Not Prosecuting McChrystal is ANOTHER Fatal Mistake...

...in the growing pantheon of Democratic errors of omission. Lets just take three names-Rumsfeld, Cheney, North, or raise it and include all those involved in Iran Contra, October Surprise, and Central American death squads.Each and every one of these bastards skated on easily obtainable felony convictions but were given a pass by the Democratic party that would NEVER have been given by the party of "Impeach the Clintons".

The difference of course is that the GOP learned what the Democrats did not from vampire movies-when you face an opponent you detest it is NEVER over until a stake is driven thru the heart and in politics that stake is a felony conviction.

So heartless bastards who should have died of shame from their past behavior crawl back onto the national stage years later from their unstill graves and wreak havoc again.

And so will McChrystal.

McChrystal talking smack about the President and the rest of those in the administration mentioned was worth a canning, but whether it deserved prosecution; I'm not going that far.

Again, I'm not interested in becoming them,
just like I'm not interested in Pres. Obama
acting so much like a dictator in the way that
Bush often did. Why would we want to become
just like Republicans? What's great about that.

when he is a major player in the GOP. He violated his oath to gain advantage knowing he wouldn't have to pay the proscribed penalty but rather merely resign with his "reputation" intact in GOP circles and he will be back and it IS "our" fault for not finishing him.

Cheney had been chased down and had to face justice decades before he got to the Bush Whitehouses?

it is the Judge Advocate's General, and if they decide there are enough reasons to go through that (and the DOD byzantine politics don't get in the way) then it is up to JAG to do this. This is NOT a civilian decision, just as he was canned by a civilian for making fun of the civilian chain of command.

I know Muricans are truly clueless as to how the military works. And personally I HOPE the JAG does file charges... there is more at stake than just civilian control... good order and discipline comes to mind.

is much more likely to be prosecuted (not too severe given his rank) than getting canned. He is still in the military and could retire with full benefits so stay in. He did lose his post but he'll be reassigned. If he was prosecuted it wouldn't be dictatorship. Would you call it dictatorship if a lower enlisted soldier receives a company grade article 15 for showing up late for PT formation (which is at 6:30 in garrison) a few too many times that consists of 14 days restriction and extra duty. However a General wouldn't be forced to do anything like that if he was prosecuted. I'm about 90% certain NCOs aren't required to do the cleaning portion but generally NCOs that are on extra duty help out with the cleaning to get the job done faster.

not investigating/charging the Bush cabal including the military bigwigs as opposed to recent events. Got it.

McChrystal is still running black sites. :(

At least getting rid of him increases the chances that his covert crimes will end. Maybe those programs will be shut down. He seems to have a real taste for mistreating prisoners.

I certainly hope that is the case. I was disappointed when he was first chosen and felt there were better choices, certainly better choices than the General who covered up the Tilman 'friendly-fire' tragedy.

they knew about this when was picked for Afghanistan.
Beyond torture, people died.

Under the UCMJ....ask any enlisted man what can proceed from a conviction on that charge.

should have been his fate. ...in addition to removal from his current position.
What they chose to do, would have been the fair way to go. He would probably have been let off easily, but he would have at least had to undergo the appropriate process.

It is not the Justice Department of the Obama Administration, right?

under the UCMJ nor does the Justice Department, the military arm is charged with that responsibility and that is appropriate, don't you think?

in his chain of command would initiate the process if we was prosecuted for this. Just guessing but that's how it worked in my level which was far below his when I was in.

On a side note. Only officers can charge enlisted under UCMJ. Enlisted like NCOs can strongly recommend an Article 15(90%+ of charges given to lower enlisted) or any other from the UCMJ to their commanding officer for one of their soldiers.

it is their jurisdiction. McCrystal committed no crime under federal statutes. McCrystal may well have committed crimes under the UCMJ which is the jurisdiction of the military.

UCMJ

Court Martial

with insubordination then? The dissatisfaction is not with the Justice Department of the Obama Administration then I take it?

Failure in leadership, regarding good order and discipline (Translation bad example for those under his command)

Speaking against a superior officer (Several counts on this one)

Conduct unbecoming an officer.

Bringing disgrace to the Army (yes that is a charge)

Insubordination

And of course this is just the top of a laundry list...

Of course they will not, if he were a Major they would... but a General Officer... he is going to ahem retire... and the disgrace of getting relieved will be seen as enough.

and I was wondering what crime he had committed that would allow the Dems to prosecute. I was aware of the UCMJ code of conduct and the questions arising regarding McCrystal's actions but that is separate from the OP's contention the Dems have made a FATAL mistake in not "prosecuting" him.

I wonder if McCrystal had refused to tender his resignation whether the Military would have considered laying charges based on the USMC? I also wonder, given McCrystal had met with Gates et al before his meeting with the President whether it was made clear to him, resign or face the possibility of charges?

that the conversation went something like this.

