The N-Word Redux

A few weeks ago I participated in a number of threads concerning the brouhaha surrounding Don Imus's "nappy-headed hos" comment. A lot of discussion -- both at DU and in the wider media -- grew to involve the use of "the n-word" by African Americans and, specifically, rappers and hip-hop performers. These were, of course, two different issues, but I don't think it was invalid for one to lead to the other. Some pointed out -- and rightly so -- that many have used the n-word in an attempt to disempower it. Others mentioned -- again, rightly so -- that writers may choose to use an "offensive" word because more polite words will not have the same effect. Whether or not I agree, I understand that many consider the n-word to be a special case, if not unique. So I knew that people's thoughts on that would be complex. Nonetheless, I was disappointed to see how many people wrote to insist that rappers be given carte blanche -- not just for "nigger," but also for "bitch," and "ho," and various other derogatory terms. My disappointment was heightened by the fact that so many of the writers fell back on the old (and incredibly patronizing) "it's part of their culture" line -- as if referring to women as "hos" and "bitches" was somehow akin to a devout Jew wearing a kippa or Polish ladies making pisanka eggs for Easter.

I am a teacher in an urban middle school. I very quickly grew cynical regarding the kids CONSTANTLY referring to one another as "niggers." There is no desire to disempower the word. Nothing literary. They are just obsessively copying what they see in the media. And -- like the 'grills,' like the t-shirts decorated with gigantic platinum $100 bills, like the clothes with all of the tags still hanging off of them -- I have to be honest and say that I think it's just another ugly part of an ugly culture. (And before anyone has a conniption fit, the culture I'm talking about is the media-bred rap culture...NOT "Black Culture"...NO, NO, NO...don't even go there.)

The whole point of this is: a few days ago the topic of classroom discussion was Australia. Inevitably someone said "G'day, mate." Some of the kids needed an explanation of the word "mate" in that context, and after one was given one of the kids remarked matter-of-factly "They call each other mate the way we call each other nigger." I know it's dangerous to make broad judgements based on the actions of adolescents, but I have to admit that I have very, very little sympathy left for the attempts to intellectualize the continued over-use of "nigger" -- let alone "ho", "bitch" and other insults. Am I a hopelessly closeted bigot? Am I just an uptight white guy? (Actually, I AM an uptight white guy, but still...) Anyhow...DU is generally such a cool bunch of people, and I value your thoughts about my rambling.

In the 1950s in an effort to demonstrate that segregation was not damaging to Blacks, a study was published that demonstrated that Black girls in the North prefered playing with white dolls while Black girls in the segregated South prefered Black dolls. The conclusion was that segragated Blacks are more contented with their race than integrated ones.

Thurgood Marshall was not impressed. He said something to the effect of my doll is a n****r and I'm a n****r too. In other words, the girl living in segregation had accepted her role as an inferior grade of citizen, while the girl in an integrated community resented it. My personal opinion is that casual use of self-insulting terms is a way of conditioning people to accept a socially inferior position.

do you have a source?

pulled it from the attic of my brain.:shrug:

I have many, many psych studies deposited in the same way :D

:hi:

I think it might be somewhere in the dicta of Brown v. Board of Education.

I guess my attempts at supressing the memory of being a law student are still unsuccessful, then.

I know about this study too. I put "black children prefer white dolls" in my Google search bar and came up with 1,040,000 hits. So it should be easy enough to find.
Lee

Look at how words like "colored" and "negro" have become taboo (even though they were once considered a more polite version of "nigger"). And how "nigger" has, in some contexts, returned to mainstream culture. Why nigger? Why is that word pulled out of the racist lexicon, while the others remain firmly locked in its pages? I kind of see a similarity in the gay community's use of the word "fag/faggot." They have taken the most vile term others use for them, and have made it part of their vocabulary; indeed, they insist it can only be part of THEIR vocabulary.

Is it a matter of consciously "fighting the power of the word?" Or just a way to subconsciously reduce the pain of being called by that term by bigots? Sometimes I wish I had gone into linguistics instead of psychology, though the two are closely related

"blackies" and "darkies." They may not have been racially enlightened, but they weren't bigots either. That's just how they talked in the 20s, and they carried it into the 80s and 90s and beyond.

As for the kids calling each other nigger...I think it's incredibly disingenuous to think that you can use the word CONSTANTLY, both in casual conversation and on records, and still expect EVERYONE ELSE to treat it like the ineffible name of God. But I'm a cynical effer.

for all people to use all words?

In spite of the feelings posted elsewhere in this thread I understand why someone might think "that's OUR word!" But I don't like it. And that's OK. I don't have to like everything. I guess that my thinking in some of the more recent discussions has been that the cartoonish over-use of the n-word inevitably cheapens it. That doesn't mean that it's not still hateful and hurtful, but I think it diminishes its status as the linguistic holy of holies.

:hi:

:P

but, thinking again about my students, they use the word constantly -- there is no context. Now, you and I and everybody else reading this thread know the backstory, the history, the connotations, on and on, and if we say otherwise we're lying. But what about the 10-year-old kid who hears his classmates using the word every ten seconds, who hear it non-stop in songs and on videos? He's hearing it in a context that is no different than the way you or I might hear "man" or "guy." Why should this hypothetical kid be expected to assign any special significance to the word? If we have to tell the kid "I know you heard the word two-thousand times at school today...but it's actually very, very "special," and YOU should never, never say it" I think it's perhaps time to consider that the word might not be quite as "special" anymore. Which is not to say that it's not still an awful word or that we should all start using it right now....

There was a discussion with the author of the book, The N Word,by Jabari Asim
http://www.amazon.com/N-Word-Who-Can-Shouldnt/dp/0618197176/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-0123739-4340074?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178728483&sr=8-1<'/url>

It was a very good discussion regarding the origins of that word and the evolution of it's current usage. I would recommend this to those who sincerely are interested in this subject.

that is literally next door to the building I'm in right now. I would love to go, but time with my daughter comes first, and I don't think that it will be a good lecture for a four-year-old.

Yes, time with your daughter is your priority. :) It might not be a good lecture for a 4 yr. old.

What a coincidence that he will be so close to you. His segment on CSPAN was excellent. I watched it when they showed it again because I thought it was very good.

I'm not big on magic and haved lived long enough to be quite weary with the politicization of "magic" words.

You attribute the word to media rap culture, but it has a much longer history of use within African American communities.

Your explanation is historically unjustifiable. In my view, it puts the cart before the horse.

At no time did I say anything even remotely suggesting that the word or its current usage originated in rap culture. But I'll stand by the idea that rap's cartoonish use of the word has trivialized it.

And...my explanation of WHAT is historically unjustifiable? I don't recall trying to explain anything, let alone historically.

what the n-word has to do with fashion in rap culture, and what's wrong with the audience emulating their pop icons, as compared to every other pop culture? Because this seems like it's just a weird rant against rap music.

I don't care what you call it, but I know ignorance when I see it.

And that's all it is.

Nigger. Faggot. Whatever other words you want to come up with. They're all demeaning. Whether its from the mouth of a straight white or a homosexual black, its still ignorance.

"We're taking away the hurt by using it!" No, you're really not. You're just making yourself into exactly what the bigots want you to be, a bunch of stupid niggers or faggots too stupid to realize that you're keeping yourselves down, a modern minstrel show.

Now, right or wrong, to White America rap (or hiphop, or whatever you want to call it) culture _is_ black culture. Because when I turn on the television, I don't see positive black role models, I see thug life rappers, sex obsessed R&B singers, and atheletes fueled with drugs and committing crimes... This is the uniquely black role models?

All of this ignorance, with a healthy dose of classism, is keeping people stupid and keeping this crap going and the only thing that I seem to hear is people cropping up and telling me that its OK for rappers to say nigga coz they're black.

No, its not. It never was, it never will be, and unless we seriously shift our attitudes about things (and stop blaming someone else, nannystaters!) we're doomed to only continue our downhill trend.

This isn't the world I want for my children. I don't think its the world that any black or homosexual parent wants for their children, or anyone elses' either.

But, who's going to do anything? We're too busy mincing around the issue saying nonsense like "n-word" because we're afraid we might upset someone by actually laying it out there like it is.

Because you just used the word "nigger" and "faggot" too. Oh, whoops! Now I'm ignorant.

But seriously, what I consider ignorant is people who dismiss and entire art form that they don't even listen too.

No, because I'm (under the impression of) having an intelligent conversation about these words, so I don't feel the need to have to play into the ridiculous notion of saying "n-word" to appease people.

It also has no bearing on teh fact that people who use these sorts of words in an attempt to remove the hate are just making themselves look as uneducated as those who hurl them as insults.

Finally, I'm not entirely sure what "I consider ignorant is people who dismiss and entire art form that they don't even listen too" has to do with anything here, as I don't think I made any indications on rap music, nor for that matter my personal feelings on it.

Which, for the record, I do happen to listen to quite a bit of it, although admittedly the appeal of 90% of post gangsta rap is utter trash. Why? Because for some reason I can't quite figure out it glorifies thug life and prison culture, two things that any sane person who wants the best for themselves should NOT emulate. More to the point, but through the mass media and marketing, more and more impressionable youth are getting the idea that its the only way to live, and that they've made it if they're slingin' rock, pulling shorties, or carrying a gun.

Witness the current state of things as we look at the people who've been raised on a steady diet of gangsta rap.

when you use the word, it's intelligent because not using it is a ridiculous appeasement.

But it's uneducated when black people use it to remove the hate from the word...

Hmm.

I'm also having trouble reconciling this:

"Because when I turn on the television, I don't see positive black role models, I see thug life rappers, sex obsessed R&B singers, and atheletes fueled with drugs and committing crimes... This is the uniquely black role models?"

with this:

"as I don't think I made any indications on rap music, nor for that matter my personal feelings on it."

Also this:

"although admittedly the appeal of 90% of post gangsta rap is utter trash. Why? Because for some reason I can't quite figure out it glorifies thug life and prison culture."

"More to the point, but through the mass media and marketing, more and more impressionable youth are getting the idea that its the only way to live, and that they've made it if they're slingin' rock, pulling shorties, or carrying a gun."

How do you feel about rock and roll, i.e. white, music?

As you inferred from my comments I'm not a big fan of rap music -- I'll admit that. But the point I'd meant to make (and I can see how this might have been lost) is that for my students (and, I imagine, a good many others) the non-stop use of "nigger" has no thought behind it other than the drive to comply with a trend. It's not about disempowering the word, it's not about reducing the hurt -- it's about copying whatever you see and hear in the media. And while I might respect a Richard Pryor trying to drain the word of its power, I just can't summon up the same reverence for something that comes out of kids mimicking videos. You asked "what's wrong with the audience emulating their pop icons, as compared to every other pop culture?" I'm an equal-opportunity cynic on this point: I'm no more in favor of emulating John Lennon or Bob Dylan or Jerry Garcia than I am Tupac or Biggie. But I think the bigger point is that there is a huge difference between "emulating" and "obsessively duplicating." I can emulate John Lennon by sharing his vision of world peace, not by copying every detail of his wardrobe, speech patterns, mannerisms, etc. Even for a twelve-year old that would be a bit creepy. Sure, there is always an element of conformity in pop culture, but I think that what we see today takes conformity to unprecedented levels. And that's not just about rap music -- it took about a day and a half for all of the NASCAR fans in my corner of Georgia to switch over to ball caps with logos on the CORNER of the bill. Our society as a whole has largely lost the ability to filter out the crap that comes our way...we swallow all of it. Does that make us CARP? Uh oh....

"I very quickly grew cynical regarding the kids CONSTANTLY referring to one another as "niggers." There is no desire to disempower the word. Nothing literary. They are just obsessively copying what they see in the media. And -- like the 'grills,' like the t-shirts decorated with gigantic platinum $100 bills, like the clothes with all of the tags still hanging off of them -- I have to be honest and say that I think it's just another ugly part of an ugly culture. (And before anyone has a conniption fit, the culture I'm talking about is the media-bred rap culture...NOT "Black Culture"...NO, NO, NO...don't even go there.)"

You say, explicitly, that the kids using the word are "just obsessively copying what they see in the media." Is there another way to read this than as an explanation of the word's use in African American youth culture?

But here is where the historical problem comes in: the word has been in widespread use in African American culture long before it appeared in mainstream media representations (as used by black people), and long before the emergence of hip hop culture. Black kids in the 1920's called each other "nigga," as they did in the 1930's, 1940's, 1950's, and 1960's. Etcetera.

You also suppose that resignification has to be intentional for it to have any currency. To put it another way, you want people to be intentionally trying to undermine the negative connotations of the word as a racist expression for them to use it at all. If they're not being "political" or "literary" about it, then you think it is wrong. And, you think they're not. I agree that they're not. I don't think the average African American kid is trying to overturn racism and resignify a racist word when he says "Hurry up, nigga!" to one of his friends. But I don't think it's wrong for all that, and I don't think essential resignification requires political intention. That's not how culture works, and that's not how language works. I also think that the Africa American "community" (there's more than one) has successfully resignified the word internally, while maintaining its racist signification when used by whites, a remarkable, if often politically inconvenient, linguistic accomplishment. And intention has nothing to do with it. In other words, African American culture has trivialized the word successfully (and that's a good thing) internally, while maintaining its importance externally.

This is what secretly drives white racists crazy, and they yell "Hey! They say it all the time! Why can't I???" Because African American culture has resignified the word along cultural lines, that's why.

