Legal eagles SOS: civil rights violations of kids near border

Hi, I'm a journalist and need advice from legal experts criminal law in California and civil rights issues.

I am investigating a case involving three young minors who were treated quite abusively it seems. These are Indian-Mexican kids who had been accepted into a Border Patrol summer camp program. Mom got them military surplus khakis/camouflage and per the camp rules they had to jog each day to get in shape. In their neighborhood five miles from the border there is a lot of drug smuggling. Mom was worried about them jogging alone in this very rural area because 3 sexual predators have been released and live nearby, plus there are mountain lions and rattle snakes. So she gave the oldest a pocketknife with a four-inch blade.

Two law enforcement officials stopped the kids and said it was because of the camouflage clothes. (IS THIS PROFILING? I suspect racial profiling here. We are NOT in Arizona!) They asked if they had any weapons and the oldest produced his knife and explained the facts above. The officers then proceeded to body search all 3 kids including a 12-year-old girl - male officers, no female officers present. This was patting down through the clothes in intimiate areas. One of the kids got mouthy after they slammed him against a vehicle and handcuffed him. They claimed it was after curfew; it wasn't; curfew was over 2 hours away! They refused to allow kids to call Mom even though they were at the end of their own driveway; this was PRIVATE property, not public. Eventually a female officer came and subjected the girl to another search. They were going to haul them all away and had them loaded up in the car when another officer who knew the family came along and told the other officers to let the kids go. They took them back to the parents. Next day Mom learned her 15-year-old son is being charged with felony for carrying a concealed weapon! Even though a friend who knows a bit of the law says it has to be 7 inches to be illegal; this was only about 4.

I find it outrageous that you can't carry a small knife for protection in such a dangerous area with lions, smugglers, sexual predators and so forth. I am also outraged that they would stop and search children (the oldest was 15, other two were 12) and harass them in this manner, and not allow the kids to even contact their parents. Makes me wonder what would've happened to these kids if nobody had come along. The officers were new to the area and while apparently legit per the officer who recognizsed them, repeatedly REFUSED to give Mom their names or ranks. She suspects they were working under cover on a drug operation.

So...the question is how many rights were violated here and what can the family, who is low income, do?

Questions:

What is the law about carrying a concealed knife in CA? How big is too big? Are there no exceptions for self defense? How about private property (ungated)? Does not knowing the law (these kids didn't) make a difference?

Do police have the right to stop and search you, or demand you turn over weapons, just because of your clothes?

Is it illegal for a male officer to pat down a female juvenile?

If they detain juveniles near their home is it a violation of anything not to let the juveniles call home or notify parents immediately?

Would this have happened if these kids were white?

How can the cops claim late curfew as an excuse to hassle these kids when it was nowhere near curfew time?

Do I have a right to the police records as media? (This department has become notorious for rejecting reasonable media requests.)


If these officers violated the law or these people's civil rights, what recourse is there -- what can happen to the officers?


Where can Mom can help -- I will be talking with the ACLU in the a.m. but would appreciate any tips and advice DUers with expertise in these areas can provide.

and the parent should be able to go down and get a copy of it. I would think it will have the name of the arresting officer on it. From there she should be able to file a complaint against the officer. If the officer has several complaints against him, who knows the department may decide to look into it, but more likely than not, nothing will happen on their end. However, there will be in his record a complaint of his brutality. I don't know if any attorney would be willing to sue for her as many will see it as no harm really done.

I think the best thing anyone can do for their kids these days (where the militarization of our PDs is quickly occurring), is to teach them to be respectful but distrustful of the police. Teach them their rights. With the number one being; don't tell the police anything other than their name, address and parents telephone number. Have them respectfully decline to talk to the police (as they would any stranger) until the parent arrives.

to be quiet when they're being roughed up by the cops. Sad thing is these were kids who actually looked up to law enforcement officers before this, and had even enrolled in Border Patrol camp.

BP camp for kids is a whole other issue; I'd never heard of this until today.

:grr:

I"d speak to the ACLU and whatever prominent criminal defense attorneys you can find. The police can temporarily detain you, ask you for your name/address and do a Terry. Meaning that they can pat you down, but can't actively search in your pockets unless there's probable cause to suspect a weapon is being concealed.

As for the rest, I don't know. It depends on the circumstances. I don't know about the legality concerning male officers patting down females, but if it was a strip search..

It's these very kinds of situations that make children grow up to have little to no respect for the law or authority figures. I should know. I certainly don't have any respect for it, nor any kind of authority figure. Keep in mind, that absent any videotaped evidence or independent witnesses other than the kids, a judge would probably believe the police officers.

Curfew? Wrong. The officer who came onto the scene and the Mom both confirm it was only 8:30 or so. Curfew is `11.

No one has accused the kids of doing anything suspicious. They weren't fleeing a crime scene or anything.

The officers claimed they stopped them because the camo clothes were suspicious; no other reason even given. Is that legal?

...a serious arse kicking if she gave the kid that knife for "protection" as is claimed.

A four inch, folding pocket knife is not an effective defensive weapon. Takes too long to retrieve and open it.

Not saying that it's not a useful tool, but the reason given for carrying it was self defence, and unfortunately if you say that to a cop, the rest is pretty much inevitable.

Not a foldup.

There are dangers for kids from wild animals. Just last week a 12-year-old girl in our area got attacked by a coyote.

She also gave the kid a kerchief and knife to treat snakebite--draw out the poison. This is the Indian way; I am also wondering about interfering with tribal customs...somehow seems wrongs to tell Indians who hunted on these lands for centuries before we all came along that you can't carry a knife anymore.

Cut and suck is long discredited, allowing certain populations to maintain it for the sake of tradition is just plain criminal.

And while I believe kids should be allowed to carry knives I can also understand why the law is against it.

Back in my day when you got your first knife, you felt 10 feet tall, but it wore off in a day or two after all your friends had a chance to say "cool". After that it was just a tool you carried around in your pocket or schoolbag, you got it out when you needed a knife (or one of the other almost completely useless tools) and put it away when done.

Today, you don't carry a knife because you never know when you need to cut a piece of string or scale a fish, but in case you need to stick into another human being who is giving you grief.

This area has had mountain lion sightings frequently in the past couple of weeks, a coyote attack on a 12-year old, etc.

Unlike guns, which can ONLY be used as weapons, knives can also be used as tools to cut rope or twine, or by hunters, or for self defense.