HOLY CRAP! MSNBC BREAKING: Well they've found their Gulf of Tonkin...

MSNBC now reporting that the Pentagon believes the recent attack on American soldiers, in which they were taken from their base and executed, is an operation by Iran.

is an attack on our troops by Iran.

The enemy of our enemy is not our friend.

Get a clue!

If our government is making accusations against another, they must provide hard evidence.

Im not going to write it off, but I need to see proof, of course.

But let there be no doubt -- Iran is supporting the Shiites in Iran.

but of course, I think we ought to really be worried about people who magically get all the equipment they need to get into a base, and also speak English.

the Pentagon is saying that Iraqis aren't smart enough to pull off such a stunt, but the Iranians are?

Cuz that's what it comes down to. I think there are Iraqis that speak English and can get a hold of black suvs.

This is like every other imperialist counter-insurgency in a country that's united against the foreign invaders. The US-backed forces are selling or giving the US uniforms and arms to the insurgents. Because the US-backed forces are a joke held together by money and the insurgents are the real thing. Happened in Vietnam. Happened in El Salvador. Happening in Iraq.

We, the American public, will never see that proof.

So, how can you say for sure that Iran is behind this?

:eyes:

And we all know how that turned out....

So then why would they be attacking a Shiite festival?

Sheesh, there's suckers born every minute.

That's important to remember.

"But let there be no doubt -- Iran is supporting the Shiites in Iran."

Well there is not doubt about that. I'll assume you meeant Iran is supporting the shiites in Iraq. Yes they are. So are we. The current official government is dominated by the two largest shia political parties. Those parties each have their own militias, and the largest of them is very much aligned with the theocratic rulers of Iran. The insurgency, on the other hand, is almost entirely composed of sunni militias. The sunnis have no stake in the official government and it is very unlikely that they are receiving any direct support from the shiite theocracy in Iran.

What exactly would Iran gain from provoking us into attacking them? What is their motive? Why would they want to provide a justification for the war that by many accounts the Bush administration is just itching to get going?

Shi'ite death squads disguised as legitimate police, courtesy of Uncle Sam.

But that is underplayed bec the BFEE is friends with SA. Go figure.

And who are you supporting? The foreigners who bombed and invaded the country, killing hundreds of thousands of civilians and poisoning the landscape?

If Iran committed an act of war against the US, then I think Bush gets to decide unilaterally to go to war with Iran. Someone please confirm or deny.

would that be reason to start another war?

The truth is just not in them..

:eyes:

What? You want to see the pictures? Sorry, that's classified. Why do you hate America?

Phony intel is still
a workable casus belli
for a Warmonkey...



Though it's not as effective
as murder for enraging the people.

and I'll tell you how I know it isn't true. It's too convenient. Just like Saddams WMD's and ties to Al-Qeada. I never bought into their crap before and I've been right every single time. Why the hell would I change my mind now?

Have you been asleep for the past year????

when attempting to assess the reports of everything-as far too many of our forces and military families have learned first hand.


"Reality vs Perception Management: The Tinfoil Controversy" from 1-6-2006
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x71919

... plus the fact that it supports the actions they already want, are two strikes against it in my eyes.

Georgie boy is going to have his WWIII whether we want it or not.

Goddamnit I am so angry.

we got to get this man out.

Get out of my brain!

BS. Don't buy the rhetoric

Republican guard!!!! OMFG!!! :grr:

They are so predictable!

We're fucked.

Everybody ready for WW3?

And I've been practicing bending over and kissing my ass good bye for months...
BHN:scared: :hide: :cry: :nuke:

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

I'm just plain --> :scared:

How did those guys get the uniforms and SUVs?

God Public, don't buy it this time!

Bush, Cheney and Haliburton MUST BE STOPPED!

:snore: :yawn: :boring:

I guess it's no surprise Bushco would come up with something similar.

I feel ill.

by those on capital hill.

are madmen.

That thumping sound you hear in the distance are the war drums. Here we go again!

And it won't be a problem.

....USS Liberty, for example.

Let's face it, John. Mossad has done some dirty awful shit over the years, just like the CIA has. Neither is above black ops if it suits their interests. Just ask JFK. Or Yitzhak Rabin.

Why are they not looking at the Mercenaries in Iraq? Now that would be an inside job.

U.S. ex-general he had on said the raiders came in "Blackwater" SUV type vehicles. I was curious if instead of uniforms they were wearing the garb the Blackwater mercenaries wear. He didn't say but O' Reilly said U.S. uniforms, and you know I don't believe O' Reilly knows shit on this. I think this part of the story really hasn't been adequately covered.

I wouldn't put it past Erik Prince's private army to do this for Bush - after all it will only add more $$$$$ to Prince's coffers.

Will America believe them now?

and Congress MUST be involved

SCOTUS changed all that in 2000.

