Auth: Continuing SNAFU in the graveyard of empires

are of no consequence to the people making the decisions.

You will never see the daughters of George Bush or Barack Obama enlisting to fight in this war.

Our involvement is dictated by imperial goals. Our recognition that we've already lost is prevented by concerns about how our loss will be perceived by our "enemies." Pride, not purpose, will result in thousands lives lost before we admit defeat.

Sigh. :(

Know your BFEE: The Stench of Moussaoui Permeates the Octopus

"Money trumps peace," the warmonkey said.

who said it was going to be a quagmire. I trust the guys who've been on the ground.

It's like you all think if you say "We're losing in Afghanistan" long enough it'll suddenly be true some day.

you must be in some way superior?

Your comment reminds of another I heard recently wrt mineral resources. It went something like, "Well now the Afghanis can start paying for this war."

Utter nonsense and senseless inhumanity, is what I see in your post.

Maybe I should ask how many dollars we are losing there daily. That's the kind of argument new management understands, am I right?

Wtf are you talking about? Honestly? Define winning? I bet you have to twist yourself up into a bowl of pretzels to explain.

Average Americans gain nothing from this war. What are you winning? What are you gaining? And at what price your superior sounding attitude?

"The number killed in June alone stands at 94, according to an AFP count, by far the deadliest monthly toll since the war began." - Gotta break a few eggs, am I right?

What's the death toll of Afghanis?

Fuck your war and all those who squeal for more of the same. Get off on it, some of ya too, don't ya? Come on, you can tell me. Ya rubs yourself on the photos of death and shell casings. I'm right, aren't I? Fucking traitor.

Back to your daily overdose of inhumanity already in progress.

http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf

I find they tend to overlap with another group of people I completely fucking loathe...moral-relativists. Not every decision is equally-correct or morally-valid; likewise not every war is worth opposing, nor is every war worth supporting. Any such position requires the reasonable suspension of having a conscience. We should take discriminating reasoned stands in life, it is what sets us apart from the mindless tea-baggers.

So tell me what war would you support...if there isn't one then I have no use for you as you're clearly a dullard unwilling to possess principles of right and wrong.

I support this war because the regime that we displaced harbors and supports terrorists; maims, tortures and murders children; oppresses, maims, murders, tortures and believes in the punitive-rape of women; supports sectarian and ethnic cleansing within their own borders; destroys their cultural heritage and hold respect for no earthly thing or human life including their own...and has been exceedingly clear that they WILL DO IT ALL AGAIN. That makes this a fight we cannot afford to lose at any cost because we cannot allow them to regain control. That requires no pretzel-logic, it's as clear as daylight.

And what is the qualitative difference between the regime in Afghanistan that "harbors and supports terrorists; maims, tortures and murders children; oppresses, maims, murders, tortures and believes in the punitive-rape of women; supports sectarian and ethnic cleansing within their own borders; destroys their culture heritage and hold respect for no earthly thing or human life including their own" and similar segments of the United States? Well, I suppose that some of them in the U.S. have respect for their own miserable lives, but other than that . . . ? We have a pretty impressive record of terrorism on our own, as well as maimings, torture, oppression and the rest that compares pretty well to the Taliban in Afghanistan. Would you support a war against the United States by other countries based on the same premises that you posit for the U.S. invasion and occupation of Afghanistan?

that I get a voice in this.

I am a reactionary pacifist. Show me the war, and I can tell you the down side. WWI ? What did that solve? WWII? Peleliu in the Pacific was hell... 11,000 Japanese died and nearly 2,000 Americans. For an island that was of no strategic use and was bypassed anyway. The firebombing of Dresden... Hiroshima & Nagasaki... We fought the Japanese because they infringed on our Empire in the Far East. We fought the Germans because they were out to control the economy of Europe. Don't bother telling me we went to war to save the Jews.
Vietnam holds a special place in my heart. 58,000 dead Americans and a couple of million Vietnamese died for absolutely nothing. The "Communist Menace" now sells us shrimp and running shoes.... and wants to sell us more. Don't forget the glories of Grenada and Panama, either.

All that geopolitical bullshit is just that... bullshit.

All that Dudley-Do-Right bullshit about saving suffering humanity is bullshit, too.

If we want to save suffering humanity, we'd be bombing the Afghanis with food, bluejeans, and school supplies.

You say "I support this war because..." and I go numb. I've heard all the excuses.

Somebody in authority needs to find another way, because what we have now just ain't working.

:applause:

God, I can't stand ignorant assholes.

All we have to do is observe what is going on over there in order to come to that conclusion.

There is no possible way to win a war like what we're fighting in Afghanistan, much like there is no way to win in Iraq.

But hey, continue to cheer on the death of innocents and the steep decline of our country as we continue to pursue that mythical "win"(whatever "winning" is, there hasn't been a good definition of that one yet and we're nine years into this war).

Your entire argument comes down to: "We can't win."

I feel better now...it's so convenient when the opponent is simple, direct and wrong. It makes rebuttal so easy..."um, you're still wrong."

See how easy that was.

BTW, a "win" is the creation of a stable not-anti-American state where the Taliban cannot regain power. So simple, so direct...and attainable, though it'd be easier if Poppy Bush's friends at Langley hadn't armed them against the Soviets 30 years ago who were also kicking their asses up one side of the Khyber Pass and down the other until we got involved.

And why is Iraq devolving into a violent hellhole before we've even left? Hell, for that matter, why didn't the British win against the colonials on this soil.

It is a known fact that winning an imperial war against a guerrilla force is damn near impossible. The imperial power can't go in with full force because that would destroy the whole purpose of their being there, namely to extract resources, treasure, etc. Thus the only other option is a prolonged war of attrition in which the imperial power loses due to the massive expenditure of money and resources on their part, and the turn of public opinion against the war.

This is historical reality.

As far as the definition of a "win," well hell, we can't achieve that, much like we can't achieve it in Iraq. Anything we set up in terms of government or power center is going to be torn down as soon as we leave because it will be seen as illegitimate by the people of that country. Also rather hard to be free of the Taliban when Karzi is already playing footsie with them.

Again, there is no win for us in Afghanistan, much like there was no win for us in Vietnam. At this point there are only varying degrees of losing, and the longer we stay there, the more we lose. Time to cut our losses and get the hell out.

The American Empire will be buried there, along with all the others.

Ya think?

I'd make the hole a little wider, and show one or two people with shovels assiduously digging deeper. And maybe someone at the edge of the pit proclaiming victory, as if by doing so he could summon victory into reality.

Bogeyman Bin Laden is laughing his ass off, rolling in his grave.