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A right wing "friend" on FB just told me that Clinton destroyed our economy

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driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 11:51 AM
Original message
A right wing "friend" on FB just told me that Clinton destroyed our economy
I posted a cartoon about government regulation -- he replied:

"B.S. flag - it was the governement that was forcing Banks to make bad loans - or they would sue them for racism. Look up the Clinton Era "Community Revitaliztion act" that finally destroyed our economy.
The B.P. drilling derrick in the Gulf had just won a safety award from the Obama administration a few months before the spill."

Oy vey...
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. Write back, "You are surely criminally insane." then move on...
...people like that cannot see straight...don't waste your time and energy....they're too stupid to know they're stupid.
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driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. You know what's funny? This guy is really intelligent.
He has a degree in nuclear physics -- I'm serious.

How does someone that smart believe this shit??
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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. There is some basis in fact
But not much. It's just the RW spin to deflect anyone looking to the pukes for responsibility. Shiny object here.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. Intelligent people can have narrow blinders on...I think it was Goethe
who said something about expecting people to reason and you'll be disappointed...most people can't or won't...he's smart in his area of expertise, but unable to stop himself from being driven by his ideology to see when he's wrong about something else.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. degree in nuclear physics from B. U.?

I've seen the curriculum for atomic scientists from BU





Beck University....







That sardonic remark aside, your 'friend' sounds ignorant and uniformed.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. I saw a lot of that at MIT
They were people who were brilliant within their fields but once they stepped outside that field, forget it. Once you were done with their field, you were pretty much done with them.

Some people are just plain limited. The lucky ones have found one area they can excel at.
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abelenkpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Just delete their comment
and if they ask why say you exercised your right to edit out fox news' regurgitated idiocy.

I block the news feeds of all my right wing relatives in an effort to preserve my sanity.
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Juneboarder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!
My blood pressure just dropped because of your ingenious idea to block news feeds from specific people. I should have figured that out sooner, but thanks to you my life just got better :)
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JSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. Yeah,but
they can still comment on your posts.
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abelenkpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. True.
But after deleting a few of their over their top comments they will get the message and stop bothering to reiterate fox news talking points...usually. :)

Facebook for me is a way to keep my family up to date but at arms length as we don't agree politically and live on the opposite coasts.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. As far as the Clinton accusation goes
Bush had 8 years to undo what Clinton did and didn't so the Bush Administration certainly shares some of the responsibility for not undoing policy conservatives thought was bad.

I'd love to see a link to this "award." Even if there is such a thing, so what? It doesn't take the blame off of BP one bit.
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Not only did he not undo anything Clinton did...
Edited on Tue Jul-13-10 12:06 PM by JHB
...just who was promoting that "ownership society" business.

And for more debunking:

But a look at the actual data shows that Fannie and Freddie—while certainly plagued with problems—are not the root causes of the subprime mortgage meltdown nor the financial collapse. First, context: Fannie and Freddie's roles, in part, consisted of buying up lots of mortgages in the secondary mortgage markets, i.e., taking them off the books of mortgage originators, and allowing those originators to extend more credit to potential homeowners. Over time, the two GSEs' positions as secondary purchasers of mortgages was used to try to expand homeownership to groups of Americans that traditionally didn't have access to this kind of credit—namely, low-income citizens.

Now to Barry Ritholtz. An financial expert and wildly popular blogger, Ritholtz has written time and time again about the lunacy of blaming Fannie and Freddie. He's so sure of his position that he's offered $100,000 to anyone who can prove him wrong. Here's Ritholtz debunking the Fannie and Freddie meme:

The origination of subprime loans came primarily from non-bank lenders not covered by the (Community Reinvestment Act, a law pushing the two GSEs to purchase more loans in the secondary markets and thus expand access to housing loans to low-income neighborhoods);
The majority of the underwriting, at least for the first few years of the boom, were by these same non-bank lenders;
When the big banks began chasing subprime, it was due to the profit motive, not any mandate from the President (a Republican) or the Congress (Republican controlled) or the GSEs they oversaw;
Prior to 2005, nearly all of these sub-prime loans were bought by Wall Street—NOT Fannie & Freddie;
In fact, prior to 2005, the GSEs were not permitted to purchase non-conforming mortgages;
The change in FNM/FRE conforming mortgage purchases in 2005 was not due to any legislation or marching orders from the President (a Republican) or the the Congress (Republican controlled). It was the profit motive that led them to this action.

That's Ritholtz's perspective, which he backs up in more detail in his book, Bailout Nation. Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.), who as then-chair of the House oversight and government reform committee, put it this way in 2008: "It is a myth to say they were the originators of the subprime crisis. Fundamentally, they were following the market, not leading it."

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/05/dear-gop-fannie-mae-freddie-mac-cause-financial-crisis-subprime-mortgage-gse

(your choice on whether to give the Mother Jones article (guy seems likely to dismiss it out of hand as "leftist"), but you can also use it to check its sources and use them.)

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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
5. Sounds like time for unfriending
The Community Revitalizing Act was from the 1970s, not "the Clinton Era." And the notion that banksters were "forced" to make bad loans is just plain laughable. The "anything goes" attitude of the Bush administration rewarded (for a time) banks for making more and more speculative loans and investments, the unregulated CDO market, and the banksters' own reckless greed doomed the economy. Not to mention the Bush administration launching two elective invasions and occupations of other countries while the Republican-controlled Congress simultaneously cutting taxes for the overrich fatcats, leaving a huge recessionary liability that eventually came home to roost in 2008.

Honestly, it's like the Bush administration never happened for these people.
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denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. He's completely ignorant about the community revitalization act.
It didn't require banks to write any loan. It just required they not red-line geographic areas. They could deny any customer a loan if they had bad credit, but not just because they lived in a particular area. 100% Limbaugh propagated lie.
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mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. What you actually thought a FB con would believe that the con party had anything to do with
the economy crash or what lead up to said crash? Remember these are the people who are only worried about others taking responsibility when it comes to them it's finger pointing time. Same when a con looses a job, it is never their fault or the bosses fault, it's because some minority took their job or some other lame excuse they can think of as the reason why they are jobless. Same when they are collecting unemployment or welfare, they don't get enough so it must be the minorities using up all the resources.
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Uben Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
9. Pin him down....
...make him tell you exactly what it was that Clinton did. I love to watch these ignorant bastards squirm when you ask for facts. Tell him, "Either you know, or you are lying. Which is it?" Of course, we already know.
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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Exactly.
And counter the Clinton accusation with Foreclosure Phil.

http://motherjones.com/politics/2008/05/foreclosure-phil


And the Obama blessed the rig crap with this.

http://www.ufppc.org/us-a-world-news-mainmenu-35/9569-news-deregulation-a-cost-cutting-may-have-led-bp-to-omit-costly-standard-safety-item.html

I'm trying to find the requirement that our government should have had in place for a disaster recovery plan for such deepwater drilling. Having a hard time.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
10. Did you point out that the bulk of the defaulted loans are for ...
homes purchased without any connection to the community revitalization act. And that the worst offenders are the rich since they bought the most expensive homes.
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
11. Clinton's biggest fault was shepherding the Reagan-era Neoliberal policies......

...... which are so responsible for this mess.



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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
12. Folks we know most republicans are lacking brain power AND
every day in every way, especially in the posting they do and the signs they make, they prove it. Best thing to do is tell them so and forget them.
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rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
18. You need to get yourself some new friends n/t
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
19. Tell him the problem is mortgage debt securitization and derivative positions related to them
There is no reason the losses for banks due to sub prime mortgage should have caused this collapse. It is due to the things banks were doing with the mortgages after they issued them.

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ChoppinBroccoli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
22. This Must Be A New Right-Wing Talking Point
Because I just had a FB friend tell me virtually the EXACT same thing.
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driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Unbelievable, isn't it?
I have to hand it to the Rethugs -- they certainly know how to distribute their talking points!
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
23. He did repeal Glass-Steagall and pass NAFTA, so he isn't blameless.
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. With the help of every damn republican in congress and a handful of Blue Dogs.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
25. show him this... in W's own, pride-filled words...
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
28. Clinton did a lot of bad things to the economy.
The CRA was not one of them. NAFTA was though. And all the similar "free" trade bullshit that followed. And repealing Glass Steagal. Among others.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
29. He did: NAFTA.
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