}(

And the War Powers Resolution of 1973 has not yet gone through a court test. The criminal cabal will ignore its requirement for seeking new authority to attack Iran by claiming that they already have that authority via the IWR of 2003. From this angle, they need only advise Congress on a timely basis that the Iraq War has expanded into Iran. Congress could of course challenge this in court, but the court is stacked in favor of the cabal and they will lose that challenge.

Let's seee...

Bush gets 60 days deployment free of any interference.

Then he has to make a report of some kind to congress.

BFD.

In 60 days, Caligula jr. can have our armed forces wedged so far up Iran's ass it would take a violation of the Geneva conventions to extract them in the absence of a stable domestic government. Never mind that we'd pretty much have to abandon Iraq to do this, it's been their exit strategy all along as far as I could tell.

The WPA is not exactly what we call hard oversight, and it's one reason I was so freaking pissed off that so many Dems went along with the 2003 IWR in the first place -- in for a penny in for a pound, as the saying goes. Now we're stuck with the entire region on the honey-do list.

Not that the WPA is worse than nothing at all, mind you -- I think it was a decent start, for 1973. It has serious problems though, it hasn't been updated since then, nor has its constitutionality been confirmed by the judicial system, and presidents from Nixon on have basically ignored it whenever they felt they could get away with doing so.

W is not going to hold such a statute in high regard, now that he doesn't have the rubber-stamp congress.

that lets the President respond when US troops are under iminent attack.

True or not... this smells like blood... these are trying times we are living in... let's all hope for the best, but... I don't feel there is much reason to be optimistic.

"Gulf Of Tonkin". It's so obvious.

and even if we do, they may still rule the day. as we found out in iraq- when you invade another country, you end up fighting the citizenry as well as the army.

using nukes would further cement us as a world pariah for decades to come...if we're lucky.

the Sarin Nerve Gas Corps, or was it the Anthrax Squad.

The Bush Cabal is cranking up the Rhetoric Machine to Shock and Awe Levels. Congress cannot sit on its hands and let this happen.

WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO TO STOP THIS LUNATIC FROM STARTING YET ANOTHER WAR?

mostly by the fact that there were all of 15 counter-demonstrators compared to a HUGE crowd of anti-war activists. I think this disparity reflects the true state of the country.

That said, I think it will take thousands of people in the streets for days and weeks. Nonstop. Surrounding the white house. surrounding the capitol. Basically shutting down DC.

It will mean people leaving their jobs (vacation, leave of absence, leave without pay, etc..)to occupy DC.

It will mean a support network for food and shelter.

It will mean being willing to be arrested/beaten/gassed or heat-rayed (by the spanking new Active Denial System http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2007/01/25/heat-ray.html)

It will mean thousands of people getting out of their comfort zones.

they know what kind of maniac we have in office, no one will help us no one, we are on our own.

Another SECRET! :eyes:

"What's My Line?" Remember that show?

If it's a secret it must be true! :eyes: Gives them more credence and also gives them a chance to blame MSNBC for leaking secret documents.

Quite frankly, I don't believe a damn word of this.

The only people stoopid enough to believe this poop

have 2 warships moved to Iran in case this sort of thing ever happened.

:sarcasm:

We gotta nip this in the bud before it gets nasty.

:grr:

so that we can debunk it before it has a chance to do its dirty work. MSNBC has been the official "You will invade Iran over our dead bodies" network since January 2005 when Sy Hersch broke the first story about the administration's plan to march from Iraq to Iran. It is MSNBC's reason for being. They helped elect the Democratic Congress because they are so fed up with Bush's Wars and the high price of oil (which hurts manufacturing at GE way more than increased military spending helps GE) Plus, they got really hopping boiling mad over the WH's attacks on Newsweek over the Koran in the Toilet story in the spring of 2005. After what happened to 60 Minutes and Dan Rather, they knew they had to fight back, so they did, with everything they have.

or Thatchers, for the women congressmen. They have the power of the purse; it's high time to use it. Cut off funding, bring the troops home, and open up diplomatic relations with Iran and Syria.

in an interview on the Lehrer News Report, PBS - as a next possible step if the non binding resolution doesn't have any affect!!! My jaw dropped and we can hope that Congress has the power to stop any Iran action. AIPAC must be celebrating tonight.

Neocons have talked about war with Iran for at least two years now. these news bursts from the pentagon are crap made3 to support a plan in existence for years.

"My daddy is a very powerful person, and when he finds out you've been kidnapping US soldiers, he'll have you fired! Yes! Fired! Bombs away! Kick their asses!"

--Brad W. Pitt

...whether or not Iran was actually behind it, this will be an excuse to attack Iran.

Just a suppose - Tit-for-Tat. I'm not buying in - but just a thought. Something I found through Google from Robert Baer whom I respect.

http://www.aina.org/news/20070130150239.htm

I've written here before that the IRGC has a long history of calculated violence against its enemies, particularly the United States. The Administration's accusations are plausible. But at the same time the U.S. needs to remember what a serious spoiler the IRGC can be when provoked.

In July 1982, after a Christian Lebanese militia kidnapped the Iranian charge d'affaires in Beirut, the IRGC set in motion a campaign of retaliatory kidnappings, hijackings and assassinations against the U.S. and the West. The Iranian charge was a senior IRGC officer, and the IRGC had no intention of letting his kidnapping go unanswered. The IRGC campaign lasted for more than 10 years and dragged the U.S. into Iran-contra and the arms-for-hostages deal that nearly brought down the Reagan Administration.

Some Iraqis speculate that the IRGC has already started a campaign of revenge with the killing of five American soldiers in Karbala on Jan. 20, nine days after the arrest of the IRGC members in Erbil. As the logic of the rumor goes, five American soldiers were killed for five Iranians taken; Karbala was an IRGC message to release its colleagues -- or else.

The speculation that Karbala was an IRGC operation may have as much to do with Iraqis' respect for IRGC capacity for revenge as it does with the truth. Nevertheless, we should count on the IRGC gearing up for a fight. And we shouldn't underestimate its capacities. Aside from arming the opposition, the IRGC is capable of doing serious damage to our logistics lines. I called up an American contractor in Baghdad who runs convoys from Kuwait every day and asked him just how much damage."Let me put it this way,"he said."In Basra today the currency is the Iranian toman, not the Iraqi dinar."He said his convoys now are forced to pay a 40% surcharge to Shi'a militias and Iraqi police in the south, many of whom are affiliated with IRGC.

Mindful of the spreading chaos in Iraq, President Bush has promised not to take the war into Iran. But it won't matter to the IRGC. There is nothing the IRGC likes better than to fight a proxy war in another country.

New type of IED comes via Iran, say U.S. officials
Updated 1/30/2007 9:59 PM
By Tom Vanden Brook, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — A sophisticated type of roadside bomb that U.S. officials have linked to Iran has been used increasingly against U.S. troops in Iraq ... http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2007-01-30-ied-iran_x.htm

Iran May Have Trained Attackers That Killed 5 American Soldiers, U.S. and Iraqis Say
By JAMES GLANZ and MARK MAZZETTI
Published: January 31, 2007
Investigators believe that a tightly coordinated operation that killed five Americans on Jan. 20 may have been trained and financed by Iranian agents ... http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/31/world/middleeast/31karbala.html&OQ=_rQ3D1Q26refQ3Dworld&OP=74fabca7Q2FQ2AuQ60iQ2AAkTBekkQ5CMQ2AMKKQ7DQ2AKlQ2AQ3DlQ2AukefAQ2AQ7CFAAfQ60Q60jBQ5CQ2AQ3DlNjeijfjQ22LQ5CQ7Cf

Europeans Fear U.S. Attack On Iran As Nuclear Impasse Intensifies
January 31, 2007, 29 minutes and 26 seconds ago.
By (AND) - www.andnetwork.com
Senior European policy-makers are increasingly worried that the Bush Administration will resort to air strikes against Iran to try to destroy its suspect nuclear program. As transatlantic friction over how to deal with the Iranian impasse intensifies, there are fears in European capitals that the nuclear crisis could come to a head this year because of U.S. frustration with Russian stalling tactics at the United Nations Security Council. "The clock is ticking," said one European official. "Military action has come back on to the table more seriously than before. The language in the U.S. has changed." As the Americans continue their biggest naval build-up in the Gulf since the start of the Iraq war four years ago, a transatlantic rift is opening up on several important aspects of the Iran dispute. The Bush administration will shortly publish a dossier of charges of alleged Iranian subversion in Iraq. "Iran has steadily ramped up its activity in Iraq in the last three to four months. This applies to the scope and pace of their operations. You could call these brazen activities," a senior U.S. official said in London Tuesday ...
http://www.andnetwork.com/index?service=direct/0/Home/recent.fullStory&sp=l167407

Bush Nominee: New Actions Needed in Iraq
Wednesday January 31, 2007 12:31 AM
By ROBERT BURNS
AP Military Writer
... Negroponte said Syria is letting 40 to 75 foreign fighters cross its border into Iraq each month, and he repeated the charge that Iran is providing lethal help to insurgents fighting U.S. forces in Iraq. He gave only mild endorsement to the administration's diplomatic hands-off policy toward Damascus and Tehran ...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6382210,00.html

