Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

"Total bleedout"

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:19 AM
Original message
"Total bleedout"
Edited on Mon Jun-21-10 08:25 AM by Nuclear Unicorn
I just want to cry:

All the actions and few tid bits of information all lead to one inescapable conclusion. The well pipes below the sea floor are broken and leaking. Now you have some real data of how BP's actions are evidence of that, as well as some murky statement from "BP officials" confirming the same.

I took some time to go into a bit of detail concerning the failure of Top Kill because this was a significant event. To those of us outside the real inside loop, yet still fairly knowledgeable, it was a major confirmation of what many feared. That the system below the sea floor has serious failures of varying magnitude in the complicated chain, and it is breaking down and it will continue to.

What does this mean?

It means they will never cap the gusher after the wellhead. They cannot...the more they try and restrict the oil gushing out the bop?...the more it will transfer to the leaks below. Just like a leaky garden hose with a nozzle on it. When you open up the nozzle?...it doesn't leak so bad, you close the nozzle?...it leaks real bad,
same dynamics. It is why they sawed the riser off...or tried to anyway...but they clipped it off, to relieve pressure on the leaks "down hole". I'm sure there was a bit of panic time after they crimp/pinched off the large riser pipe and the Diamond wire saw got stuck and failed...because that crimp diverted pressure and flow to the rupture down below.

Contrary to what most of us would think as logical to stop the oil mess, actually opening up the gushing well and making it gush more became direction BP took after confirming that there was a leak. In fact if you note their actions, that should become clear. They have shifted from stopping or restricting the gusher to opening it up and catching it. This only makes sense if they want to relieve pressure at the leak hidden down below the seabed.....and that sort of leak is one of the most dangerous and potentially damaging kind of leak there could be. It is also inaccessible which compounds our problems. There is no way to stop that leak from above, all they can do is relieve the pressure on it and the only way to do that right now is to open up the nozzle above and gush more oil into the gulf and hopefully catch it, which they have done, they just neglected to tell us why, gee thanks.

...

Well...none of what is likely to happen is good, in fact...it's about as bad as it gets. I am convinced the erosion and compromising of the entire system is accelerating and attacking more key structural areas of the well, the blow out preventer and surrounding strata holding it all up and together. This is evidenced by the tilt of the blow out preventer and the erosion which has exposed the well head connection. What eventually will happen is that the blow out preventer will literally tip over if they do not run supports to it as the currents push on it. I suspect they will run those supports as cables tied to anchors very soon, if they don't, they are inviting disaster that much sooner.

Eventually even that will be futile as the well casings cannot support the weight of the massive system above with out the cement bond to the earth and that bond is being eroded away. When enough is eroded away the casings will buckle and the BOP will collapse the well. If and when you begin to see oil and gas coming up around the well area from under the BOP? or the area around the well head connection and casing sinking more and more rapidly? ...it won't be too long after that the entire system fails. BP must be aware of this, they are mapping the sea floor sonically and that is not a mere exercise. Our Gov't must be well aware too, they just are not telling us.

...

Over the next 2 months the mechanical situation also cannot improve, it can only get worse, getting better is an impossibility. While they may make some gains on collecting the leaked oil, the structural situation cannot heal itself. It will continue to erode and flow out more oil and eventually the inevitable collapse which cannot be stopped will happen. It is only a simple matter of who can "get there first"...us or the well.


If they don't allow the well to spew wide open until the relief wells a drilled then the entire wel could spew outward and become unstoppable. But even then if the already crippled ad tipping blow-out-preventer topples over it will destroy the well beyond any hope, even relief wells.

In short, we're looking at the possibility that the oil won't stop flowing until the formation is exhausted of oil.

How much oil is in that formation?

2 BILLION barrels

--or--

84 billion gallons

LINK from an industry insider page: http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6593/648967

OK, I lied...I am crying.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
1. I think you meant 84 billion (with a b) gallons. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I did, and I corrected IAW your note
thank-you...though nothing personal it hardly makes me feel better.

I'm just sick at the thought.

Apparently there was a Mexican spill a long time ago that is the worse spill on record with 150 million gallons.

