An Odd Conversation with a Potential Client

I write web content. It's what I do. So, yesterday, I got a call from a major real estate brokerage house in my large metro area.

After interviewing me on the phone about my qualifications for writing about real estate, and being satisfied that they were adequate, the guy starts talking about having me write a series of blog entries on real estate topics. His plan was to sell these to other brokers and realtors to use on their web sites or blogs.

That's an interesting sort of proposal to me, since I always like having regular work I can count on. I expressed an interest in doing them.

Then, he says, "Well, I was thinking about $10 per article. How does that sound to you?"

I was gobsmacked. He was looking for someone with a lot of experience writing about real estate topics, and asked me a lot of questions about my experience. He was looking for a professional writer to create something he could sell to others.

So, I told him how I felt about $10 per article. I felt insulted. So he asked what I would charge. I told him. Each of those articles would take a couple of hours to research and write, and I'd charge him $50 per article, based on that time. That's actually my minimum hourly rate.

He laughed at me. I wished him luck and hung up.

I have plenty of work, actually, so this wouldn't really hurt my income, but I thought it was interesting, to say the least. I wonder if he'd take $10 for a couple of hours of work.

A guy wants some professionally-written content, but wants to pay chump change for it. Just interesting. It really reflects on the economy and the desperation of so many people right now. It's depressing that people are trying to take advantage of people in this way, it seems to me.

That he's way out of the ballpark!

The person won't be a professional writer, nor will the person have experience writing about real estate topics. He'll get what he pays for. There are plenty of people willing to work for nothing these days.

I'm busy. I have a couple of web designers who keep me busy, at professional rates. They understand the difference between good content and bad content. I just feel really bad for people who are struggling and who are accepting this kind of slave pay for their skills.

More and more people just give their work away, for a byline or photo credit. Just for the exposure. Just look at all the user generated content on line, sites like Flickr, Facebook or even this one all rely on people just giving their ideas away for absolutely nothing.

That's the joke graphic designers make when a cheapskate client tries to talk you into a freebie.

The only thing freebie jobs tend to get you are more freebie jobs.

"Oh, you should call my writer. He works for just about nothing. I can't believe it."

You'll never be able to pull yourself out of that hole.

professionally-written content part. He just things written cheaply or below market.

I started building computer networks in the early eighties. Everybody wanted computer work, but nobody wanted to pay for it back then. I can't tell you the number of people who wanted to pay me minimum wage to set up their small business computers and networks, or worse yet expected me to do it for free!

Uff da! At the height of my magazine-writing career, I got $1 a word on average. Those days are gone, along with the magazines, but this is ridiculous.

And frankly, I think $50 is way too low, too. If it nets *him* a new client, I wonder what that's worth?

I swear, realtors -

We hired one to sell our house, and ended up selling it ourself. We found out that he "didn't do open houses on Sunday, because he had to go to church." SEriously? So WE had one. And guess what? The eventual buyer found our house that day. And THEN, while they were negotiating, our realtor negotiated that we would pay cash in lieu of lowering the house price - to PROTECT HIS OWN commission! GRRRRR!!!

I'm selling myself next time. If there is one.

RANT OFF.

blog articles. Funny.

Anyhow, I won't be able to stay on this thread for awhile. I have to go meet a client to discuss the content for his web site. We've already settled on the price. Now, I have to get to work and give him what he needs to build his business.

I'll be back in a couple of hours.

This person was trying to get something for nothing.

$10 per article? Maybe he could hire an intern?

I do PR consulting and some writing on the side. I charge $50 an hour for writing press releases and articles, and that's cheap!

He's exhibited in galleries and shows in NYC and has an excellent reputation. Most of the work he does has been commissioned by the property owners but sometimes he'll do a Main St. scene or one of a public property and show those in the local gallery. One fellow inquired of the price of one with his uncle in it (permission slip signed) and when he was told it was $1,200 he objected saying, "I can get a painting that size for $40 any day of the week."

People are ignorant and assume that creative types will work (and live) on hope alone. I wonder how many $10/article writers he will pay trying to come up with copy that is publishable before he comes back to you.

As for the guy who called me, he'll probably find someone, who will produce some crap he won't be able to peddle. Then, he'll decide that the whole idea was a bad one and move on to something else. If he came back to me, I'd blow him off instantly, regardless of price.

This work is just to supplement my Social Security check, and I pretty much have plenty of work already. Now, next year, the limit on my earnings goes away, and I'll increase my rates. I'll have a nice portfolio in hand.

What's funny is that there's still well-paying web content work out there. I have a couple of monthly $1/word jobs, writing blog articles for a content reseller. But, there are so many would-be writers and writers out of work that it's possible to get people to write for you for chump change. It's not good writing, and it's not well-researched writing, but it's definitely writing. It's always been that way. People have always been willing to work for a penny a word. You get what you pay for.

I have been known to write my heart out for faint praise, but when I do it's on the subjects I want to explore and the story I want to tell. People are so insensitive. I'd blow him off, too, if he came back. He's probably not smart enough to do that, though. Good luck to you in your retirement but it sounds like you won't need much luck with a nice, juicy portfolio with recent clips in hand. :hi:

:eyes:

I've seen those types everywhere and they make me crazy. I usually direct them to the corner where they're selling velvet Elvis's.

My mom once said, "I don't know anything about art, but I know what I like." I said, "As long as you know you don't know anything, don't say anything because it makes you sound ignorant." It worked with her until she got mad at me, then she'd say dumb things just to irritate. Geez, now I'm nostalgic for Mom...

