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Did you know oil companies get our oil for NOTHING???? NO royalties owed.

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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 01:45 PM
Original message
Did you know oil companies get our oil for NOTHING???? NO royalties owed.
Neither did I, but it was discussed during hearing this am of the oil companies.

Companies drill in our waters and pay zip for the privilege.

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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wait, what? I thought somewhere around 30-50% went to the states off....
...whose coast the oil was sucked from.

If what you heard is true we need to get some ships out in the ocean, make war against and take over the water and starting charging admission.

PB
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. The companies owe 50 billion according to Congress
They just don't pay.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Jeez, I knew they got incentives but I thought the U.S. still got royalties...
Wasn't that a division of the MSS that's supposed to be separated from other duties?
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. thats just not true. nt.
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
29. Congressfolks said so on C-Span today
I also heard it.
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. he was wrong. this is simple stuff you can google. nt.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
4. Sure about that?
Sounds a tad unbelievable...but you know. These days....


What about Canada and Norway...do they get a cut of drilling revenues?
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I'm pretty sure Norway does
just another example of how business suffers when a socialist government is interfering with free enterprise :sarcasm:
I believe Norway also has some pretty tough rules regarding safety of the rigs.

All that government interference yet the private oil companies still think it's worth it to drill in Norwegian waters. I wonder why it can't work that way here. :shrug:

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ParkieDem Donating Member (417 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Just to play devil's advocate ....
... some would argue that the only reason Norway can afford its socialist welfare state is due to oil royalties. I don't buy it -- without those royalties, they would probably have higher taxes, but they'd still have their welfare state.

Just about every country with oil reserves charges royalties. In most countries, the state owns the resources, so it's up to the state to manage how it's done.

In some places (like Mexico and I think Brazil), a private company cannot extract resources unless it teams up with the state-owned company. Pemex is the worst about this, and it has plundered its resources so that it is damn near unable to get any more oil out of the ground there, but it won't accept any help. The countries of the Gulf wised up, and have (a) demanded big royalties, and (b) invested those royalties wisely in infrastructure, education, etc. Countries in Africa (Nigeria, Angola) not so much.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Norway has a "welfare state"?
News to me. Everyone must be sitting around, drinking 40s, collecting their check, yo dig?
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. "Welfare state" or
"we" society?
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. I thought it was a state by state thing
I don't know enough about this topic though. I guess it's time I start researching...
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howaboutme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. It happens all over the world
The plunderers of our natural resources normally pay little in royalties, with little of that going to the benefit of the populace. Most of the royalties find their way to the political elite --- whether it be the USA, nations of Africa, South America or Russia. The miners and drillers are corporations that get to plunder and destroy the people's land just because they employ workers and give kickbacks to politicians. One of the big exceptions is Norway.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
8. I believe the deep water rigs are in Federal, not state, waters.
That may make a huge difference. I can just see * and Cheney giving away the leases without royalties. It would make perfect sense. They can get their personal royalties now that they're out of office.
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ellenfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
9. i seem to remember that royalties were discontinued.
also, aren't the leases with the states not the fed(?) since the oil companies get subsidies, don't we, the taxpayer, essentially pay for the leases and royalties?

ellen fl
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Winterblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
10. If that were true Alaska would be in Dire Straits instead of sitting on a surplus.
Just is not factual....
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. They pay for leases. Works out to about 10% to 15% of value of oil.
Not enough but it is misleading to say we get "nothing".

We don't get a per barrel royalty but govt collects leases up front.

I have been saying for long time we should move to a "contractor model" that most ME nations use.

The company (BP, Shell, Exxon, etc) bid against each other on a contract for extraction cost. Govt awards the contract. The oil company is paid a flat price per barrel to cover their cost and profit, as oil rises govt collects all the difference. Essentially the oil company is just a contractor for the taxpayers.

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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. If someone gave me 10 cents on the dollar, I'd say it was "nothing"
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Well it wouldn't be.
I agree the lease/royalty model is broken but saying the headline is misleading.
Oil leases add up to hundreds of billions of dollars. 10% of trillion dollar industry is still a lot.

That being said the % should change. I think global average is about 80%. Nigeria for example taxes extracted oil at 97%.

It shows why oil companies love doing business in the US.
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Only to a bean counter
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I think $160 billion is real money to anyone even non-bean counters.
Edited on Tue Jun-15-10 02:54 PM by Statistical
I mean if the govt wastes $160 billion it is real money but if the govt collect $160 billion it isn't real money?

If Obama ended all leases and raised taxes on the middle class by $160 billion would it then be real money?
That about $1800 per worker making above median salary.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. How about we nationalize the fuckers? Then it'd be $1.6 Trillion.
What? That'd be about $18,000 kicked to every working family.

We could use it in Detroit and in Cleveland and in Chicago and in St. Louis and in Indianapolis and in Iowa City and in ... Bean counters get the picture.
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Hosnon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. 10 cents on the dollar isn't bad for an entity that is similar to a silent partner.
And 10% return isn't that bad in any context...
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bpj62 Donating Member (140 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. Royalties
The Department of the Interior collects the royalties on all offshore drilling. The royalty is based on the amount of barrels that is pumped out of the well. I doubt that the states get a cut since the deepwater wells are mostly located in the federally protected economic zone which extends 200 miles from our shores.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Yep.
I have seen it mentioned that the U.S. gets about 20% of the royalties. I sort of doubt that in that others have said the contracts (on public lands - wet or dry) are for 12.5% of sold oil. The old standard 1/8th interest that has been in place for land/mineral rights owners from the beginning of time only applies to our stupid government. Those dumb private land owners (farmers/ranchers) are negotiating a much higher percentage of royalties.
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ParkieDem Donating Member (417 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
13. I have no idea where you got your information.
The states technically "own" the area that is three miles out. They can determine the royalties for leasing these waters. In theory, a state could give a lease for free, but I don't see why they would.

The federal government "owns" the area from three miles to 200 miles out (the "Exclusive Economic Zone"). Current federal royalties are 18.75% regardless of depth. The federal government has taken in about $160 billion, give or take, in oil and gas royalties since offshore drilling began back in the 1950s.

The United States and Canada are unique in the sense that, with respect to private land, the minerals are owned by the private landowner (unless the minerals have been severed). In all other countries, all minerals below the surface of the land are owned by the sovereign.
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. I got the information as a quote of one of the Congressmen
who was questioning the oil Execs this am at the hearing.
He said something to the effect that not only did the oil companies get the oil for free, not paying anything, but that they also get subsidies.

As I said, I don't personally know what the current rules are, but he said it, on the record.
No one corrected him or disagreed with him.
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. Well he is wrong. nt.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
15. Yes. And we like it that way.
Why do you hate America?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
24. I thought they got subsidies for drilling.
;-)
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
25. I've been wondering about this and did some searching...found this:
Edited on Tue Jun-15-10 03:42 PM by City Lights
US lawmaker goes after oil firms in royalty dispute
Thu Apr 8, 2010 5:06pm EDT

* Government may lose $53 billion in oil, gas royalties

* Energy firms may not get access to new drilling areas

* Companies may be hit with special surcharge in dispute

By Tom Doggett

WASHINGTON, April 8 (Reuters) - A U.S. lawmaker wants to make oil companies that he says owe the government billions of dollars in past royalty fees pay up if they want to explore for oil or natural gas in new offshore areas.

Democratic Representative Edward Markey plans to introduce legislation next week requiring oil companies to pay the disputed royalties or be charged a special fee for drilling in Atlantic waters from Delaware to central Florida, as well as the eastern Gulf of Mexico, that the Obama administration recently opened for new energy development.

"If oil companies want to access these newly opened areas, my legislation would ensure that the American taxpayers get the money they are rightfully owed," said Markey, who is chairman of the House Committee on Energy Independence and Global Warming. "It is time to put an end to Big Oil playing Uncle Sam for Uncle Sucker," he added.

<snip>

The dispute centers on faulty leases that were issued to energy companies in the 1990s, when oil prices fell to $10 a barrel. To make drilling in the deeper waters of the Gulf of Mexico more economically feasible, royalties were waived on initial oil and natural gas production.

However, the government forgot to include language in the leases that would end the royalty relief if oil and gas prices shot up to high levels, which they did.


The companies still refused to pay past royalties because they said the leases were valid contracts that could not be broken, even if the government made an honest mistake.

"Sending the signal now that America changes its rules mid-game would discourage investment and potentially cost jobs," said Cathy Landry, spokeswoman for the American Petroleum Institute.

She also said the leases were not free, pointing out that energy companies paid the government $4 billion to obtain the leases, $37 billion to develop them and billions more in taxes related to production.

Anadarko Petroleum Corp (APC.N) has led the legal challenge against the government over the royalty dispute.

The Supreme Court last October ruled in the company's favor, a decision that is expected to cost the government $53 billion over the next 25 years in lost royalties from energy companies.

more... http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN0820402820100408


I'm curious to know how other countries handle this.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Some of them nationalize the fucking oil companies....others just let them
increase the bribes to the politicians.


mark
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-10 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
33. Obama dropped offshore tax on big Oil:
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