also free speech when we respond and point out what backwards, racist, fucktards they are for making such speech in the first place.
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
2. Who gets to decide what is hate speech?
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Exactly....
...next thing you know, criticizing big business will be defined as 'hate speech'.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
23. The government
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. And you would be ok with that?
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Absolutley not
Edited on Wed Jun-09-10 01:54 PM by Freddie Stubbs
Which is why such laws are a bad idea.
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
3.  The whole hate speech issue is an attempt to claim Hate laws are unconstitutional..
Edited on Wed Jun-09-10 09:11 AM by Ozymanithrax
You can express your hate in speech anyway you want; including answering questions with racist diatribes on blogs, or by supporting racist candidates with the ultimate form of speech, money. What you can not do is call for people to act on hate and break laws or violate another persons rights.

Actions are not speech, and unless hate speech rises to the level of yelling fire in a crowded, non-burning theater, it is free speech.
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. Excellent reply, I totally agree. n/t
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
4. I disagree with the term "hate speech."
The right thinks pro-union and anti-racist speech is "hate speech" fomenting "class and racial resentment." We need to be clear what we are talking about. I prefer mass confrontation in cases in fascist propaganda, as opposed to administrative or legal action.
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el_bryanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Is what a David Duke would say Hate Speech?
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. It is fascist speech.
"Hate" is an emotion that can be positive or negative. We should hate fascists and be merciless toward them. Nothing wrong with that. I'm arguing for terminology that is not neutral to content.
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el_bryanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Dupe
Edited on Wed Jun-09-10 10:46 AM by el_bryanto
Tried to correct a typo.
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el_bryanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Interesting - what if someone says we need School Vouchers?
Or what if someone says "We need to build a wall between here and Mexico?"

Bryant
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I didn't advocate legal penalties.
Racists and fascists will always try to use code words to conceal their views while transmitting them at the same time. We just need to be politically adept at exposing them.
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el_bryanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. So we win the war of ideas essentially - that works for me. n/t
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AnArmyVeteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
7. What about liability laws to make public people be honest?
If a person continually spewed out dishonest statements, or outright lies, they should be held accountable. It would certainly shut down right wing radio where they say the most ridiculous things imaginable. So far, I have been unable to listen to more than 3-5 minutes of right wing radio before I hear a distortion or outright lie.
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el_bryanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. "What is Truth" said Pilate and washed his hands.
But more seriously, who gets to decide what the truth is?

Bryant
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AnArmyVeteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. If someone says you murdered someone and that person is still alive, then it's a lie. It's easy...
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el_bryanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Yeah that one is pretty open and shut - but it does seem like
there are other ones - particularly when you get to shading the truth, that might be more problematic.

Bryant
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Publication in peer-reviewed academic journals.
Not anywhere near infallible, of course, but right more often than any other method.

One of the reasons I love being a mathematician is the possibility of being Right - not just "having come up with a theory that fits all the available evidence" or "right as far as we can tell" or "nearly everyone agrees with me".
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
12. “If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.”
Chomsky
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KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
19. Hate speech may be free, but it sure isn't smart.
All it serves is the ego. It doesn't do a thing for enlightening or improving the life of a society. That part keeps getting pushed into the corner.

This is why I put up such a fit over the "Muhammad cartoon" subject. Of course it is your right to demean Islam - but what is your point, and do you see some redeeming lasting value out of alienating a sixth of the world's population, the vast majority of whom are peaceful, intelligent and benevolent people?
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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
20. Yes, this is exactly the sort of law...
...the RW extremists should have at their disposal if/when they win an election.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
21. Depends on the context. When used by those in power,
it could be oppression. When used by a news organization, it could be propaganda. When used by citizens, it could be free speech.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
22. Totally disagree.
I believe in full free speech, even the ugly stuff. When speech incites to direct illegal action, then it can becomes a problem.
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dorkulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
26. Gotta wonder what the results would look like if you hadn't sourced Townhall.com
Just a thought.
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el_bryanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-10 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Have to be honest though.
Bryant
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