NOT!!! :rofl:

'Pay the Effing Writer' is at the top of every page.

but of course they never invest in the materials or time to find out if they can do better, they just ASSume they can.

That's something we weavers don't have to face. Even oafs realize we have a significant capital investment in our looms, at the very least, although they still massively underestimate the time we put into something, from planning to setup to execution to finishing. It's why I weave for friends and tell the commercial world to go to hell.

Writers have the additional burden of the oaf who thinks that because he managed to submit a few term papers that weren't returned to him looking like they'd bled to death that he's a competent writer.

You were wise to turn this job down at any price. It's going to be fun to watch him struggle.

"Don't insult yourself."

who wants to pay by the hour for people to talk on their cell phones, take breaks, diddle around?

Something like an article should be paid for as a one time fee for each article. Just as a contractor should be paid by the job, so if they goof off or cannot plan effectively, they bear the cost, not the customer.

$10 per article sounds way low unless you do the ever popular cut and paste and steal from the internet thing lol.

Msongs

On the other hand instead of coming back with a hard number counter offer I would have come up with percentage of blog business deal.

last fall I sold scarves and earrings at a craft fair. I spent a lot of time educating people about the quality of the yarns I use -- "I buy the best yarns I can find, and then use a stitch that makes it look good". I encouraged people to touch the scarves. Most were of nice alpaca or kid mohair or silk or some other high-quality yarn. I can crochet a scarf in a bulky yarn in about two hours. Others, using a finer yarn and more complicated pattern might take thirty hours.

The people who most appreciated my work tended to be others who also did some kind of hand work. I had to gently point out that no, you couldn't get something just like it at WalMart. The two dollar scarf at WalMart is machine made in China by what is essentially slave labor.

In the end, you really do get what you pay for.

And I think that $50.00 for an article he wants to turn around and sell off to others is dirt cheap.

you. We are writing only extra best quality articles. In future, you can be emailing Sally or Mike. They will be writing your excellently good articles.

You are writing very excellently answers to the good questions for best quality. :D

Then wrote him a $10 article.

Buy a house from me today!

There it is. That'll be $10, please.

They figure they got you over a barrel and desperate enough to take it.
Around here they're offering a pay scale that's half of what it was in 2001 for the same qualifications.
Saw an ad here recently where they wanted a certified Level 3 solderer with a minimum of 2 years experience for $8.50/ hr starting. When I worked at Solectron Level 3 were getting closer to $20.

"Do this one at a lower price and I'll catch you up on the next project."

Yeah, like that happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY

I always say to people - "Rappelez-vous, si vous payez avec des cacahuetes, vous obtiendra des singes."

(Remember, if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.)

There are rafts of people who will write these things for $10 an article. I thank you for sticking to your rates and not lowering the standard.

It's been going on for some time.

supplemented that with other businesses, but have had years where I earned over $100K, too, from writing alone. The tech market collapse ended all that for people who wrote about that business, and it hasn't recovered yet.

It's always been very hard to make a living as a freelance writer. Always. It's harder now. There are so many professional writers out of work today that it's very, very difficult right now. About the only thing available is writing web content. That can still be lucrative enough to make a living, but only the very best content writers earn enough to survive.

I've been lucky, and my long experience has made me a very good, multi-disciplinary web content writer, so I can get the rates I'm after. Someone just starting, or trying to convert to that writing field is going to have a very, very hard time.

The old days of going to journalism school and graduating able to earn a living are just flat gone. It's a complete paradigm shift.

lot of editing work, which also pays pretty well. It's just finding and keeping the clients. I don't make enough to support the family, but it is a good supplement and keeps me out of the Man's cube.

In so many ways the computer revolution has had economic effects similar to the industrial revolution. It has cheapened the wages for original creative types. It has made outsourcing viable. It has made people in communities more dissociated from local events.

Yet it enables us to communicate here.

This is an important issue.

The one I can speak to is media creation (graphic art for print, web, video, audio imaging etc.) I did that for 15 years and got to the point where no one even blinked at my rate of 60 bucks per hour. Starting about three years ago, I noticed people starting to expect me to work for ludicrously low fees. Their excuse was "well I could just buy Photoshop and do it myself, but I don't have time."

Yeah. Of course, they had zero talent and creativity, and no practical experience in commercial art, but hey....they gots them a copy of PHO-TO-SHOP! Unreal.

So that's the new reality for much of the art producing crowd. Your would be clients are now suddenly your equals because they buy a desktop creative suite of programs. The funny part? Some of them actually have the audacity to call you up after insulting you with their offers, and wanting you to give them advice on how to make their programs produce miracles for them.

It's just gotten worse with the economy. I grew tired of it and got out of that game (I am now in a different profession) a couple of years ago, and I don't suppose I'm alone.

"You write blog entries for me, say 10 a week. I'll pay you $10 for each. "

Yeah. Right.

He's doing it because some people are taking the bait, unfortunately. :-(

People really don't think unique creativity and years of honing your artistic chops are worth much. They actually think it's just a fun crafty thing to do. They think it's like paying someone to sit around and just have fun.

cheap!

What the heck? And what did he expect to sell your work for to the other brokers?

people want me to do dentistry for literally nothing...that it's an honor to treat them and to have them in the chair...no, these are not working stiffs or so-called economically lower-class individuals: these are people whose family names are inscribed upon buildings, who are worth 9 figures, who are politicians and media 'celebrities'.

Screw' em: I'd trade 20 of these for one normal person.