I like Chris Rock and Talib Kwale on this. Chris Rock once said "I never say the 'N' word. I just say nigga." That's about as trenchant a critique of the way racism functions today as I can imagine, and hilarious to boot. I recently heard Talib Kwale speak, and he noted that he uses "nigga" in his songs because "that's the way I speak with my friends...it would be weird to say 'this brotha,' or something." Indeed.

suggesting that I thought it started there. I didn't say that and I don't think that.

Actually, I DON'T suppose "that resignification has to be intentional for it to have any currency." I think that you lead into some really interesting stuff there, and I'm going to re-read it when I have time to google some stuff. Look...I'm absolutely NOT arguing for the "decriminalization" of the n-word or any other slur, or for feel-good city council resolutions condemning the word, or for censoship, or for self-censorship. I don't like double standards -- but, as I've written elsewhere here, that's OK. Whether or not the Purple Chez likes something is not (yet) a universal standard of right and wrong. And by double standards I don't mean "Hey! They say it all the time! Why can't I???" because that's not the way that works. There are just times when I want to say "ya know, that works both ways" -- not because I want to enable bigotry but rather because...uh...it works both ways.

So it doesn't work both ways at all. The plain fact is that the word "nigger," when uttered by a white person, generally has a different meaning and effect than the word "nigga" uttered by a black person in particular conventional circumstances. It simply means differently, as a result of its "embeddedness" in social relationships. This is obvious - in practice - to all but the most socially obtuse in our society. Everybody knows that if a white person in a room full of black people yells "Come here, nigger!" there will be a much different response and effect than if a black person utters the same expression in the same circumstances (which doesn't mean that all the black people in the room will approve, of course). This is not a mystery to anyone. Some draw the conclusion that there is thus a "double standard." This is nonsense, and a very elementary linguistic mistake of locating meaning in the signifier. Meaning is not in the signifier, but in the complex social web of relations.

If I yell fire in an empty field, it has an utterly different effect (and meaning) than if I yell it in a crowded theater, or as the commander of a group of soldiers (or National Guardsmen on a college campus). We very naturally apply different "standards" to each of these situations, because we understand that they are different, and that the meaning of the terms and the act of uttering them is therefore different. The same applies to the "nigger/nigga" situation. It's not a double standard. It's apples and oranges: there is no common act to which a single standard could apply. It's a category error.

When you say that the kids are just copying what they see in the media, you are describing a cause and effect relationship. It's just as likely (more so, even, given historical usage patterns) that the kids are using terminology that is common in their social milieu; that it also happens to be common in the media is certainly an interesting part of that social milieu, but can hardly be pointed at as an exclusive cause. I was only responding to your words, as you presented them.

I specifically said that I WASN'T talking about "They can say it, why can't we?" when I was talking about double standards...it's not necessary to explain to me that White folks using "nigger" as a hate word is different from Black folks using it in casual conversation.

Again, I agree with the meat of most of what you're saying. And, again, as I said previously, I'm not advocating legislation or resolutions or penalties or firings or censorship. And I couldn't care less what people say in personal conversation. That is absolutely none of my business. But I just don't buy the idea that "nigger" is the one and only word that society can't weigh in on, even if "weighing in" means simply expressing the view that the word is not an appropriate part of public discourse. (And I especially don't buy the idea, which was in fact expressed in other, earlier threads, that "bitch" and "ho" should also be enshrined as culturally protected words.) And I think it's especially troubling that even African-Americans who express their dislike of the word are often marginalized or written off as culturally unaware and out of touch. You were probably right on the money when you wrote "It's just as likely...that the kids are using terminology that is common in their social milieu." But the fact that it's part of their social milieu doesn't necessarily mean that it's a good thing. (And I realize as I write it that "a good thing" is a judgement call.) Physical violence against women is obsiously a part of my students' social milieu. I'm still not used to seeing guys pick fist fights with girls on a daily basis. Certainly, we would all agree that violence against women is inappropriate in ANY context, but there are also other, less dramatic things that are a part of their social milieu, that were a part of my social milieu when I was a kid, and that have been a part of other kids' social milieus, and it doesn't necessarily mean that our society is somehow obligated to embrace them. Like I've said, I've got no business in anyone else's personal conversation, and I'm not advocating for any sort of legal or official action. I just think that if a good bit of our society -- including the subset of African-American society -- thinks that "nigger" doesn't belong in public discourse they shouldn't immediately be dismissed as ignorant crackers and uncle toms. That's all.

He uses the n-word an awful lot to.

then again I'm Hispanic and dont have to put up with all of the politically correct white guilt that some anglos seem to burden themselves with.