Ugly Americans

Do you ever wonder what kind of people idolize Limbaugh, Beck, Palin et al?

The kindest explanation I can come up with is that such people are incredibly ignorant. The worst explanation I can think of is that they possess a really ugly mean streak.

Were they abused as children? Do they derive joy from submerging themselves in venom? What drives them? What makes them turn off sympathy, empathy, and their basic humanity?

I’ll be damned if I can understand what drives them. Perhaps there are some sociologists or psychologists here on DU who can explain those who give themselves up to worshiping hate mongers.

So many of their fans are hyper-religious... of course it's the new kind of religion where what Jesus said doesn't really matter, and you can go on and refuse people help because you think they're not worthy of it.

These people are to Christianity what the nineteen hijackers are to Islam.

Their "Christianity" is political in nature. What it really stands for is European descent.

When I ask them how they reconcile their religious views with their political ones, they either look at me like I'm the crazy one, or they get really mad.

Here's their logic:
1. Man is basically evil and full of sin.
2. Once you find Jesus, you are not a perfect person. You are, as the bumper stickers say, a forgiven sinner.
3. Jesus, your Savior, told people to sell everything they have and follow him - and share your meager possessions with your fellow believers - and help the poor.
4. Therefore, any left-wing politician who says the same things is an evil, Socialist, Hitler wanna-be.

Makes perfect sense.

I have yet to meet a Christian, Muslim, Jew etc that is not a pain in the ass.

christians, muslims, jews (SMALL C, SMALL M, SMALL J) who are into the faith and not the religion are generally pretty wonderful open and loving people.

Broad brush I know. But that's my experience.

--Nietzsche

Some of the meanest people I've ever met were very religious. They'd do whatever they wanted, then sit in church on their pious asses and think everything was A-OK. Repeat.

Most people i know who are uber religious, especially in the megachurches, are like that and proud of it. My mom's Catholic church is an exception. Not sure how they do it, but the priest was very vocal against prop 8, urges them to protest the az law, and advocates social justice. My dad is getting angry because he is a Limbaugh fan and can't understand it.

Honestly, i think churches should stay out of politics altogether, but while i am not into church, i at least respect the ones who try to help the helpless.

Many of them live in a very black and white world where either your wrong or your right no gray areas allowed. Since it makes them extremely uncomfortable to be wrong they tend to tune into anything that validates their opinions. Their b&w world also doesn't allow for much critical thinking as it may make them question the validity of their views which is totally unacceptable. Also being in a b&w world requires that the group(s) they belong to (race, religion,etc) must be the groups that are good and correct and therefore whatever those groups say is the truth and the only way things should be (don't try to confuse them with reality to them that doesn't matter).

According to Adorno's theory, the elements of the Authoritarian personality type are:

* Blind allegiance to conventional beliefs about right and wrong
* Respect for submission to acknowledged authority
* Belief in aggression toward those who do not subscribe to conventional thinking, or who are different
* A negative view of people in general - i.e. the belief that people would all lie, cheat or steal if given the opportunity
* A need for strong leadership which displays uncompromising power
* A belief in simple answers and polemics
* Resistance to creative, dangerous ideas. A black and white worldview.
* A tendency to project one's own feelings of inadequacy, rage and fear onto a scapegoated group
* A preoccupation with violence and sex

http://www.psychologistworld.com/influence_personality/authoritarian_personality.php

There's no mystery about most of the "why would anybody" questions.

We have and perpetuate a very sick society, and it is growing more pathological exponentially. The pace is so great now, I think we will see some climax in the next year or two.

"We're good, they're evil" is so much easier than having to actually study an issue and develop your own informed opinion.

We need to frame them like they so effectively do to us. Unfortunately for us all, the right is good at controlling the debate, but the left usually stinks at it. We are Progressives; they are The Backward People.

<http://floydmorr.blogspot.com/2010/04/backward-people.html>

The main reason they can frame the discussion is because they own the main stream media. About all we have going for us is a few people like Olbermann, Rachel, Ed, Bill Maher, and Jon Stewart. It's not nearly enough to battle the vast right-wing echo chamber.

Nonetheless, it doesn't explain why so many millions of people are eager to buy the crap the wingnuts are peddling.

from Wiki...

Right-wing authoritarianism (RWA) is a personality and ideological variable studied in political, social, and personality psychology. It is defined by three attitudinal and behavioral clusters which correlate together:<1><2>

1. Authoritarian submission — a high degree of submissiveness to the authorities who are perceived to be established and legitimate in the society in which one lives.
2. Authoritarian aggression — a general aggressiveness directed against deviants, outgroups, and other people that are perceived to be targets according to established authorities.
3. Conventionalism — a high degree of adherence to the traditions and social norms that are perceived to be endorsed by society and its established authorities, and a belief that others in one's society should also be required to adhere to these norms<3>.

The terminology of authoritarianism, right-wing authoritarianism, and authoritarian personality tend to be used interchangeably by psychologists, though inclusion of the term "personality" may indicate a psychodynamic interpretation consistent with the original formulation of the theory.

Robert Altemeyer wrote a book about his research which addresses your question...The Authoritarians...you can read it free at the link. It answered my questions about who these people are and where they come from.

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

Yours is an important question and one that deserves an answer. If you read the book you'll understand for the first time what we're up against and why it's important. Bob Altemeyer has a good sense of humor as well which makes it an easy read.

He reminds me of Howard Stern... I'm thinking it is all an act with him.

Beck is mentally ill... and I mean that in a very serious and clinical way. It wouldn't surprise me if he just takes a gun to his mouth on air one day.


Palin simply isn't that bright . She is the Peter Principle on steroids.

Perhaps I should TIVO so I don't miss that glorious day.

Rush started out on a local station in Sacramento, CA and when he first got on the air people weren't sure if he was a conservative or possibly a liberal that was parodying the conservatives. When he went national and started receiving the big money he also made sure there was no doubt that he wanted to be perceived as the uber-conservative. On the other hand if you see yourself as an entertainer (I think Rush does) and your audience is the right wing in this country then you feed them what they want. In Rush's case if you look at his family background I think he is a solid conservative but as you point out whether he believes absolutely everything he says will probably always be in question.

but since he lies so much I routinely brush off that apologia. Maybe I should revisit it as possibly being the only true thing that ever comes out of his gob.

In November 1992, the day after G.H.W. Bush lost the election to Clinton, the Republicans and conservatives were just beside themselves: stunned, bewildered, dismayed (all things they had no business being -- sometimes you lose the election, jackass -- but that's how a lot were reacting). Then Rush got on his show and spent the next few hours railing and ranting and vowing defiance. He "rallied the troops", and helped make "not getting over it" the new standard Republican reaction. I forget the sources (all fairly mainstream) that called him a "national ward captain" for the Republicans. When the Republicans won big in '96, they credited him so much with their victory that the new Republican "class" of freshman representatives made him an unofficial member. Quite openly -- there was a ceremony, press, etc.

He's played that role to the hilt ever since. Not to say he wasn't doing it before too, he'd been the same at least since he went national, but before it was a point you could argue about. Afterwards? Only his dittohead fanboys and people not paying attention buy the "just an entertainer" line.

Neaderthals did not die out. I'm not a psychologist, but I do charge for advice.

She was the preacher's daughter and the valedictorian of our high school. We've discussed high school stuff and really, I do not know if she was asleep or paranoid all those years. I do not remember life as she does. To me, school was easy, fun, lots of laughs. I barely cracked open a book and still graduated #7. I guess she was chained to her desk and really struggled to be #1. And for what?

She's sickly, super religious and has every "new" illness known to man.

I thought for sure with her "smarts" she was going to be some big money making machine. Little did I know she wasn't that smart and really no people smarts either.

She and her husband are right wingers and the scary part is both are educators.

She teaches Spanish at a college and I read her reviews on Rate My Professor. Scathing, with one sympathy review thrown in. I was shocked when I found out she was a spanish teacher. She said she learned Spanish so she could know what we were saying about her. Believe me, no one talked about her. She was just there. We were friendly, but she was a band geek and hung out with them.

I still really like her and wish I could bring her down here to live with me so I could straighten her out and get her to relax. She really sounds like a "woe is me" martyr.

They must believe they were born into a privileged group and that said group has a right to that privilege; since they do not feel individually worthy.

They feel more secure thinking there are rules and so long as they follow those rules, they will be OK.

So from an individual perspective, what I see at the root of the problem with the public psyche boils down to simple insecurities. How we've been conditioned to operate on envy as a primary component of interaction is not so simple.

Someone up thread refers to a study of authoritarianism, work I'm not familiar with, but know the terminology due to a brief look at the Milgram experiment, which took place decades ago. I believe the surprising results of that study are central to how we find ourselves a manipulated and misguided public today. The PTB has been very successful in drawing many lines to separate and compartmentalize in order to divide through the selling of exceptionalism. We tend to favor those who tell us we're better or our side has it more right a more attentive ear. Technology plays a peripheral role as well IMO, we've become so reliant on machinery that we have come to covet its robotic nature.

As I see disregard is what it is that breeds contempt, and that a combination of perceptions built using the blocks I've alluded to could whip up a palatable air of animosity.

reference to the Milgram experiment.

Anyone who has never heard of the Milgram experiment should Google it as it deals with the basics of human nature, the cruelty that human beings are capable of inflicting on each other, and the "I was only following orders" mentality.

Milgram is a topic that deserves its own thread and I wish you'd start one.

from a much heavier hitter than me. One of my first posts ever is in this thread, many good observations through out and not sure what I'd have of substance to offer after taking in all that. But thanks.

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5751677>

I just said something similar ten minutes ago, in another thread. Not about rw talking heads, but about so many states already planning to adopt Arizona's racist legislation.

:(

a hideous, evolutionary mistake.

I can only add my own observations/anecdotes which mostly mirror what I've read above but I would like to take a stab at being philosophical if I may.

In the interest of full disclosure, I used to listen to Limbaugh in the early-mid 90's and am an ex-rethug, though I was never of the lock-step variety and often questioned the need to be a "team player". I had and still have friends and family that are REALLY to the right and the archetypes described above and relations are being strained and it's often difficult to keep subjects apolitical.

Anyway, as one who used to be amognst them, I think it boils down to 2 main issues:

1) Religion: This is a nut you aint going to crack. Often this is the "glue" which binds the ideology together, even if they're not firm supporters of the other neocon issues. Forget trying to move these sorts. It's a cult: Trust me.

2) Ego: This is more complicated but I can tell you that all the RW pundits / talk hosts have the whole sales thing down. It's slickly produced and entertaining and makes lock-step types feel good about themselves. Slogans, talking points etc, while specious under full examination, resonate well with them, and disagreement is almost impolite. Even if some realize ( and they do and admit when pressed ) some of these claims are way too hype-driven and over-the-top, they just see that as a minor casualty to be taken: All the matters is our team wins! Rabid sports-fan mentality. Also, ego is the reason they will never back down when proven wrong. Don't want to be weak, or seen as such; but then again if they weren't such loudmouths, they wouldn't have painted themselves into such an awkward corner.

Me? My reason was a slow steady one. I heard, and "believed" many of the talking points, but I noticed over the period of a decade that reality didn't bear them out; The party line vs reality becoming most aparrent, especially regarding economics. Seeing how much BS their ideas were prompted me to get all the more curious to read up on what I didn't have any 1st hand knowledge in. Thing is: As I was never a passionate spouter for the neocon cause, I was all to glad to turn totally against the whole neocon philosophy. In fact, I'm glad to reverse myself. Now, my neocon friends/family still try to persuade me. The harder they try the more I reject and the madder they get...as if I formed my opinions with closed eyes. Finally I'm blunt and say: "Look, you don't have to TELL me your talking points! I KNOW them and I totally REJECT them! It's all bullshit!"

extremely difficult and I'm not sure how many people are capable of pulling it off.

Many on our side of the philosophical fence hold their views because it's what their parents believed. Others arrived here through reading, thinking and just plain common sense.

Like you, I have acquaintances and family members who are trapped on the "dark side" and who try to convince me how "misguided" I am. You really need to be commended on the ideological journey you made. I can only hope that I would have had the wherewithal to do so had I been in your position.

Jesus, Moses, Muhammad, would all be killed by the religious types, because they all spoke about compassion vs judgement, examples versus laws. Fortunately, Satan knows how to co-opt everything decent and allow the same wolves that kill the martyrs to use their skins as "sheep's clothing."

The world must be made simple, unambiguous.

These are people who get nervous when they are confronted with the kind of complexity where answers are deferred, or where there are no answers.

Actually I think some of the hardcore right are treatable. But you have to offer support and an opportunity to grow beyond shallow and limited thinking, and they have to want to take that step into a new day. Much easier to fall back on the safe and secure and follow the cult leaders.

We joke about them being "Kool-Aid" drinkers. But in reality, they are a cult that has surrendered the ability to think, and they blindly swallow any piece of garbage fed to them.

Perhaps, Palin followers are among the most pathetic. Limbaugh, Beck and many of the others put forth some kind of shallow rationale that someone can buy into if they don't think too hard.

Palin, on the other hand, offers disjointed sentences and a lack of anything that could possibly be defined as thought. Her followers could easily have been among those who offed themselves in some misguided, dangerous belief that a passing comet would bring them a kind of salvation. (Google Hale-Bopp comet.)

Like in her original church: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZD1_fVBuLQ

This is also part of her background: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww

What she does is get into a kind of rhythmic cadence and pitch her voice to people's gut emotions. The words flow over her devotees in a soothing babble. They don't really have to hear more than one or two words to get the gist. It's a kind of code. She mesmerizes.

Sarah Palin is a televangelist crossed with a right wing politician. It appears to be working for her.

Has his books on the top shelf on his bookshelf. The last time I spent a day with my Grandson he said, "Daddy says Fox news tells the truth". So, I don't think he was abused, not by me, but he is Army/National Guard, I think that is what happened to him.

I think it's fear. The world is a scary as hell place, and Rush et al play the fear card all day, every day. Only Rush can guide you through the coming terror. The oldest trick in the political book.

and it makes them resentful and full of hate of those who are intelligent. Now they've found each other under the guise of being politically active when they never gave a shit before. If they ever gave a shit they would know their history and some facts. They know neither and in their new found group they're proud of it and even show off.

WTF happened?

From what I've observed they (Beck/Palin/Limbaugh followers) seem to be fueled by a fake, uber nationalistic, patriotism. They see themselves as the only "real" Americans and it's their job to take their country back from some unknown group. That's another thing, they always believe someone or something is coming to take something from them, that fuels a lot of them as well.