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Can we discuss serious SHORT TERM solutions to the gasoline price mess?

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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 11:11 AM
Original message
Can we discuss serious SHORT TERM solutions to the gasoline price mess?
I'm all for fuel efficiency and reducing the need for oil by using public transit, alternative methods, etc.--who isn't?

But those will take years and cost millions of lives (sorry for the Animal House reference). Instead of us sniping at each other about the effectiveness of a one-day boycott, what can the average American do in the short term to stick it to the oil companies (I know, but I'm always a postive thinker, can't help it).

I lived through the '70s and the real oil crises although I was quite young. I remember the lines at the pumps and that people actually did make a concerted effort to cut down on consumption, even in my little burg.

We're smart folks here at DU and I'm willing to bet we can come up with some short-term sacrifices that Cody and Jennifer Pinot-Grigio would even be willing to make to show Big Oil that we do have some power.

Any ideas?

I, for one, have just redioscovered the joy of riding a bike--something I haven't done in 10 years or more--and I'll spread the gospel of velocepedity to anyone who's willing to listen.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. you've answered your own question-- conserve now by any means possible....
Just about everyone can reduce their driving. Make errands part of your normal commute rather than additional trips. Walk more. Bicycle. Pay attention to the things you buy-- purchase items produced locally whenever possible. Those nice grapes from Chile used a lot of fuel to get here.

I suspect EVERYONE could reduce their fuel use by 20 percent with only minor changes in lifestyle.

I also suspect that few people will do it.
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spinbaby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. It's not always so easy
I have to drive to work. I do my shopping on the way home from work rather than make a special trip. I keep weekend trips to visit friends and relatives to a minimum. I can't cut back on driving. I can't use public transportation because there isn't any. I can't walk or bike because I live in one of those miraculous sidewalk-free far suburbs. I do think that something all of us that have to drive can do is to stop spending money on anything that isn't absolutely necessary and buy it locally if possible. Maybe some pain in retail sales will help.

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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. no,it's not easy but it IS possible....
You don't need a sidewalk to ride a bike, for example-- in fact, cyclists are not pedestrians and should not be on the sidewalk in any event. Don't visit friends and family as often. Whatever. The point is that we've developed a lifestyle that we think affords us few options but which is simply not sustainable. The lifestyle you've described will have to change, whether you like it or not.

I'm 52 years old and overweight. By the end of the summer I've set myself a goal of getting back to cycle commuting, which I've let lapse during the last few years. It's 10 miles each way, much of it on a busy highway, but it's do-able and even enjoyable once I get the right attitude about it.

I think everyone should set themselves a goal of reducing their fuel use by 20-25 percent during the coming months. Think of it this way-- we're going to be forced to do it soon because of growing fuel scarcity and high costs. Why not start the process voluntarily and circumvent some of the pain?
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. I've discovered staying home, for one thing.
I'm in AZ and air-conditioning is essential but I've moved to a far more fuel efficient house and I'm also planning to simply STAY HOME more. Staying home is a struggle for me--I've always enjoyed being out and about but just last Saturday my son, husband, and I took a lovely bike ride, then came home to watch the NBA playoofs and had a wonderful weekend at home--something we definitely are NOT used to.

We took the car out only to get groceries and ended up having a better weekend than we have in many, many months.

As someone mentions downthread, we need to stop thinking that we necessarily have to sacrifice. I hate to call it this, but reeducation may be more along the lines I'm thinking of.
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
2. Why I'm confused about this issue.
I just read that cars and diesels account for 20%
of co2 emissions.

Can that be right? Only 20%. WTF!

I mean, I was going to say drive less and use
vehicles that are more fuel efficient.. but now I
wonder what good it will do if a fuckin 80% of
the emissions come from other sources. What
the fuck are they?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Buying a hybrid still helps
the overall picture
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Other CO2 emitters...
IIRC, the other "heavy hitter" CO2 emitters are:

o Electrical power generation
o Heat for industrial processes
o Building heating
o Airplanes

Tesha
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tubbacheez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
3. Here's why the task is so difficult.
Any short-term solution, by definition, won't last. And soon prices will reach market equilibrium again.


If people want a quick-fix, there isn't any. We don't hold the cards. Our collective demand for gas is so high, and so reliable, it's like a group addiction. Big Oil can easily find customers to replace those of us who walk away.


