Yanno . . . . . it all comes down to ending those two fucking wars.

National solvency

A restored social safety net

Prosperity

Etc.

You get the idea.

The solution is very simple.

End those two fucking wars.

It's more profitable for those at the top to keep doing things just as they are. Military Industrial complex,The Haliburton types, Banks, Wall Street, Big Business, Politicians. All making big profits off us and by dragging out the wars.
And then there's that Imperialistic thing.

that's the only reason we went there - well OK - that and shrub's desire to be a "war president".

:argh:

x 2000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.

Probably Iran.

Whose going to want them? We are of course. And we've known about them for 3-4 years now. Imperialism marches on. Who else in that region has what we want? Iran! So the propaganda machine is working overtime to paint them as dangerous, like they did with Iraq.

there is plenty to be made off of a war, therefore wars will be neverending.

We won't move on until the bu$hshits are behind bars..I don't want them behind me...then we can look forward.

See the cost and trade offs of both wars on the country and/or any state in the union. This site staggers me every time I look at it. What a damn waste!

costofwar.com

I wish we weren't there in the first place. One fiasco was enough, but Bush needed revenge and drove us into the gutter. :mad:

The military-industrial complex is killing us from within.

Please understand that I'm not attacking you. I'd just like to know what you mean.

or aggravated the situation in those places.

We should have done an Interpol/CIA directed police action to go after Bin Laden, not start a whole war.

In hindsight, we shouldn't have gone into Iraq and should have focused on helping to rebuild Afghanistan instead.

If we just withdraw tomorrow regardless of the consequences, we'd be repeating the same mistakes we made in 1989:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x409479">Afghanistan 1989: A Look At Charlie Wilson's War With CIA Whistleblower John Stockwell (VIDEO)

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/10/03/ret.biden.afghanistan">Biden to propose reconstruction if Afghanistan attacked

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/congress/?q=node/77531&id=8303750">Biden's Full Proposal 10-03-2001

http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=afghanwar_tmln&afghanwar_tmln_us_invasion__occupation=afghanwar_tmln_us_redirection_of_forces_to_iraq">Timeline That Clearly Shows How Bushco Redirected US Forces - and Subsequently Everyone's Attention - from Afghanistan to Iraq

http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=afghanwar_tmln&afghanwar_tmln_us_invasion__occupation=afghanwar_tmln_economic_reconstruction">Timeline From 2001 Onwards That Clearly Shows How Subsequent Empty Promises of Economic Redevelopment Led us to the SNAFU in Afghanistan President Obama Was Left to Deal With

That could be the case, but I certainly haven't been sold on it.

I haven't been sold on it either and this is my main concern about how Obama has handled Afghanistan. Only focusing on building up a security force seems doomed to failure.

Because we are fighting for Big Oil and extraction industries. Pulling out and leaving would leave a mess, but a smaller mess than continuing to stay there.

Iraq - yes, we screwed their country up royally and it's way worse now than before. Afghanistan - there was nothing there to mess up. The Taliban was in control then and could come back when we leave, but that would be status quo, not more messed up than before. The bad part with Afghanistan is that we built up their hopes for freedom and dignity with promises we couldn't keep.

Iraq - yes, we screwed their country up royally and it's way worse now than before.

I wonder what percentage of Iraqis would say that things were better under Saddam? I'm pretty sure if you are a Kurd or a Shiite, the answer is no. If you are a Sunni, you miss the good old days. Of course, Sunnis are only 30% of the population...

It was recently, oh I know, it's the Pottery Barn rationalization. Fuck! Plus ca change, etc.

Please give us a small fucking personal break on the double-speak.

K THX

... that used to be their favorite talking point term.


So how exactly does one go for a "realistic" way to end "responsibly" a war of our choice that we started under false premises?

"Please Kill Responsibly".

(is there a REASON why you still believe our leaders on anything regarding foreign policy?)

Before long we'll be hearing about the Vietnamaztion (Afghanistanzation?) of the war.

That we had to stay or that things would fall apart if we didn't.

eom

Obama talks very little to none about getting out of Afghanistan. He talks at length about winning and success and finishing the job and the risk to US security.

He doesn't talk about getting out.

Over 1 million to lose unemployment aid, will Bush tax cuts be extended?
By bobreo Chicago : IL : USA | Jun 27, 2010

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/6177303-over-1-million-to-lose-unemployment-aid-will-bush-tax-cuts-be-passed

"The Congressional Budget Office estimates that the Bush tax cuts, which include across-the-board tax breaks for the wealthy and middle class, including permanent income tax cuts, reduction of the alternative minimum tax, and suspension of the estate tax, will cost an estimated $250 billion, while adding hundreds of billions to the deficit."

And they have no intentions of allowing their profits to be cut.

It's really as simple as that.

and because of that draft, there was a lot of protesters in the streets almost every single day for years.

The powers that be made sure there was not going to be such a draft this time, and hundreds of teevee channels, thousands of video games, and who knows what else (DVDs, Web Sites, younameit).

So today, as long as there won't be any popular movement like a country-wide unlimited hunger strike of 95% of the U.S. population for weeks, these wars will keep going on endlessly, and they sure will do everything they can to start another round (against NK and Iran).

Who's there to stop them?

they lie to us about why we are even there - trillions go missing as right wing war profiteers laugh their way to the bank. hell yes we need to end these wars. oh yeah not to mention all the misery, death, and massive devastation. ugh. :grr:

:popcorn:

;)

and then we could focus on ending capitalism so we don't start more of them.