You have brought disgrace to the force, you &((())^%%**, you have engaged in insubordination.... you resign, retire, there will be no charges. You resist this, and we will throw the UCMJ at you... which means prison time and E-1, with a dishonorable.

As to the OP... there are so many misunderstandings as how the military works... that it don't shock me.

Oh and the expletives... perhaps, and the only reason, why they were not used, was not to ruin the possible prosecution.

From the body language when he left the WH, he looked like a beaten man... so he knew.

Once I heard he had met with Gates et al BEFORE meeting with the President, it was made clear what his options were, resign or else.

he had the letter ready as of last night, rumor has it.

He has a colorful career, and this pirate attitude and problems with authority started at West Point. Why he was an EXCELLENT Special Forces type...

And to a point it is always sad to see a career implode like this. Now in my mind they SHOULD go through the court martial. The only reason why Nobody wants to do that is that in his defense he'd be able to use some pretty deeply classified info... and the court martial, in theory, should be an open court.

Why they will counsel him to just damn retire and go quietly. Perhaps with three stars, one of the talking heads pointed out he's not been a four star long enough, or if they want to do the message and no court martial, send him back to two, and then retire him.

the UCMJ but I am not at all surprised that, to date, that is not going to occur. I am unclear as to whether he has resigned his commission or merely resigned from the current position he was serving in. In listening to the President today when he spoke of McCrystal's 30 years of service, it was in the tone and tenor one uses when the person about whom they are speaking has 'retired' or, in this case, resigned his commission.

as he was relieved of command... JAG can still file charges. He has not been separated yet, and rarely they have brought people back just to try them... mean yes.

But i guess if he gave the resignation he will be watching water lilies for the next four months as they go through the process of separation. From the body language he was a beaten man.

On edit, if JAG decides to go there, it will take about two weeks... the wheels of justice move maddeningly slow, even in the army.

He will, after an initial flurry, fade away as did McArthur, with his his 'legacy' being one of resigning in disgrace.

they will send him packing... perhaps he will also give a speech to the Corp of Cadets that will be fitting of a movie in thirty years...

...the armed services. It is an understatement to call it a strict set of rules. For instance, if an armed service member commits adultery the maximum punishment is a dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances and confinement for 1 year.

Now, there exists no such punishment for citizens of the United States as you know. Only applies to men and women in the armed services. It can be used to terrorise or even victimize members of the armed services as well as bring legitimate rule-breakers to (UCMJ) "justice".

And it covers a shitload of things, way beyond something arguable like adultery. Remember, when we call the President the "Commander in Chief" it's more than just another title. It designates he or she as the commander of all of the armed services. It is very important that civilians control the military in a Democracy. If they don't the military tends to take over either formally or informally.

Anyway, McCrystal committed a very serious infraction. In this case, it was Article 88, which is titled "Contempt Toward Officials". Now the text of Article 88 reads, in part:


That's one of the biggies. After all, when generals start showing contempt for the President's authority, you start getting into a potentially-nightmarish scenario where the will of The People's representative is challenged by those who have the near-full power of the armed services at their disposal. See how that can be a problem?

If you look up McCrystal's name and "Article 88" in a Google search you will see there has been lots of discussion about this. There are almost certainly many other things that could be pinned on him: When you fuck up in the military and they want you fucked, you will be fucked. If he gets off without a court martial, and he might, I think this sets a bad precedent. This was not, for instance, a general under Bush leaking illegal orders to kill innocent people illegally- that sort of thing. This was notsomething designed to protect America and the Uniform. It was, in any other situation, and certainly for anyone of lower rank, a career-ending move at least.

Hope that clears things up a bit.

PB

which is what induced me to ask the question as to what crime had been committed. I am aware of the UCMJ but the OP quite clearly referred to the Dems as making the FATAL mistake as opposed to the military doing so by not charging him under the UCMJ which is quite different than charges being brought forward by the Justice Department which one could, I suppose, blame the Dems for that not happening.

In this case there wasn't any kind of subtext or message or broader statement or implied agreement with the OP in doing so.

:shrug:

PB

my response was more because I could have been more clear as to why I posed the question rather than having any issue with your response. I apologize if my response to you came across otherwise.

Our President is both the top Democrat AND commander in chief And can direct orders to the secretary of defense And the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff And the secretary of the army all of whom could direct the JAG to file.He could have McChrystal charged. The OP was to point out that historically democratic leadership has passed on the prosecution of a large series of federal crimes that could have eliminated the political rebirth of proven men without scruples. M'kay?

and that they, the Dems, had made a FATAL mistake and that is why I questioned your premise. The military arm certainly could have chosen to bring charges but surely you are not saying you feel the President should have demanded they do that or are you saying exactly that?

YEAH!!1!1