84 billion would be equal to 560 of those.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PJPhreak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
20. Ixtox nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. the casing (the pipeline heading under the floor
of the ocean) was shattered in the explosion. That is why they are digging so deep under the surface to try to reach good pipeline.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
4. God.
No words.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
5. dougr is not an industry insider...
even though he posts at oildrum.

He's SHR, a poster at godlikeproduction, a conspiracy theory site which speculates on UFOs, crop circles and other idiocy.

But his nonsense about the oil spill has gone far and wide across the tubes, because it's apparently what the doom and gloomers want to hear.

Sid
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Well, I'm sure you will be able to come up with a lot of posts from the Oil Drum
Showing how dougr is totally wrong in every detail of everything he says.. :eyes:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. He doesn't have to
It's on dougr to prove the points he's trying to make, instead of just stating them. Otherwise I could claim that you rape babies and eat their brains, and that constitutes proof that you rape babies and eat their brains.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. dougr doesn't have access to the inside information..
And those who do have access are either not talking or lying, remember the volume of the leak was only 5,000 barrels per day back in April, now it is apparently more than ten times that.

I've been online long enough to know that if the points dougr is making were total bullshit there would be a multitude of posts pointing out every single flaw in them..

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Which means that dougr still has to prove points
As you said, he doesn't have access to inside information. So why assume that what he says is right? Just because there's not multiple posts disproving what he says, doesn't actually prove what he says. It's been my experience in my long time online that people more often than not won't call bullshit on bullshit, but only on things they disagree with because of preconceived notions. Otherwise we never would have invaded Iraq.

We know BP has been lying about the situation. That doesn't mean that anyone who accuses BP of every single thing they can think of is telling the truth. He still has to back up his claims, or else they are just that - claims.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. I guess we'll see, eh?
I'm not saying dougr is correct, I'm saying that if he was blatantly incorrect there would be a lot of people pointing out the details of exactly how and where he was incorrect.

Here on DU there were a ton of posts pointing out the folly of going into Iraq and the bogosity of the claims about WMDs there.

Calling out bullshit on technical subjects is utterly rampant online, I'm on enough technical forums to see examples multiple times every day, post utter bullshit about a technical subject on a busy forum devoted to that subject and you are going to get shot down in flames with extreme prejudice.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Yes, we'll see indeed
Edited on Mon Jun-21-10 09:29 AM by EstimatedProphet
If dougr is right, then we're doomed, period. But, on DU there were a number of posts pointing out how wrong we were to go into Iraq - and not in many other places. Not for a long time. There are also any number of posts that are crazy conspiracy theories all over the net, and they always seem to get credence. It happens enough times that I am not going to automatically accept someone making claims, especially after it is pointed out that those claims originate from a conspiracy site, without backing them up.

On edit: a brief overlook of the oil drum site shows people are engaged in shooting down dougr's posts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-10 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #6
23. A really good post about dougr was made in a Kos diary...
here:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/6/24/878834/-Fishgrease:-Booming-The-Bullsh

Even the admins at TOD don't think dougr has any credibility.

Sid
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vandenbroek Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
19. SHR's weird rep
When you search around the tubes, you'll find a few accusations that SHR is a CIA operative (aren't we all?). But one thing I found really interesting is this:

http://video.godlikeproductions.com/video/SHR_Talks_about_the_oil_spill_in_GLP_VC_05232010?id=253d27cec43127089bc

It's a long conference call with SHR and some others discussing the BP issue. Enjoy!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PJPhreak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
21. Dougr is an Idiot...
The folks over at The Oil Drum think he is using this disaster to be a selfpromoting Troll.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
7. This is once again the poster called dougr.
Another note that says the guy is nuts from the oildrum:

Godlike Productions, with the author listed there as SHR. However, SHR could be Dougr and either could be James Carville after a heavy absinthe session. They're just nicknames. The latest piece to start going viral is a document that shows that BP's worst case estimate if everything goes bad, as in BOP and wellhead being removed, is 100k bbl. Being breathlessly reported widely as could be leaking 100k bbl now.