Officials: White House Holding Back Report Detailing Iran's Meddling in Iraq
Tuesday, January 30, 2007
WASHINGTON, D.C. — A plan by the Bush administration to release detailed and possibly damning specific evidence linking the Iranian government to efforts to destabilize Iraq have been put on hold, U.S. officials told FOX News. Officials had said a "dossier" against Iran compiled by the U.S. likely would be made public at a press conference this week in Baghdad, and that the evidence would contain specifics including shipping documents, serial numbers, maps and other evidence which officials say would irrefutably link Iran to weapons shipments to Iraq. Now, U.S. military officials say the decision to go public with the findings has been put on hold for several reasons, including concerns over the reaction from Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad — as well as inevitable follow-up questions that would be raised over what the U.S. should do about it ...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,248791,00.html

Don’t confuse Iran with Cambodia
Dick Morris
... But there is a risk that our struggle against Iran will come to be seen by the American people as a subset of the war in Iraq, a bit like Cambodia was a subset of the War in Vietnam. If challenging Iran comes to symbolize an escalation of the war in Iraq, it will soon lose public support and become tainted with the tar which smears our work in Iraq ...
http://thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/Comment/DickMorris/013107.html

Yes, Iran kidnapped our soldiers!! They drove our soldiers in
mobile-weapons labs that Colin Powell will clearly point out
on a satellite image of the area!! They were able to kidnap
our soldiers because of a decoy blast that came "in the form of a
mushroom cloud". They sped away in their car that was made of
"aluminum tubes".

It MUST be true! The warmongering, lying, scumbag sociopaths
said so!

Too funny!! You are alright!! :applause: :applause:

don't forget that annoying Taco Bell dog- that was totally an Iran job.

by the Iraqis. That's it! Wild a**ed impressions from our NOW corrupt leaders within the Pentagon and the CIA. Remember, Rummy *fixed* the Pentagon and Porter Goss implanted political appointees to staff positions within the CIA. It's all make believe - smoke and mirrors. :(

Four years ago they claimed the Iraqis were sophisticated enough to have a nuclear weapons program that warranted an all-out invasion and now they claim they're not sophisticated enough to dress a few guys up as GIs and have them bluff their way into a compound and take some hostages. Oh, okay, sure, whatever you say. :eyes:

Wait for a major incident to happen in the Straight of Hormuz, or there abouts.

Wolf, wolf, wolf!!

We've heard it too often. If this is the truth, then I make this challenge to Bush to Cheney:

• Resign. Both of you.
• If President Pelosi determines that the Iranians attacked American troops in Iran and says so, then I will believe it.

they must of got their instructions from Bushie, FEAR FEAR, and more FEAR. Control the masses they are getting out of hand. The question is will we be controlled?

:grr:

But here's the thing, imo. I don't think the American public, in the mood it's in now about the disaster in Iraq, is going to be easily led by yet another round of drumbeating and provocative LIES coming from this administration.

What I'm hoping is that this time there will be a massive outcry among our citizens when they smell the same sort of deceptive tactics being used on them as the ones that suckered them into supporting Bu$hCo's invasion of Iraq. This time the Congress won't be so easily prodded into signing away their decision-making job as they were before Iraq, either. I think we can count on both these things.

And some part of me even suspects the media might not cave to the pressure from the WH to help them boost support for another illegal and immoral war, either. Real journalists and investigative reporters do still exist, and they could do a lot of "uncovering" of the deceptions -- enough to alert the public more broadly (and possibly win them some journalism honors to boot).

Therefore I'm thinking Bu$hCo might have sorely underestimated the difficulty they could encounter in garnering support for any attacks on Iran. Everyone learned the last time that they SHOULD have asked a lot more questions before they went along with invasion plans. Many bitterly resent the way they were tricked.

And I think a lot more military folks would be raising red flags about this kind of trickery another time, too -- and refusing to be silenced even if they were forced to resign. No group could have more good reasons to be fiercely opposed to invading Iran than our military!

All together, these factors could raise such a foul stink and a loud, clanging warning sound that there never would be broad support for a U.S. attack on Iran.

The simple fact that these five U.S. troops were killed in Iraq in this latest incident is enough to cause many Americans to say, "Then let's just bring them all HOME from there!" instead of, "Okay, let's invade Iran TOO!"

and DAMN if they aren't needed as soon as they get there...

Think of the odds...

CNN is trying to peddle the story, but it sounds very weak. The administration's argument is that the attack was too sophisticated for plan old terrorists to do. Gimme a break. Al Qaeda managed to blow up the WTC. If they could do that, they could impersonate US troops in Iraq and kidnap some of ours.

Iran has no reason to do something like this. All they have to do is wait, and the American people will force Bush to leave. The players who are desperate are Bush, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Al Qaeda and the various radical factions who need the US in Iraq to help their movements grow. The attack was planned and carried out by one of these.

The story a few days ago was why did the military lie about the attack. Note how they have managed to deflect that story with this cock and bull one.