Our cities and suburbs were designed with cheap gas in mind. Life without a private car is possible, but strongly discouraged by the layout of our neighborhoods. Even as DU'ers make sacrifices to buy less gas, there's a nation of gasoline addicts who will be ecstatic to buy all the gas we leave at the pump. Heck, any price drop will motivate them to buy more gas and drive even more than they already do.


But that doesn't mean all hope is gone. As you point out, even if the price of gas is high, the costs to an individual can be decreased by using less. This won't change prices unless nearly everyone in the U.S. follows suit. But at least you personally get some financial relief.

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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
4. Wood gasifiers. Turn your yard debris into fuel.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
7. Car maintainance
keep that up and that will save some money

Tire pressure
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taterguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
9. Stop calling conservation a sacrifice
I use a bicycle because quite frankly I enjoy riding a bike but I don't enjoy driving a car. I'll ride to work unless the weather is truly miserable or if I have to do something like pick up a 20 pound bag of dog food on the way home.

People need to realize that a lot fuel saving measures are also a lot more fun.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. Good point. I think one of the biggest issues here is marketing.
We clearly have an administration that is hostile towards any sort of conservation efforts, so we can't expect agencies like the EPA, etc. to run marketing campaigns.

I enjoyed riding the bus to work before my son started school, unfortunately it was out of the question after. Lots of time for reading that I otherwise couldn't (or perhaps WOULDN'T) have made for myself otherwise.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
10. I think we can pressure the industry with a serious push to end their subsidies
that might motivate them into doing what they have in the past to bring prices down to affordable levels.


from The Union of Concerned Scientists:

"Government directly subsidizes oil consumption through preferential treatment in tax codes. A multitude of federal corporate income tax credits and deductions results in an effective income tax rate of 11 percent for the oil industry, compared to the non-oil industry average of 18 percent. If the oil industry paid the industrywide average tax rate (including oil) of 17 percent, they would have paid an additional $2.0 billion in 1991. Our results are consistent with a recent report by the Alliance to Save Energy that estimated the benefits of individual federal corporate income tax provisions. Their results showed that in 1989 preferential treatment yielded $1.8 billion to $4.6 billion in individual income tax benefits to the oil industry (Koplow, 1993).

At the state and local levels, sales taxes for general revenues on petroleum products are lower than the average sales tax rates, and consequently, motorists underpay for general government services. (Sales taxes are charges on petroleum products above user fees that are used for general revenues.) Another recent study, by the Alliance to Save Energy, found that state and local governments taxed gasoline at about half the rate as other goods -- approximately 3 percent versus 6 percent (Loper, 1994) -- resulting in an estimated $2.7 billion revenue loss from gasoline sales alone in 1991. When home, industry, and office petroleum products are included, the total state and local revenue loss sums to $4.1 billion.

Net Government Expenditures

Federal, state, and local governments provide a variety of oil- and transportation-related infrastructures and services. Some of these expenditures are financed through earmarked user fees, such as dedicated highway fuel taxes and vehicle registration fees. What we refer to as "net government expenditures" (i.e., government expenditures not financed through user fees) are either direct subsidies or indirect subsidies. Direct subsidies include government-funded energy research and development. Indirect subsidies include the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, military expenditures related to the Persian Gulf, and police and fire protection related to highway use. Although "user fees" in the form of gas taxes, registration fees, and tolls pay for a portion of the infrastructure services, large government outlays remain that must be covered by general revenues. Delucchi and Murphy (1995) estimated the net government expenditures at the federal, state, and local levels to be from $25 billion to $45 billion in 1991. (Delucchi's <1995> estimates were only for transportation and ignored the portion of expenditures that subsidized oil not used for motor vehicle fuels. Total oil industry and motor vehicle subsidies would consequently be larger.)

Based on a recent report by the Alliance to Save Energy (Koplow, 1993), we estimated that the total expenditures by federal agencies alone amounted to between $1.4 billion and $2.0 billion in 1990. (Unlike Delucchi <1995>, Koplow <1993> i) does not include state and local government outlays directly benefiting the oil industry; ii) does not include government expenditures on non-oil motor vehicle infrastructure and services; and iii) includes federal expenditures for infrastructure and services related to the shipping of oil. The first two factors far outweigh the third. Consequently, the direct federal outlays are an order of magnitude smaller than the total net government expenditures.) The five largest agency outlays were the Army Corps of Engineers Civil Program, the US Coast Guard, the Maritime Administration, the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, and the Department of Energy. The first three outlays total about $1 billion annually and benefit the oil industry through infrastructure and services related to the shipping of oil. The Strategic Petroleum Reserve's existence is a direct result of our overdependence on imported oil and is intended to reduce the impacts of a severe supply disruption. It costs $320 to $400 million annually to maintain. Finally, the Department of Energy spends over $100 million annually on developing and improving oil production techniques.

http://go.ucsusa.org/publications/report.cfm?publicationID=149
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. This could work and have a massive chilling effect
on other subsidized industries.

The problem is spreading the word. As effective as the internet is, it can't do the job of organizing. Everyone is hit hard by this.
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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
11. Some ideas
I don't even own a car, but I love to walk and live in an area with very good public transportation, including a nearby commuter train line (five minutes from my apartment) and even a number of free shuttles.

That said, there are some commonsense suggestions for drivers who want to cut down

1. Car pool. Figure out if there is someone at the office who lives nearby or even someone who lives nearby and works at an office close to you. Then share the driving. Add a third person and you increase fuel efficiency even more.

2. Plan out your errands a little better. One thing you learn if you're a pedestrian or a patron of public transportation is to plan your trips more efficiently. The same philosophy works for drivers as well.

3. Walk or ride a bike when you can. Some of your regular trips may be unrealistic to make on foot or on a bicycle, but if you inventory your weekly errands, you may find that there are some trips you can make without taking the car. Given that all of us are supposed to be getting 30 minutes of exercise each day (according to some recommendations), this provides an efficient way of gaining exercise and saving gas.

4. Cut down on consumption. It may be impossible to buy that snazzy new widget you've had your eye on for some time without taking the car, but have you ever wondered whether you truly need that snazzy widget? If after some soul-searching the answer is no, you'll be doing yourself a number of favors: You'll be saving money, saving gas, and breaking the cycle of mindless consumption.

5. Shop locally. Here's another win-win situation. Learn to patronize local businesses instead of relying on big-box stores for everything. If you calculate the cost of gas into your trips to the mall, you may find that those stores aren't as economical as you thought. What's more, shopping locally helps your local economy.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
12. maybe if oil bidniz executives started meeting the fate of so many bio-scientists
over the last decade, things might change


walking, biking, mass transit, staying at home, planning trips more carefully to cut down on trips
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
13. Right, those of us with VWs and other 4 cylinder
econocars back in the 70s had the last laugh. Detroit finally started to make small cars, but they thought small cars would only appeal to the poorest, folks who neither expected nor deserved much quality. They were awful. They're not nearly as bad now.

I was lucky enough to spend the early to mid 70s in a city with decent mass transit. The VW was used only to get out of the city. I can remember looking out of my window at the local gas station--called the Robber Baron because his prices were always at least ten cents a gallon higher than anyone else's--and seeing cars lined up the street and around the corner, mostly desperate drivers in land barges with 8 cylinder engines. His high prices meant his gas supply lasted a little longer.

People then did what people now will have to start to do: look for housing closer to work, consolidate errands and shopping into one trip, discover the joys of vacationing at home with the phone off the hook.

They'll probably also start trying to dump their gas hogs on the used car market so they can get something small and efficient. That eventually happened in the 70s, too.

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Vexatious Ape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
14. Hypermiling
A Hypermiler is some one that alters their driving to exceed the EPA estimated milage on their vehicles. I was getting something like 45-51 mpgs in my Prius and now I'm getting 54-70 mpgs. You don't need a hybrid to do this--just slow the hell down, brake a lot less and there's a few other things. Here's a link to a Mother Jones article that got me into it, and it has more tips.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/01/king_of_the_hypermilers.html?welcome=true

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypermiler
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. Had to drive yesterday
I cruised along at just under the speed limit as everyone else passed me. They rushed to the next light and braked hard. I timed the lights and at each intersection that had an open lane passed all of them as the light turned green as they started their mad dash again from a standstill.

I never stopped in ten miles across six lights. But my fellow travelers stopped at nearly all six. Go figure!

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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
16. No, not short term solutions
There is no short term solution. Riding a bike isn't even a short term solution, unless it's the start of you riding a bike even if gas is 10 cents a gallon.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
18. Walking more, carpooling, busses, et al
Biking too. For those who can.
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