But that's what happens when you get the deadly combination of an attack like the kind of 9/11/01 and a war hungry ruling party. A big hulking stupid lug lashing out blindly, and not caring who or what he is laying waste to.

since that's why we're over there in the first place.

Obviously NO ONE is listening to Al Gore who said this very thing years ago. :argh:

::P

Isn't that an illegal statement now?

Bring the troops home and put them to work building public transportation systems, wind farms, solar panels and tidal generators.

and offer them work in rebuilding infrastructure, along with training in the medical professions. We need to transition to single-payer health care, and even now, without a right to medical care, we are short on doctors, nurses, and other medical professionals.

Each day, 273 people die due to lack of health care in the U.S.

We need single-payer health care, not a welfare bailout for the serial-killer insurance agencies.

Oh, wait...

I'll shut up now. :)

Thank you very much!

They think this "government" is for their own personal $$$$$$$$ use.

Out-of control militarism is only a symptom of the general underlying problem.

You speak for me, Stinky Clown. Thank you for telling it like it is.

:patriot: :applause:

but you bring up cutting Defense spending and they wigg out. How they hell are you going to balance the budget if you don't cut the biggest expenditure.

still trying to wrap my head around how anyone can justify this stupidity..

that they also have not captured or killed '56', given that they have around 2B per qaeda to do so, per year.

Maybe a Big Deck of Cards would help?

. . . how has the "elusive" Osama Bin Laden slipped by them all this time? :think:

Really, how long are they going to milk this "9/11, Taliban, Axis of Evil, whatever" thing? Looking back, did we really ever even care about avenging those deaths?

We're blowing up two sovereign nations for what? Does anyone really have a straight answer anymore?

They got nuttin'

Closest to rational was "we broke it so we gotta fix it".

bases while we are at it.

fucking rapublicans

destroy our way of living by bankrupting not only our country (more than we already are), but also our spirit.

These wars are disgusting. We need, perhaps, only special ops to go about tracking down the terrorists who are trying to destroy our Democracies around the world, not full military bases, and ground troops that destroy families and young Americans lives.


END THE SHAMEFUL "WARS"!

You should be president. :sarcasm:

When everyone's children are at risk, we'll see the militarism come to an end.

Right now, it's just too easy to be a hawk. Even a Nobel Peace Prize winner can do it.

BIG K&R

RL

And if you recall Pelosi on video the morning after the '06 elections which was

saying quite clearly . . . "Democrats were elected to end the war!"

Can only suspect that something immediately after that someone took war off the

table -- probably crashed the entire table to bits!

The wars are a symptom, not the cause. The flaws are systemic; you can't just turn off the tap and expect the tulips to spring into bloom and rainbows to appear magically.

Yes. What a waste.

I've got a hard time believing we're really there for the oil, and even harder time believing that our need for that oil is a matter of our national security.

If you look here: <http://www.energyrefuge.com/archives/where_oil_comes_from.htm>

the top ten countries that the U.S. imports from:

1. Canada
2. Mexico
3. Saudi Arabia
4. Venezuela
5. Nigeria
6. Angola
7. Iraq
8. Algeria
9. United Kingdom
10. Brazil



or here: <http://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/trend-lines/1021/where-does-the-u-s-get-its-oil>



or here: <http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html>

Crude Oil Imports (Top 15 Countries)
(Thousand Barrels per Day)
Country Mar-08 Feb-08 YTD 2008 Mar-07 YTD 2007
CANADA 1,795 1,920 1,886 1,780 1,825
SAUDI ARABIA 1,535 1,614 1,541 1,216 1,325
MEXICO 1,232 1,231 1,220 1,621 1,475
NIGERIA 1,154 982 1,102 1,290 1,156
VENEZUELA 858 945 980 1,036 1,033
IRAQ 773 780 697 523 464
ANGOLA 384 341 433 696 570
ALGERIA 247 191 269 501 484
ECUADOR 231 169 217 191 214
KUWAIT 199 261 232 288 208
BRAZIL 188 169 175 209 174
COLOMBIA 135 220 174 108 107
RUSSIA 108 80 68 193 92
CONGO (BRAZZAVILLE) 105 97 98 79 58
CHAD 101 89 103 66 74
Sources: http://www.eia.doe.gov


you'll see that the vast majority of our oil comes from other places. Don't get me wrong, I totally support ending these wars and I completely agree with our need to end our reliance on oil; but conflating our oil use with our wars in the middle east is just spin to further justify our presence in the region.

:shrug:

Obama ends wars unemployment goes up. Rich corporations start losing money. Rich corporations and super bankers own Washington and those mis-leaders who work there for the military industrial complex.

The USSR ended up trying to stay afloat by waging a 10 year war and selling arms to anyone who had the cash, right before their big crash.

If we "win" in Afghanistan what will be the prize? Democracy? I wish we could afford that here at home. Hazmat Carbide running the show in cahoots with the Tali-ban? The only winners in Afghanistan will be the crooks, the dope farming bad guys and the energy companies. Let the energy companies pay for their own military to fight their own battles, or let our government run the energy companies.

Americans must go on sacrificing 28% of their income to the mega monsters like:



FEED ME!

That is what is needed to meet the Sept 1 deadline for troops in Iraq to be down to 50,000. The most that have left in any month is 12,000. That was several months ago. I am beginning to wonder if the deadline will be met.

As for Afghanistan, it will have to end with a different president. Obama is unwilling or unable to do it.