Hagel: Repub Meeting With Bush Is 'Just The Tip Of The Iceberg' Of Conservative Dissent

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/13/hagel-iceberg

Hagel: Republican Meeting With Bush Is ‘Just The Tip Of The Iceberg’ Of Conservative Dissent

Last week, a group of 11 congressional Republicans met with President Bush to express their frustration with the state of the Iraq war, pleading with Bush to change his unpopular Iraq policy.

Today, Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE) said, “The 11 House Republicans who went to see him speak for more than just 11 House Republicans. That’s just the tip of the iceberg.” Hagel said that president “may find himself standing alone sometime this fall,” noting that several conservatives are beginning to back “trap doors and exit signs” to withdraw U.S. troops from Iraq.

Watch it: VIDEO AT LINK

Hagel’s comments undermine the spin of top conservative leaders like House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH), who last week said “House Republicans are united in support” of Bush’s stay-the-course Iraq policy.

Transcript:


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If Hagel goes Ross Perot on us, things will get really interesting.

He's OK on the war, but not anything else.

--IMM

I do not agree with most of his views, but I think we should learn to respect our differences when those we disagree with are respectable people. And yes, I think Hagel definitely qualifies as such.

definitely conservative, but not a nut, and he has a history of putting his country before his party, so I respect him for that.

He is against us on everything: human rights, women's rights, corporatism, trade, social security, environment, you name it. He gets 100% rating from Christian Coalition. He may be kind to animals, but he shouldn't be in public office.

--IMM

Environment-wise, he is a global warming believer, but voted for ANWR drilling and I think he drafted the Kyoto resolution that shot down the Kyoto deal in the Senate--he was concerned about how it would affect trade, was my understanding. (A lot of other Senators shot it down, too, though.) Human rights, women's rights--standard issue GOPer, although he thinks Gitmo/secret prisons/torture are bad news. Voted FOR the Medicare drug price negotiation bill. He's definitely a "shades of gray" guy. His foreign policy views are very common sense and progressive, which I'd be comfortable with, so in terms of that, if our nominee lost and a GOPer HAD to win the WH (God forbid another 4-8 years), I hope it's him. I just don't think it will happen, though. I don't think the nation is trending conservative.

I checked out some things, and maybe he's not as bad as I thought. I think he is more attractive (and acceptable) than any of the other Republican candidates, so I'm glad he's not running (at least as a Republican.)

--IMM

... thoughtful and intelligent one. And NOT a fanatic. From what I read, he seems to respect differences of oppinion. This is a huge plus in my book. As to your comment about being glad that Hagel is not running as a republican, I 100% agree. I like and respct him, but I would very much prefer a dem in the WH, preferably one that I can also like and respct, but let's not get there :-). If the republicans had any common sense, they would realize that he is their only decent chance at keeping the WH, but fortunately the establishment at least is beautifully lacking in the afore mentioned common sense, and he is being vilified and considered a pariah as far as I know.

--IMM

owning part of the corporation that manufactured the voting machines.

Yep, sounds just like the kind of guy who we need to put in the White House to me. :sarcasm:

about the guy that says he's capable of such an extremely serious crime, and it would have to have been such a big secret for ES&S employees, Republican officials, etc, to have kept for this long, it absolutely strains credulity. Hagel has enemies--someone would have come forward about this by now. Nelson would have raised a stink, and never did. Matulka was the only one to charge it, and c'mon--there was no way he was going to unseat Hagel in 2002. No proof, nothing--just speculation, after 11 years in the Senate. So unless evidence emerges, or a dishonest pattern of conduct on his part emerges, I chalk it up to rumor.

maybe you can explain why he conveniently 'forgot' to report his connection to ES&S, the evoting machines that just so happened to be the machines that counted 60% of the votes during his UPSET VICTORY? No ES&S employees would have had to be involved. He could have hired a hacker and VOILA! Election's his.

Senator Hagel Admits Owning Voting Machine Company
Friday, 31 January 2003, 10:13 am
Article: Talion.com
BREAKING NEWS: Senate Ethics Director Resigns; Senator Hagel Admits Owning Voting Machine Company

By Bev Harris

U.S. CHUCK HAGEL NOW ADMITS OWNERSHIP IN VOTING MACHINE COMPANY SENATE ETHICS COMMITTEE DIRECTOR RESIGNS

“Hagel’s ethics filings pose disclosure issue” -- “The Hill” 1/29/2003

On October, 10, 2002 Bev Harris, author of the upcoming “Black Box Voting: Ballot-Tampering” in the 21st Century, revealed that Republican Senator Chuck Hagel has ties to the largest voting machine company, Election Systems & Software (ES&S). She reported that he was an owner, Chairman and CEO of Election Systems & Software (called American Information Systems until name change filed in 1997). ES&S was the ONLY company whose machines counted Hagel’s votes when he ran for election in 1996 and 2002. The Hill, a Washington D.C. newspaper that covers the U.S. national political scene, confirmed her findings today and uncovered more details.
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Hagel’s campaign finance director, Michael McCarthy, now admits that Senator Hagel still owns a beneficial interest in the ES&S parent company, the McCarthy Group. ES&S counts approximately 60 percent of all votes cast in the United States. According to the Omaha World-Herald which is also a beneficial owner of ES&S, Hagel was CEO of American Information Systems, now called ES&S, from November 1993 through June 2, 1994. He was Chairman from July 1992 until March 15 1995. He was required to disclose these positions on his FEC Personal Disclosure statements, but he did not.