2 billion barrels. Undersea lakes of oil. Exploding methane bubbles, the size of a small moon. But somehow still there even though the sea floor has collapsed. Cracks in the sea floor 5 miles from the well. Drilled with no casing to save money. Rocks with holes. Seeping cracks in the sea floor under an ROV's feet. 40000 psi. Weird periscope sighted off a Florida beach. It's no wonder people want to nuke it.

Tomorrow's a new day. Maybe the list will get longer.
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6630#comments_top

godlikeproductions is a conspiracy site.....not fact oriented.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. OK, I'm totally unfamiliar with dougr, godlike etc
And I am NOT doubting your integrity as a poster.

But can we say with certainty that:

--the bore has not been compromised

--if we plug or pinch the casing there won't be leakage into the surrounding area that makes its way to the surface

--if the BOP topples it won't destroy the well causing a total bleed out

--a bleed-out won't result in billion of gallons spilled

--we aren't in a race to stop a total bleed-out


What if he's the stopped clock and its his time to be right?

If you have evidence to show a total bleed-out scenario is improbable if not impossible I will be very, very, very happy to be wrong.

Please, show me this is wrong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. All I have to go by is what the industry workers say,
and it's not what dougr is putting out there. Notice workers, not BP owners etc. Worst case scenario makes the dougr group tick.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Do a girl a favor and post some links
srsly

I would genuinely appreciate a little good news.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. Is there any really good news?
They say they're capturing and now burning off more oil, that's good.


The oil still gushes out of the cap....but no floor leaks are apparent, which is good in a way.


Go read at the oil drum, it's mostly good info, and they address the oddball stuff with facts....and sometimes say they just don't know. I put a lot more interest into what they have to say next to the MSM who are trolling along with some fact and much innuendo.

http://theoildrum.com/

This is from yesterday, and shows how they are working to capture more oil before the relief wells are done:

http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_uk_english/incident_response/STAGING/local_assets/downloads_pdfs/Technical_briefing_061810.pdf

They aren't just doing nothing...contrary to MSM opinions. But it's not done, not close to being done. The fishing and wildlife continue to suffer, the marshes and the beaches continue to be oiled. The thing is a gigantic mess, no one in their right mind would deny that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-25-10 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #12
24. Good KOS diary here:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
End Of The Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. I think it's improbable.
The "bottom kill" scheduled for August has a really good chance for succcess. It's not easy, and it may take several tries, but everything I've read indicates we should be optimistic about this. It should stop the leak (or at least drastically slow it) at the bottom regardless of damage to the structure above.

Meanwhile, BP is managing to capture some of the leaking oil. I haven't been able to find a reliable report of exactly how much they're capturing, and I certainly don't trust their estimates, I just want to point out that something is being done to mitigate the damage while we wait for the bottom kill. I AM NOT DEFENDING BP IN ANY WAY. THEY ARE ASSHOLES AND THEY CAUSED THIS MESS. But the oil capturing taking place isn't getting much attention.

They seem to be monitoring the tilt of the BOP. I think I read that it could be anchored or stabilized if needed. Right now I wouldn't worry about it falling over.

There are still some things I can't figure out, though. Like why we're not doing more to protect the coast while we sit and wait for the relief wells to be completed. IMO, more could and should be done.

There is alot of crazy stuff being posted on the net, and I think a "total bleedout" is one of them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
14. spend some time over there reading a little more
it is a good site, but that is far from the general consensus from people that actually work in the industry (this guy apparently does not)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PJPhreak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
22. I have been reading "The Oil Drum" fourm postings since Apr 23,...
Simply put,If one wants to find out the "Real" facts on anything related to The BP Mess,Peak Oil,Frac Drilling or a maydrid of other Oil related subjects...GO THERE!

look for posts and threads by Gail the Actuary,Heading Out,Rockman and half a dozen others.

Oh,and get ready for a real "Edumacation" ...I haven't worked my brian this hard since I was living on Ramen and sleeping face down in a textbook,These Folk Really Know Their Shit!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon May 06th 2024, 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC