Apply well in advance for U.S. passports!

After having experienced what I've experienced with my passport application, I strongly encourage anyone who will require a new passport for travel for anywhere other than a U.S. territory to apply no later than 4-6 months prior to their departure date. I applied at a local post office 10 weeks ago and still have not received my passport (my partner, sister and mother are in the same situation). Since they also have our birth certificates (required for processing) and we leave in two weeks for our trip, we're in a scramble to at least obtain another copy of our birth certificates to carry with us (part of our trip will be traveling over land to/from Canada). We are aware that passports are not yet required for "land/sea entries" to/from Canada, but we know that things can occur that would require flying to Canada (diversion of our flight, emergency medical evacuation, etc).

I'm aware that the January 1, 2008 requirements may well be pushed out due to what's happening now as far as the State Department's inability to handle the high volume of applications, but I thought it was worth a little heads up to those of you even considering travel outside the U.S.

My editorial comments: This is another shining example of the overall incompetence and stupidity of this regime. They put in new passport requirements then are completely unprepared to handle the increased volume of applications!

<snip>

As early as January 1, 2008, ALL persons, including U.S. citizens, traveling between the U.S. and Canada, Mexico, Central and South America, the Caribbean, and Bermuda by land or sea (including ferries), may be required to present a valid passport or other documents as determined by the Department of Homeland Security. While recent legislative changes permit a later deadline, the Departments of State and Homeland Security are working to meet all requirements as soon as possible. Ample advance notice will be provided to enable the public to obtain passports or passport cards for land/sea entries.

<snip>

<http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html>

yes, you have to prove you are really who you say you are and a citizen of who you say you are to travel, seems to me that people who are not "shady" have always done this anyway

you are not less free because you show a passport instead of a driver's license to get back into the usa -- a driver's license was NEVER proof of citizenship and should have NEVER been accepted as proof of citizenship -- people got a free ride for a lot longer than they should have, if you ask me

either you consider our nation's borders worth defending or you don't

i do

it is right and proper to require the proper proof before admitting someone to your country

if you are a citizen, i don't see why it is onerous or improper to expect you to have a passport to prove it (obviously lacking some extenuating circumstance, such as your passport fell overboard or you got pickpocketed or something but in those cases the state dept. will have a record of your passport)

Borders, like those with Canada, that folks who have lived along have croseed for centuries without having to pay a de facto fee -- lots of people have relatives who live a few miles away; but if you live in Houlton, ME and Grandma lives over the border in Monckton, you suddenly need passports for your family of seven to go see Grandma?

Tell that to a guy who makes his living working odd jobs and helping out in the potato fields, or who makes minimum wage at the local WAL-MART.


I think throwing up walls, either virtual or concrete, is a stupid idea, a BUSHCO idea, a "Be VERY Afraid" production. I think telling people to be frightened of who's coming in (like terrorists will say "Awww, gee, I need a passport...guess I'll give up my nefarious plan") are totally buying into the BushCo fear bullshit. They'll walk in from Mexico, or Canada, or sail close in, hop on a rubber boat, and find their way to shore. Or slip off a transport vessel, or come in hidden in a container. There's a slew of ways to get to America without presenting your papers to the Border Patrol guy, after all.

We used to have agreements with nations who were our FRIENDS about how we handled these things, that didn't require passports by way of MUTUAL agreement--if we keep this shit up, you won't be able to go down the street without your PAPERS. And we won't have any nation-friends anymore, either.

Travel for the rich only--heckuva plan.

thanks for it!

I was thinking it would also hurt the tourist industry, too--families won't be able to afford to cross the border to visit places like PEI, Niagara Falls, and Vancouver.

never have, never will
2) poster should call the passport agency, they are very helpful, and can give a status on whereabouts the passport is , in the process. Mine came two weeks after such an inquiry. It took forever, and mine came with a chip in it partner, whose application went to the same center in Portsmouth NH, didn't

Get a grip on reality, please.

I'm talking about Sonny and Wife and kids in Island Falls, Maine, who have a Grandma and Grampa in Fredrickton, New Brunswick. I'm talking about Generic Family of Four in Van Buren, Maine, with uncles, aunts and cousins in St. Leonard, NB. And those uncles, aunts, and cousins--who aren't rich EITHER, mind you--like to come over to Van Buren to visit the family every so often.

You see license plates on cars from over the line continuously up by the border. It's not a "rare" occasion; it's life. And plenty of those cars aren't terribly new, either. People are dating and marrying across that line. There are families that are spread out on either side of that line.

There are actually people who cross the border every day to go to work. But we can't trust our neighbors enough to let them do what they've done for centuries? Come on. That's absurd. The European Union, before it existed, used to have these onerous crossings at every country. They got rid of them and the world didn't end. In fact, it got better. So what--we want to take a giant, BushCo step backwards? How idiotic.

jeezes. Blame Canada.

Meanwhile, take a lesson from Canada. We're having to have passports to enter the US by air now (and are smart to have them when entering by land). And our passport issuance system is in disarray. Apply early, apply often (yup, they lose the applications with depressing regularity).

If you go to Canada by air, you need the passport on this side as well. They're not forcing us to have to them to visit Gramps and Granny .... YET. And our passport system is a disaster--it's taking some people MONTHS to get one.

if anything the place is overcrowded

this is just pitiful, why make excuses for people to be able to travel w.out documents, it is just not right if you care about national security

canada has a right to know who is entering their country, as does the usa or any other country

The ONLY reason that Canada is requiring a passport for U.S. citizens to enter Canada is that THE U.S. is requiring a passport for them to re-enter the U.S. We really don't want to get stuck with a bunch of people in immigration/citizenship limbo.

Actually, no, that's not quite the only reason. The other one is so that we can show Big Brother that we're tough on shit, so that terrorists don't get a chance to sneak into the U.S. via Canada the way those WTC terrorists ... er ... didn't; and the way those would-be terrorists that Hillary Clinton and a bunch of other people made so much noise about a couple of years ago ... er ... didn't.

Oh well, one good thing comes of it. It won't be just people with odd coloured skin and funny accents who are being asked to prove their nationality at the border.

You've completely bought the Bush bullshit. Quick, everyone, be afraid...of CANADIANS!!! The Mexicans have already "overrun" us...next thing ya know, those CANADIANS will be coming down and forcing us all to say "EH..." and drink MOOSEHEAD beer....on CINCO DE MAYO!!!!

And gol durn it, we jus' won't be MURICANS enny more!!! :eyes:

Canada survived for hundreds of years not needing a passport from us, as we survived not needing one from them. Friends don't need to force people to get travel documents to come for a visit. See, we trained the Border Patrol personnel to recognize an American, state issued birth certificate and an American driver's license, and a Canadian province-issued birth certificate and driver's license. On the Canadian side, they gave their folks the same training! Such a concept!!!

"Papers...let me see your papers!!!"

that anybody crossing the Canadian border is Canadian, right? And that since Canada is not the enemy, nobody in Canada wants to do us harm?

Sorry, I think it's perfectly reasonable that we behave like all other nations on earth and require visitors to have a passport.

But say, do you really think a 'terrist' who doesn't want to be detected is gonna stop at the border crossing and show papers anyway? Why not just walk across the St. John river at a shallow spot, or wait for winter and slide across the ice, or put on a backpack and hike in?

That's what smart 'terrists'would , and probably do, do. They don't go through the trouble of producing faked papers or submitting themselves to scruitiny.

That's why this entire charade is absurd. It only clogs the system, and targets HONEST people who are going about their business. Making people buy a hundred dollar piece of paper is NOT gonna make you safer. Treating our neighbors like our enemies is NOT gonna make you safer either.

But, whatever--enjoy the BushCo "illusion." Give up some more of that liberty for security.

it giving up liberty. I always bring my passport anyway when I travel to Canada - have done so for many years.

Now back to your assertion that it's being done to stop people from leaving the country - can you explain how this does that, and even better, WHY it's being done? And why only to Canada? If they wanted to stop people from leaving the country, they could do so in a much more comprehensive way.

You haven't explained why you think this is the case.

It's a tool to spur debate, as I have said elsewhere. Of course, if you bothered to read before you hopped on your keyboard in high dudgeon overdrive, you'd have noticed that no "assertion" was made. Except in your mind, perhaps...

But hey, whatever. Keep beating your angry little drum. You have absolutely no understanding of life in American-Canadian border towns or the daily strains of the minimum wage worker with family and friends in the United States AND Canada, but don't let that stop you from running your mouth in aggressive and clueless fashion...it seems to give you such joy.


Knock yourself out....

not an assertion.

Why do you suspect it may be the case that the administration is trying to prevent people from leaving America?

It must be all that in-breeding that makes people who use the royal 'we' like this able to see things that no one else can.


Anyhow, you asked, I answer:

http://www.infoexport.gc.ca/ie-en//DisplayDocument.jsp;jsessionid=PJOC3A5FCGXBECTHNCACFEQ?did=10681
(Government of Canada website)

Travel Documents: A valid Canadian passport should be carried for all visits outside Canada. The passport should be valid for at least six months beyond the date of your expected return to Canada. However, Canadians are only required to be in possession of valid official photo identification (such as a driver's licence) and proof of citizenship (such as a birth certificate) for trips to the Bahamas of up to 21 days. An onward or return ticket and proof of sufficient funds is also required. A valid Canadian passport and a visa are required for Canadians intending to visit the Bahamas for stays over 21 days.

The exception that disproves your rule, it seems.

And:
http://commercecan.ic.gc.ca/scdt/bizmap/interface2.nsf/vDownload/CCG_1970/$file/X_5683552.DOC

Beginning in 2006, Citizens will need passports to re-enter the U.S., but until then no visa is necessary to enter The Bahamas. American citizens do not require a passport or visa to enter The Bahamas, but proof of citizenship such as a birth certificate or voter registration card accompanied by a photo ID is required, as well as a return ticket to the United States.

Not managing to guess what other countries I don't need a passport to travel to, but:
http://www.voyage.gc.ca/main/before/passports-en.asp

You should have a valid Canadian passport for all trips outside Canada. A passport is the only reliable and universally accepted identification document, and it proves that you have a right to return to Canada. Some countries do not require a passport for entry but do require photographic identification (such as a driver’s licence) as well as proof of Canadian citizenship (such as a birth certificate or citizenship card). However, this varies from country to country.

An Ontario govt website says this:
http://www.ontariotravel.net/TcisCtrl?site=consumers&key1=travelTools&key2=travelTips&key3=customs&language=EN&linkType=I

All Other Visitors to Ontario
Citizens of other countries, except Greenland, and residents of St-Pierre and Miquelon, must have a valid passport (some also require a visitor's visa).

The Greenland info may be outdated; post Denmark's entry into the EU, Inuit citizens of Canada have complained that their traditional access to Greenland, an important historic connection among the circumpolar peoples, has been interfered with by the passport requirement.

Obviously, some passport requirements are of relatively recent standing. I expect that the history between Australia and New Zealand is somewhat similar to North American experience.

The fact remains that there is no MacIntosh for our Granny Smith. The bilateral relationship between Canada and the US -- in terms of tourism, trade, family ties, cultural exchange and every other aspect of the centuries-long history in this particular space on earth -- just isn't paralleled anywhere else. That is the actual point here, and nothing having to do with "any other countries" actually addresses that point.

$97 for a ten-year passport isn't "closing the borders" to the poor, not that international travel has ever been a big pasttime of the poor.

Not all poor folks live in Arkansas. There are plenty in Maine and other states bordering Canada.

closing the borders.

By your argument, any passport or visa that is not totally free is "closing the borders". That's nonsense.

An Australian passport costs $193(au), which is $160(us)

A New Zealand passport costs $150 (nz) which is $110 (us)

A five-year passport in Mexico costs $84(us)

A five-year Canadian passport is $92(canadian).

A British passport is $130 (US)




So a 10-year US passport is still cheaper than all those countries. Do you consider them to have "closed borders"?

Why, none. How many BORDER NZ? How many people DRIVE between the two countries? How many people live in one, and work in the other?

Your "example" is a lousy one. How about the 'example' of driving from Italy to Germany without anyone stopping to bother you for 'ze papers?'

When you're allowed to make payments on your passport, like a car note, you come back and talk.

Until then, you haven't a clue about how an entire underclass of Americans, and especially those in border towns that are a bit gritty and have average incomes around twenty grand, live. You're woefully out of touch with the reality of life for these people.

It's no accident that two Republicans, Snow and Collins, both of Maine, are vehemently opposed to BushCo's halfassed "passport to Canada" idea. They're more wired into how this will affect people than you are.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

A passport has NEVER been a required document for a US citizen to enter Canada or a Canadian citizen to enter the US.

I have entered the US quite a lot of times from Canada, and don't actually recall EVER having to show ANY document until post 2001. (Driver's licence and/or birth certificates were the ones everybody carried just in case.)

"Where were you born?" ____ . "Where are you going?" ____. "What is the purpose of your visit?" ____. "How long will you be in the United States?" ____ . "Have a good trip." How do I get to highway ___? "Take the next right."

Of course, I'm white and a native English speaker, born in Canada.

I've crossed the border, both ways, with a US citizen in my car. Same questions in reverse for us both, no documents shown.

Just thought you'd like to know.

the absurd claim that the new passport rules are possibly an attempt to keep all americans from leaving the country. When it was pointed out what a stupid claim that was, it was shifted to "poor Americans".

I listed other countries, too, that DO have borders. No country gives passports for free. A US passport, over its term, is cheaper than most other countries.

The notion that this is an attempt to keep people from leaving the country is just nonsensical.

effect of the law would be to make it more difficult for poor people in border communites to visit relatives over the line.

You've never asked a question to spur debate, eh, there, Socrates?

The point isn't that no country gives passports for free. It's not just the cost, which IS problematic for some, even if you don't happen to like that truth, it's the bloody requirement for them at all.

The point is that we haven't needed a passport in OUR land of the free to visit our border friends since this country was founded. But you don't see a problem with that pretty BIG change in our way of life? I'd suggest it means our friendship is in trouble, frankly.

If anyone isn't seeing the ABSURDITY of it all here, it's you. Throwing up more walls to make it difficult for Americans to move about freely, as they have done since the founding of our nation, is not an improvement. It's a draconian step backward. But hey, whistle a happy tune. Whatever.

And on edit, I'd like to point out that the countries you listed that DO have borders with other countries (Mexico, Canada, and US) NEVER USED TO require passports for travel between them. Now they do, though, for air travel at this stage, thanks to your passport pal, George. Heckuva job.

... I applied for and received FOR FREE --- and Irish passport. Good for 10 years.

Ireland is "the" place in the EU nowadays...it's going gangbusters. Lucky you!

... my mother was born in Ireland.

All of my immediate family has gotten Irish passports, and I'm encouraging my kids to get them too.

-----Ya never know!

And there could be relief for the poor in Australia or New Zealand.

But we pay taxes to the feds and they can at the very least issue us passports for nothing. They can pay $400 for a screwdriver, they can give us a document we are entitled to by basic human rights standards of the civilized world.

and either don't go or come in illegally.

There is horrific rural poverty in Maine. I've seen it up close, on visits when I just tooled around the back roads. Picked up a middle-aged woman hitchhiking home one day, with a turkey for dinner when her grandchildren visited. I took her a few miles out of my way -- I wasn't actually going anywhere -- and she tried to press a few dollars on me. I laughed her off and said she could just let me use her bathroom. I dropped that request when I saw that she was living in a sort of former mobile home that obviously had no plumbing.

Anyhow, yes, it seems that some here don't get it, that not *all* people in the US are as insular as they apparently are. Family connections across the border are extensive in border states and the parts of Canada w/in an hour of the border -- i.e. where 90% of the population here lives; I'm from southwestern Ontario, and both my parents have "American cousins", and I even have a couple myself. And cross-border trips just for family outings are common in both directions -- shopping, sporting events, cultural events, tourist attractions.

Nobody in any of these places benefits from these restrictions, and a lot of people lose.

is your claim that ANY fee for a passport or visa is an attempt to "close the borders"?

Do you think this was done to fuck with the border-poor? The claim is nonsensical.

So I ask you...
is your claim that ANY fee for a passport or visa is an attempt to "close the borders"?

I'd have thought it was plain from my posts here that I think that requiring a passport for cross-border travel by US and Cdn citizens is unreasonable.

I haven't said a thing about anything being "an attempt to 'close the borders'."

Most people on both sides of the border who cross it are not likely going to be travelling to another country in their lifetimes -- certainly that is true of most of the people in questin on the US side (Cdns are more likely to travel abroad for vacations, even if just to Cuba or other Caribbean destinations). They don't need a passport for any other purpose.

I'd think that a Canada-US travel document might be just the ticket. Oh look:

http://ottawa.usembassy.gov/content/textonly.asp?section=can_usa&subsection1=borderissues&document=borderissues_whti_media101606

16 October 06
Department of State to Introduce Passport Card
Initiative to Expedite Travel in the Western Hemisphere While Enhancing Security

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman
For Immediate Release
Media Note
Related Items
Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative

To meet the documentary requirements of the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI), the Department of State, in consultation with the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), today announced and submitted for public comment a federal rule proposing the development of a card-format passport for international travel by U.S. citizens through land and sea ports of entry between the United States, Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean, and Bermuda.

The limited-use passport card will be adjudicated to the same standards as a traditional passport book. The rule published today proposes a wallet-sized card that would cost $10 for children and $20 for adults, plus a $25 execution fee.

To facilitate the frequent travel of those living in U.S. border communities and those traveling on commercial maritime vessels, the Department of State has committed to producing a passport card that incorporates cutting-edge technology. The technology incorporated in the proposed card was designed in coordination with DHS specifically to address the operational needs of land border-crossings. The proposed passport card would use long-range, or vicinity, radio frequency identification (RFID) technology to link the card to a secure U.S. government database containing biographical data and a photograph. The card itself will not contain any personal information, and DHS will implement protections to keep the database secure.

The passport card is the core element of the PASS (People Access Security Service) System announced by Secretaries Rice and Chertoff in January 2006, and will secure and expedite travel to and from the United States.

The proposed rule is available for public viewing and comment at www.regulations.gov.

Rather more reasonable price, say for a family of 5.

you jumped into a discussion about that very issue.

I do not believe it is unreasonable for any country to require its visitors to have a passport. Do you know of many other countries that allow it?

I asked you because
you jumped into a discussion about that very issue.

Well, I guess you must have been reading those things I can never see, presumably because I have never figured out where some people buy their funny spectacles.

I reread the post that began this thread, and saw nothing at all about "that very issue".

I reread the post to which I first replied, and saw nothing at all about "that very issue". What I saw was a debunking of some stupid tale about "the Canadians" not wanting poor tourists. (Btw, I am always very careful to say "the U.S." when I am talking about the state/government, and not, e.g., "the Americans" -- "the Americans killed 100 Iraqis today"? nope -- and I appreciate the same courtesy.)

{on edit: oh, and in that first post of mine, I addressed the actual issue raised in the opening post: the time and hassle involved in getting a passport, which are being experienced in Canada as well.}

I just don't see what you see, I guess.

I do not believe it is unreasonable for any country to require its visitors to have a passport. Do you know of many other countries that allow it?

Yeah. Canada and the U.S., for each others' nationals, until this year. Duh.

"Are there other countries besides US and Canada...?"

"Yes, US and Canada. DUH!"


Please... try to keep up.

show came over from Canada (he's the "tater salad" guy, not the "git-er done" one).

You tell that family of seven in Houlton Maine who don't have a spare seven hundred bucks to visit Grandma who lives two feet over the border that, why doncha? Apparently you don't realize how many people on our northern AND southern borders have family "just over the line."

I'm amazed at the lack of understanding for those in our nation who actually do live paycheck to paycheck, mired in debt. A 'mere' ninety seven bucks IS actually out of reach for some people.

and now you're backtracking horribly.

You originally posited that it was an attempt to close the borders. Then it was an attempt to fuck with the poor.

The fact remains, that a US passport is cheaper than many other countries, we don't charge an exit fee, one doesn't need a visa to visit Canada, etc. etc.

Is it your position that ANY fee for a passport is "closing the borders"?

It will impact the people in border towns, many of which are rural and poor.

And one more time. You need to learn to READ. I did NOT "posit" that it was an attempt to close the borders. I asked the fucking question. Big difference. Despite that, you ASSumed, didn't you? You've a talent in that regard, apparently.

The fact also remains that a US passport is more expensive than many other countries, too. So fucking what? If you don't have the money for it, it does not matter if it's a hundred bucks or a thousand.

My position is this--we've not needed passports to visit Canada since the country was fucking FOUNDED. Now, your dear passport-requiring friend Bush takes power, and suddenly, we can't see our friends to the north without paying a fee to the government for the privlege.

And this makes "you" safer....HOW?

Papers....let me see your papers!!!

or do these folk think it's okay when their car is hit by an unlicensed/uninsured motorist

jeez

it's the modern world, people need paperwork, but the usa passport for all its imperfections is one of the great bargains of the world

...but now it's "one of the great BARGAINS of the world???"

:rofl:

That's just ABSURD.

ABSURD.

It has long been a tradition for people with relatives on either side to visit with one another. Also people travel to Mexico for cheap meds, cheap dental work, cheap thrills, whatever. And since many of these people are not wealthy, the cost of a passport is out of the question.

people going to mexico for dental work and prescription are not the poor, they are the middle class, how do i know, because i've done it and my family and friends have done it

the cost of the passport did not affect our decision either way because of course all of us already had passports

poor people don't go to tijuana for dental work, they don't get dental work done at all

didn't SAY that the people doing this travelling are "poor"; s/he said they are "not wealthy".

Nice try, but pretty much a waste of a post number.

Go to the mall at Presque Isle, ME and count the NB license plates. Do the same for the Maine license plates at the Canadian Tire in Grand Falls, NB. The 'funniest thing' in actual fact is that you're not understanding what is obvious to anyone who's spent time near our nation's borders and who know that crossing is as common as going down the road for many, many people.

Maine license plates at the Canadian Tire in Grand Falls, NB

Somebody's afraid that that Canadian Tire money is going to make it into the US money stream and subvert the currency ... after all, one funny-coloured bill is like another.



That's from ccadp.org, the Canadian Coalition Against the Death Penalty, which accepts it as donations, and has no good to say about George W. Bush. ;)

the poor do not travel any distance from where they were born, we have people in the suburbs of new orleans such as jefferson parish, a few miles away, who had never seen the mississippi river or the french quarter until their high school field trip -- one of the reasons that the post-katrina diaspora was so traumatic to poor people was because so many of them had never been fuck-all anywhere past a few blocks radius and they had no idea the rest of the world, even texas, existed -- international travel only happens for poor people if they join the armed forces

people who travel across international borders should have proof that they are who they say they are -- people who can afford to travel across international borders and who have such things as automobiles and the ability to buy cruises and air tickets are NOT poor

as for the mythical family of seven who lives half on one border and half on the other border, fine, you may pass the hat to donate to pay for their applications, or you may contact your reps to request discounted passport fees based on family income but these people must still have the proper travel documents -- at the end of the day -- if you can't prove who you are and what nationality you are, you don't have any business crossing an international border

sheesh, do you care about this country at all? we'd all say we were poor and not bother with the documents if all you had to do was poormouth to get out of it

fair is fair, every middle class person has to have the proper documents to travel, why are the "poor" suddenly exempt -- because it wouldn't be the "poor" using such a loophole, the poor would stay home (price of gas guarantees that) -- it is criminals and terrorists who would be happy to travel along undocumented


yeah, i realize we all think we are poor and don't want to pay for a passport, but give it a rest, if it's important for you to travel, cut back on the drinks in the departure lounge and just pay for the passport already, it isn't like it's all that unreasonably priced for a document that lasts 10 freakin' years

what's next, poor people get to drive w.out license and insurance too?

Got google maps? Ask for Calais, Maine, and zoom in as close as you can with satellite/hybrid image. Too bad it's not as close as it could be. But I'm not sure how you'd distinguish Calais, Maine / St. Stephen, New Brunswick from any other small town that a river runs through, without that Canada / United States line drawn through the river. And that's pretty much how it has always functioned. I've been there. Have you?

Try the same for Port Huron, Michigan / Sarnia, Ontario. I was visiting a friend in Sarnia one weekend, and we drove across the bridge for dinner, since Sarnia was lacking much worth eating, at that time. My family and I lived an hour from there when I was a kid, and we picnicked in a park on the river on the US side every fall, and sometimes visited cousins near Detroit. When my parents were retired, before my dad died, they drove over to Port Huron and the surrounding area several times in a summer, to shop the antique malls and such.

Occasionally, I've got bored with the long Montreal-Toronto stretch of the 401 highway, and crossed over to drive on the US side for a couple of hours, stopping for lunch, just for a diversion. In the summer in southern Ontario, the US licence plates are thick and heavy on the 401.

Cross-border shopping dates back to before the War of 1812, and continued during that war without breaking stride. Along the St Lawrence River, as soon as the river froze, people just continued their trading back and forth.

Have YOU ever visited one of these border towns? I have, several, up and down the St Lawrence Seaway. Others who seem to know what they're talking about here have, too. There is no "departure lounge". There are people whose way of life, historically, has included visits to the neighbour for a whole range of everyday, commonplace activities.

Yes, passports for a family of 5 might not mean not paying the rent, for many families. It might very well mean not crossing the border for that family vacation or day trip, though, because it is simply an expense without a return.

And whose interests is that it in? How is it in either country's interests for the cross-border economy to be disrupted, and for people who might have broadened their perspective a tiny bit through one-time or regular contact with the other to turn inward?

What thread to U.S. security has EVER come from this side of the border?

Pick up a copy of the Houlton Pioneer Times. Turn to the obituaries, and read the family connections of the deceased. Read about the monthly meeting of the Red Hat ladies, who take turns hosting their little get-togethers on either side of the border.

There are Mi'kmac and Maliseet native peoples who live on both sides of the border, too, and yes, they're POOR. They can't "cut back on drinks in the departure lounge" (what an ignorant remark,that) because some of them cross the border on FOOT to visit family.

Schools in Maine and other US states play sports against Canadian schools routinely. These kids are now going to have to get passports to go play hockey after school?

What you plainly don't understand, in response to that rather absurd "the poor do not travel any distance from where they were born" comment, is that people who live in border towns aren't "TRAVELLING"--they're going down the street. It's just that visiting "down the street" is now a huge drill.

You're just not demonstrating any capacity for empathy or any understanding of this issue at all. You are speaking from a complete absence of knowledge of how this change is actually affecting the lives of people. This situation doesn't affect you personally, ergo you think it's no big deal.

I can't figure out why you're so happy that yet another, brand new, fear-inducing, onerous BushCo requirement (that won't stop a terrorist from sneaking over the border and avoiding the border guards entirely) is being visited upon our population. You're aggressively derisive to anyone who finds this change in law absurd, too.

I find that really unusual.

whether they are likely to or not. Some utilitarian arguments are inapplicable where a basic human rights question lies underneath.

If there is a possibility for a fee waiver, OK, but if not "you couldn't afford to travel anyway" does not cut it.

Besides, international travel could take plenty of forms, you are only seeing the middle class Ten-Countries-of-Europe-in-Seven-Days version.

my family took trips to Canada for summer vacation. Both times, my mother took our birth certificates. I don't remember her showing her driver's license--but back then there were no photos on them. I know it was hard to get some sort of certificate for Grandma, because she had been born before they were issued--I think we were able to get one because an uncle of hers who was still alive could testify that he was there when she was born. I thought you were SUPPOSED to bring a birth certificate when you crossed the border. I do think it is a shame that you will now have to have a passport, mainly because of the expense of getting one. Seems to me this will be a damper on people with lots of kids who want to cross the Rainbow Bridge to see Niagara Falls from the Canadian side.

to the capital in Juneau, but since most people fly down there anyway, I guess it's not that big a deal. It just used to be so much easier.

photo ID (such as a driver's license, state ID or an ABC --Alcohol Beverages Commission-- card).

In Maine, a state ID card costs five bucks. That's a helluva lot cheaper than a hundred bucks, which, by the time you get done with the photos and mailing fees and obtaining the certified birth certificate and so on, is, at the very least, the cost of the passport.

I have a passport, have for yrs since it is a good ID, though some places look askance (why would you need one?). I do not see that making people pay $100 for a passport defends our nation's borders, rather it stops those who cannot afford it from passing. Make it more affordable.

That's what we're supposed to think... but as corporations treat such people like cargo, I doubt it'll make any real difference.

I applied the first of February to renew my passport and just received it, finally, this week!

I applied for renewal in the second week of March and still don't have mine back, even though the State Department cashed my check. (Condi can't go without shoes, now can she?)

I was starting to imagine all sorts of ominous scenarios, I must confess. It's a relief to know that my wait has been typical.

...as we were assured by the clerk at the Post Office that 12 weeks was well over the eight-week maximum processing time (at the time of our application on March 3rd!) and we would be fine. Another lesson learned...

even under normal conditions. With all the new regs? Your advice is well founded.

People who think they can get a passport in a month, think again, esp. for a first passport. Hell, I had mine redone because of a name change in 2006, I sent in the passport FedEx, and it STILL took them about 8 weeks to turn it around. I was starting to shit bullets, but I finally received it about a month before I left the country.

Hope you get yours soon!!! :hi:

:(

They still had to take a trip to Houston. Didn't help a bit.

And it didn't come for three whole months. So.........

:)

i hate to pay extra for anything and i loved being able to get passport at the post office but when it comes up for renewal this time i will pay the extra for the 24 hour service, i can't have my passport missing in action for 3 or 4 months, my schedule never allows for this

also, people, be aware that many countries will not admit you if your passport is going to expire within six months, this means your passport may say that it doesn't expire until october 2007 but the other country might not let you in because they feel it's "too close" to the expiration date, in those cases, you need to go ahead and renew your passport what seems like "early" to you

in other words, you don't really get the full 10 years out of it :-(

But some have reported that their applications went into the same pile as the normal applications,
even though they paid for "expedited" service.

My wife got hers "normally," and it only took about 6-8 weeks, don't recall exactly. We ordered my son's "Expedited," and in two weeks they got back to us saying they needed more documentation, even though they had birth certificate, and everything else required. It took another week after that. Wife and kid's were both done this year, but mine was nearly six years ago. I haven't experienced any of the horror stories being related here. Not to say they don't happen, but just be sure to get that paperwork in order!

.

This was in 2006 for a trip leaving Jan 07 to Germany. She waited 4 months and then called the 800# she was given. She was told she could pay extra for expedited so she put it on the credit card. nearly 2 months and 4 calls later, still no Passport. 2 weeks prior to leaving she gave up trying to work with the State Dept and called a lawyer that handles immigration cases. Somehow he made it happen and didn't charge her anything for the 3 phone calls he made. She got the passport in the mail 3 days before the trip.

Who'd think a born in the USA citizen would have need of an immigration lawyer. :)

Based on that experience I'd say even with expedited it's best to start at least 3-4 months in advance of when you need the new passport -- meaning you'll want to start a year to 9 months before your passport expires to make sure the country you are going to will take it. (someone mentioned that some countries won't honor a passport that expires in 6 months or less and that is true)

if you travel frequently on a regular (skinny) passport. Frequent travellers should get the 48-page version - at no extra charge.

I work in the travel industry. A man I talked with yesterday paid for expedite service, 12 weeks ago, and still did not receive his passport. He had to cancel his international trip.

Yes, you read that correctly: 12 weeks, and still no passport!

dedicated Fascists

And it was 9 and 1/2 weeks later that they arrived.
We used then last week to drive to Canada, didn't need them to get it, just to get back into the US. One lady we talked to in Canada was grousing about the fact THEY have to get passports too, and theirs are only valid for 5 years, evidently. I commiserated with her, she is a shopkeeper and is losing business from the Americans who aren't coming up any more, and if she wants to travel down here she has to go through the hassle and expense of a passport herself.
On the other hand the new passports have an RFID chip in them in the back cover so they just swiped them through their reader as we came back across the border, no problem, and our passenger only had her state ID card which worked too, but not in the reader.

Bruce

besides a birth certificate? I've never applied for a passport, so I don't know. My husband has an expired one--does he have to show the same documentation I do if he wishes to renew?

Here's the link: http://travel.state.gov/passport/passport_1738.html

I'm thinking about getting one myself, in case something should force me to leave the country.

You need to fill out a form, which you can get online (google up US passports) or at the post office. You need a certified copy of your birth certificate and a valid photo ID (drivers license). Also, you need two of the same photos for your passport, which you can have done at nearly any RiteAid or Walgreens or even some post offices. Then you get to stand in the passport line at the post office and the person goes through your application to make sure you've filled it out correctly and you have to raise your right hand and swear you've told the truth about your application, blah blah blah, pay the fee and wait for it to arrive.

For your husband, if his passport was issued more than 15 years ago, I think he has to apply in person. But if it was issued within the last 15 years and is currently expired, he can probably fill out the short form and send it in. The US passport page goes through all that. He still has to provide recent photos, but doesn't have to send his birth certificate in again. Just the fee, form and $. It is supposed to take less time to process than a new passport.

http://travel.state.gov/passport/passport_1738.html



A special page for first timers that covers all the acceptable forms of ID -- http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_832.html

Hope I never have to use it, but if worse comes to worse, I'm heading north to seek political asylum. Hope instead I can hide out here or in the Choctaw Nation.

before our dubya, the canadian dollar was 0.6 to the american dollar, now they are about even, it is stupid now to go to canada to shop, you are paying the travel expenses and don't save any money

nothing to do w. the passport situation and everything to do w. the stupid-ass "soft dollar" policy of our fearless leader

which is, or was, a great enticer for Canadians to come down to the US to spend their money. But if they're going to get hassled at the border, or pay hundreds of dollars for a family to get passports when they weren't needed before, then a lot of Canadians will probably say to hell with it.

And border towns like Blaine and Port Roberts, Washington (not to mention Bellis Fair Mall in Bellingham, Washington), will probably be hurting big time from the new rules.

depending on where you live, it is CLOSER to shop in Canada than the US for some items. We aren't talking a grand journey here, we're talking about driving down the road a half mile or so.

I'm traveling to Spain next month, and I applied on February 22nd.

But then, I strongly believe everybody should have one, whether they think they're ever going to travel overseas or not. You never know...

And yeah, the $100 fee works out to only $10 a year. It's really not a bad deal.

I called to check on my daughter's passport. She had applied 10 weeks prior to her departure date.....I was only on hold for 9 minutes, and a very helpful young man expedited her passport and she was able to leave on time. I strongly suggest you follow the advice on the State Department's website and call. They will help you, since it is less than two weeks until your departure.

Another suggestion: My brother's wife and their children applied for one in January to travel in April. They received their passports four days before departure. When they called to enquire, the passport people said that they had listed a departure date, so they would receive the passport close to, but prior to, that date.

So.... lie about when you are traveling! :) (It works for brides when ordering dresses for their weddings!) Fudge the dates by a month or so, so that you receive the passport sooner. Or order one now, even if you don't plan on traveling soon. It's always a good document to have in hand in case of emergencies or last minute fun trips!

When I got mine renewed last year (my friend was getting married in Mexico), I had mine expedited. I think it's $120 to do so (though it costs something like $65 to renew it anyhow). I received my new passport in only 12 days. The expediting may not be so quick now, but it's another option to get it sooner.

Good luck!

I'm leaving for Canada tomorrow. Hope I can get back in, if not, well it was nice knowing ya!

You look like the person on the passport better than anyone else, and the passport certainly isn't a forgery, not that RFID's can't be duplicated this process is still pretty new and hasn't been hacked very much yet(I hope). The border guards know they've got you on file, so why bother you?
Looks are very important, a young bearded guy I know ALWAYS gets searched, or at least more than I ever have but I'm 60 years old, and our Aerostar isn't as provocative as his Toyota 4X4 truck. He LOOKS like he might be a problem and doesn't have a passport, yet.
WITH the passport you got the best ID you could ask for.
Happy traveling, only 25% of Americans are expected to get passports. Gonna hurt the Canadians, for sure.

Bruce

in anticipation of this madhouse. . .and I'm glad I did. . .

at the post office after filling out the pdf's from State and the post office processed them on 12/27/05, we both had them in 4 weeks. My sister on the other hand needed hers renewed, she applied this January and she still hasn't gotten hers back yet.

It's COVERED (all inside pages) with "Americana". Whatever visas aren't likely visible. Yes, it now takes 8 to 10 weeks. Friends of mine are naturalized. Their USC document is OLD, torn. They gotta get a new one FIRST ($220), THEN apply for the passport ($97).

*******QUOTE*******

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/29/weekinreview/29macfa....

The New Passport
Stars and Stripes, Wrapped in the Same Old Blue

By NEIL MacFARQUHAR
SAN FRANCISCO

WHEN I went to collect my newly minted American passport, I discovered that it came with a radically altered design that included sheaves of wheat, the rather large head of a bald eagle plus the flag wrapped around my picture. And that was just one page... When Americans do open their new passports, they’ll see a document strikingly different from the old booklet. By July, all applicants will get the new design, with the State Department expecting to issue a record 17 million passports this year, up from last year’s record of 12 million.

The new passport, in the works for about six years, incorporates the first complete redesign since 1993. Given new international standards for post-9/11 high-tech security features, which transform the document into an “E-passport,” the State Department decided it was time for something completely different. The new passport comes with its own name: “American Icon.” It’s hard to think of one that was left out.

The inside cover sports an engraving of the battle scene that inspired “The Star Spangled Banner.” A couple of lines of the anthem, starting with, “O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave,” are scrawled in what the State Department says is Francis Scott Key’s own cursive. The short, 28-page version of the passport comes with 13 inspirational quotes, including six from United States presidents and one from a Mohawk Thanksgiving speech. The pages, done in a pink-grey-blue palate, are rife with portraits of Americana ranging from a clipper ship to Mount Rushmore to a long-horn cattle drive... “We thought it really, truly reflects the breadth of America as well as the history,” said Ann Barrett, deputy assistant secretary of state for passport services. “We tried to be inclusive of all Americans.”... We think it is a beautiful document as well as the most secure,” Ms. Barrett said. “It’s a work of art.”

Professional designers shown the passport to critique mentioned art as well. “It is like being given a coloring book that your brother already colored in,” said Michael Bierut, of the design firm Pentagram in New York City. A passport, not unlike a scrapbook, gets its allure from gradually accruing exotic stamps, with the blank pages holding the promise of future adventure, he and other designers said. But they find that the new jumble of pictures detracts from that. “There is also something a little coercive about a functional object serving as a civics lesson, even a fairly low-grade civics lesson,” Mr. Bierut said...

The new passport was developed by a six-member committee from the State Department and the Government Printing Office, with then-Secretary of State Colin Powell approving the final icon theme.

********UNQUOTE*******

:rofl: :rofl:

That's hysterical. The BushCo "Bad Taste Brigade" strikes yet AGAIN!!!!!

I agree completely with the "coercive" comments as well.

Had this conversation today with a coworker. They applied well in advance of their trip and after 10 weeks there was no passport.
They had to go to Houston to the passport processing center and said that there were HUNDREDS of people there to get their passports. There were people who had flown in from other states for emergent processing.
They had to show their itinerary and their passports were processed while they waited.
It is a fucked up situation for sure.

..of these failed rethug policies and changes.

working full-time over the next 8 years to undo the shit that has gone on these past 6 1/2 years.

I'm glad I got mine renewed a year and a half ago. I'm applying for permanent residency here and even naturalization is becoming a tempting option.

Do you "look the part?" as it were? This guy http://www.debito.org/residentspage.html is a citizen, and he's documented some interesting "issues of nationality and discrimination." It's a fascinating website, in any event.

I repect a lot of what he's doing in terms of challenging discrimination here (discrimination against foreigners is just the tip of the iceberg).

I'm pretty different from him in that I am not trying to assimilate. I'm very fluent in the language and have been here on and off for 12 years, but I don't care for people who adopt Japanese mannerisms, and in "Debito's" case, actually have their name legally changed to Chinese characters. I am an American, and no matter how I might emulate the locals, (and no matter how they might fawn over me for it), it would be an act, like a trained dog, and would only be feeding into the Japanese tendency to stereotype and view foreigners as one-dimensional movie characters or silly TV "tarento".

I think multiculturalism in the US has been a good thing. I think that immigrants and ethnic minorities holding on to their cultural identities is one of the greatest thing about the United States. So many colors, flavors, textures and smells!

Besides, no amount of shucking and jiving will make me blend in with the crowd, so some people will always treat me differently. Mostly it's benign "WOW, you can use chopsticks!", or just the assumption that I can't speak the language. In 12 years, I've only had one incident where I was REALLY discriminated against. A friend and I went to a bar in Saga prefecture, and the owner tried to turn us away. I was happy to leave, not wanting to give my money to someone who didn't want me there, but my friend got livid and made a big stink until they agreed to serve us.

Where we live is a pretty big city and fairly international, so we have few of those problems. The worst problems are in the north, where encounters with boorish Russian sailors have made the locals intolerant of all foreigners, and to a lesser degree, in Okinawa, where many people still like Americans, but the tendency of US soldiers/sailors to drive drunk, steal, and rape underage Japanese girls is trying their patience.


Wow, where did that come from? Didn't plan on such a long-winded reply...

to converse--I've forgotten most of it now, but every so often an old brain cell will fire off and I'll recall words and phrases I thought were long gone. I didn't get up to the mainland much, maybe a few dozen times (in four years) on quick visits, and I do recall a few discriminatory incidents. They didn't phase me, though, because where I lived, the people were most kind. Unfortunately, all of that old goodwill looks like it's gone--the Okinawans are no longer welcoming to Americans; there have been too many instances of US 'bad behavior' and of course, governmental policy isn't helping either.

When I lived there, the local paper had a survey asking the question "Who do you want your daughter to marry?" There were three choices, and the order of preference came in like this: First, an Okinawan, Second, An American, Third, A Mainland Japanese. And last place in that survey was a DISTANT last place--the Okinawans really didn't care for the mainlanders; they felt that they looked down on them and made fun of them as if they were bumpkins and fools. Times sure do change!

I had simiilar experiences in Cuba years ago. I travelled independently when I visited, staying in hotels I booked myself or with friends, whereas virtually all other visitors were in groups on packages.

At a big but secondary hotel in Havana not used to having North Americans around, my friend and I were constantly being shunted aside for the big pale Russians. One day we hit the dining room for lunch, and were told we would have to wait until the Russians were done. Thing was, the Russians weren't even there yet; the room was totally empty. So I summoned up the very little Spanish I had just begun to teach myself at that point, and said: The Russians are guests here. We are guests here. Why do we have to wait for the Russians? The waiter pondered a moment, and said, basically: Good point. And gave us a table.

I was often taken for a Russian at first encounter. Since I remembered about as much Russian at that point as I had learned Spanish, I managed to confuse African students (distinguishable as African because they wore their shirts tucked in) who initiated contact me in Russian and were met with "I don't understand Russian, I'm Canadian" ... in Russian. We usually managed to switch to French to communicate. Of course, it also confused Cubans who asked whether I was a "norte americana" (they're "Americans" too!) and I said yes, I was Canadian (I'm a "North American" too!).

A close friend of mine -- a short, curvy, blonde, Jewish anglo-Canadian -- lives permanently in Japan with her tall, skinny Japanese husband. She is a runt here, but feels elephantine there (and is treated as such), and comes home to buy her underwear. She teaches English at university, and pushes the cultural exchange aspect, rather than trying to assimilate, too.

Anyhow -- I like your approach. Being who one is, and a member of one's own culture, is important to every individual, and a birthright. Like you with the US, I'm a fan of Canadian multiculturalism.

Cuba must have been quite the place to visit. I'd love to see it sometime--who knows when that will happen? By the time we're free to go, it probably won't be affordable...

Another reason I enjoy this site is for the amusing anecdotes. After all, where else can one hear tales of short, curvy, blonde, Jewish, anglo-Canadians trotting home from Japan to buy their underwear!

Edit: dreaded typo!

is that while I commonly find my own writing unbearably witty, and my anecdotes utterly fascinating, I just as commonly find replies to them even funnier. ;)

I thought Bush was supposed to appoint good managers to these posts?

Is that they will not bend, at all, on any requirement they have, no matter how much effect it has on the people involved. Well, maybe if you are lily white, but if you are anything else, the requirements will be applied to the letter even if your reasons for travel are emergent.

They will also dump as much of the expense and the work onto the applicant as they can. Why should they have to work for the salaries they get paid?

There is no where else you can go for this particular thing, they know it, and play it for all it's worth. Nothing like power to make a petty bureaucrat of the right wing Chimpadministration happy.