Hagel still owns up to $5 million in the ES&S parent company, McCarthy Group. But Hagel’s office, when interviewed by Channel 8 News in Lincoln, Nebraska for the evening news on October 22, 2002, said he had sold his shares before he was elected. His office issued a fact sheet claiming that he had made full disclosure.

Last week, Hagel’s campaign finance director, Michael McCarthy (currently an owner and a director of ES&S) admitted to Alexander Bolton of The Hill that Hagel is still an owner of ES&S parent company, the McCarthy Group, and said that Hagel also had owned shares in AIS Investors Inc., a group of investors in ES&S itself. Yet Hagel did not disclose owning or selling shares in AIS Investors Inc. on his FEC documents, a required disclosure, nor did he disclose that ES&S is an underlying asset of McCarthy Group, in which he lists an investment of up to $5 million in 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, and 2001. <snip>

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0301/S00166.htm

admits that she doesn't think there was any wrongdoing on his part--she was using his case as an example of how easily an election with paperless ballots can be tampered with. Hagel owns shares in a company (McCarthy) that is part owner of ES&S--that's a pretty loose tie to ES&S, and he's denied having anything to do with them in terms of operations, so unless someone can prove that he fixed the machines, it's an unsubstantiated rumor and nothing more. I have yet to meet a Nebraskan who cares or is even aware of this--that tells you how little credence anyone here gives this story--besides Charlie Matulka.

weren't the ESS machines used in Nebraska scanners, rather than touch screens? Do you happen to know if I remember this correctly? I may be completely off on this...

He never won and election before, he was behind in the polls.

Whatever, just his dishonesty and deceit about ES&S is enough to show the man's a cheesy liar.

company, so whether it was oversight or deliberate, my understanding was that he got spanked for it, and that was that. Everything beyond that is rumor and speculation. Makes a good story though--it's almost too rich to resist, a politician who has ties to a voting machine company. You can't make this stuff up, I tell ya.

but from everything I have read, this is an accusation that does not have much "meat". There is info about this in various articles and such, sorry but I do not remember the details nor can I provide links off the top of my head. I do not think it is fair to have him judged based on unsunstantiated rumors. Apologies if I sound like a Hagel supporter, I am not, I just think he is an interesting voice and I agree with one of the points he made this morning about Washington being WAY TOO polarized, a point by the way similar to what Obama said in his interview with Stephanopoulos, also this morning. If he tries for the big ticket, with Bloomberg or in some other combination, I will follow with interest, but I doubt he has much of a chance. I would on the other hand prefer of he kept his Senate seat. A sane and intelligent voice of the opposition is a good thing, and the way things look right now at least, we will probably have a reasonably safe majority in the Senate, even with his seat staying in Republican hands (hopefully his, and not one of his possible challengers). Who do you respect more, Hagel or his esteemed colleague Ben Nelson?

I watched a speech and answer session by Bloomberg some months back on CSPAN. I was amazed by his grasp of the situation in Iraq re: the differences between the Shiite, Sunnie, and Kurdish tribes there in a historical sense. Very in depth and intelligent, I found him refreshingly informed and so vastly different from the rubber stampers out in the pubbie political scene.
It would be amusing to watch the GOP gets torn more in half if they were to do this.

of course if he bites into the GOP base too much, he might get the George Wallace spoiler treatment from the people behind the scenes.

the only things that will change by September are the dead and wounded count.

He could very well split the Republican vote, especially if Guiliani wins the nomination. That would be such sweet revenge.

Read Hagel's issues page and be afraid.

if they would kick the "neo" out of conservative, once and for all time.

:kick:

Yep, here it is... same script, different movie

That statement was quite poetic and fun to repeat:

"The president may find himself standing alone sometime this fall..."

:)

My money is on Hagel. However, will the CON primary voters go him? Big if.

He's very well spoken and serious, almost too serious at times. Don't underestimate his appeal.

actual substance and grasp of the issues. He could mess us up, if we don't pick the right nominee.

This ain't nothin' but horseshit.

have Repigs run as supposed "true conservatives" and possibly even equate Bush's failures with liberalism

:rofl: