Arab guilty of rape after consensual sex with Jew

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/21/arab-guilty-rape-consensual-sex-jew

An Israeli man of Arab origin has been convicted of rape after having consensual sex with a woman who had believed him to be a fellow Jew.

Sabbar Kashur, 30, was sentenced to 18 months in prison on Monday after the court ruled that he was guilty of rape by deception. According to the complaint filed by the woman with the Jerusalem district court, the two met in downtown Jerusalem in September 2008 where Kashur, an Arab from East Jerusalem, introduced himself as a Jewish bachelor seeking a serious relationship. The two then had consensual sex in a nearby building before Kashur left.

When she later found out that he was not Jewish but an Arab, she filed a criminal complaint for rape and indecent assault.

Although Kashur was initially charged with rape and indecent assault, this was changed to a charge of rape by deception as part of a plea bargain arrangement.

Handing down the verdict, Tzvi Segal, one of three judges on the case, acknowledged that sex had been consensual but said that although not "a classical rape by force," the woman would not have consented if she had not believed Kashur was Jewish.

The sex therefore was obtained under false pretences, the judges said. "If she hadn't thought the accused was a Jewish bachelor interested in a serious romantic relationship, she would not have cooperated," they added.

Read more at link...http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/21/arab-guilty-rape-consensual-sex-jew

:rofl::hi:

AFTER I STOP LAUGHING :rofl:

:rofl:

Wrong on so many levels, but funny. :rofl:
:hi:

Obtaining sex under false pretenses. There wouldn't be enough people left on the outside to be our guards.

I notice quite a few people here pretend who they are in order to get further in a relationship.

"A Hampden County man who allegedly tricked his brother's girlfriend into having sex with him by impersonating his sibling in the middle of the night cannot be convicted of rape, the state's highest court ruled yesterday in a controversial decision that affirms the court's long-held view that sex obtained through fraud is no crime."
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/05/11/court_rules_sex_through_use_of_fraud_is_not_rape/

As it should be.

"The Supreme Judicial Court unanimously ruled that a judge should have dismissed the rape charge against Alvin Suliveres , 44, of Westfield, because Massachusetts law has for centuries defined rape as sexual intercourse by force and against one's will, and that it is not rape when consent is obtained through fraud.

If the Legislature wants to make sex through fraud qualify as rape, it should follow the lead of several other states -- including Alabama, California, Michigan, and Tennessee -- and change the law, the court said."

The court didn't say that sex via fraud could never be illegal rather than MA statute on rape clearly defines it as using FORCE not deception. Thus the charge of rape for what the guy did (although utterly disgusting) was not applicable.

Looks like some states (CA, MI, TN, AL at a minimum) have defined rape such that it includes both deception and force.

..that would be rape?

Gimme a break..the singles scene would shut down overnight if that were the case..

than pretending to hold different religious beliefs

or pretending to be younger

or richer

or blond

or single

etc.

several forms of it actually

Here's a link to it: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8783279&mesg_id=8783587

Heres a lin to it:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/05/11/court_rules_sex_through_use_of_fraud_is_not_rape/

The Supreme Judicial Court unanimously ruled that a judge should have dismissed the rape charge against Alvin Suliveres , 44, of Westfield, because Massachusetts law has for centuries defined rape as sexual intercourse by force and against one's will, and that it is not rape when consent is obtained through fraud.

If the Legislature wants to make sex through fraud qualify as rape, it should follow the lead of several other states -- including Alabama, California, Michigan, and Tennessee -- and change the law, the court said.

since I happen to live here, and it is important for EMS and Police.

It is also the basis for Date Rape as well.

It appears that some US states have 'fraud rape' laws and some do not. And if this is so, it's wrong to say that we don't have such laws anywhere in the US, and wrong to suggest that we have them everywhere. But tell me this: Do the laws in any of these listed states prohibit lying about your religion to solicit sex?

but she jumps into bed on the first date? Or instead of a first date? Dumb.

If a woman wants a serious relationship, it works best to FIND OUT something about a man before jumping into bed and getting emotionally attached; like religion, desire for children or anything else that's really important to her. If it mattered enough that the guy is now in jail, maybe waiting until you've met friends and family, or at least spent a few more dates with him, would be wise.

bullshit big time, not to mention subtle misogyny.

No, I'm not excusing him; he lied. I'm simply saying that no matter what a woman is looking for in a man, she should make more of an effort to find out about him for her own sake. Jumping into bed that fast doesn't even give her time to google him.

your religion/ethnicity?

It's weird and sad but nothing close to what women go through in most of the world.

The law didn't prohibits a women from having sex with a person of different race or religion. Now that would be discrimination.
The law also didn't require the man to lie. He lied because he felt it was likely (or guaranteed) that he wouldn't have sex if he told the truth.

The law simply prohibits committing fraud to obtain sex. Committing fraud to obtain virtually anything else is a crime so why should sex be different?

Take a step further one can quantify sex as having monetary value given that people do pay for it (either directly or indirectly). Thus it is obtaining goods or services through deception.

It's sad, but it seems regardless of race if I take it at face value. However, probably under the surface she was more appalled by the fact she slept with someone Arab.

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and then finding out later that they were other than they presented themselves = 'rape'? I'd say incredibly poor judgement on your part, probably, but not rape. (Also, imagine how it would sound if it were in the US. And the woman in the case were saying 'I'd have never slept with him if I'd known he were Jewish.' Since the whole ethnic issue seems to be the sole grounds for her filing the charge in the first place.)

religion/ethnicity specific. Obtaining sex under false pretenses *can* be actionable as rape. It rarely happens though as it is hard enough to get a conviction in the US if the victim is covered in bruises and cuts.

You keep asserting that a person falsely representing him or herself for the purpose of obtaining sex is committing the crime of rape under US law. LisaL upthread provided proof (with link) that that is NOT the case... At least not in the state of Massachusetts. So in what other state or states in this country is it *true*? :shrug:

I'm tired of looking and not being able to find this "law". Please show us a link. Thanks.

who was passing as Italian. I can't believe that case would be prosecuted as rape these days, even in the deep South.

It does say a lot about institutional race relations in Israel.

'I'd have never slept with him if I'd known he were Baptist.'

in the Middle Ages--the model for Hitler's infamous yellow Star of David. It was so Christian women wouldn't unknowingly "pollute" themselves by having sex with a Jew.

Re "I'd have never slept with him if I'd known he were Jewish."

Truly ironic and sad.

Gideon Levy, a liberal Israeli commentator, was quoted as saying: "I would like to raise only one question with the judge. What if this guy had been a Jew who pretended to be a Muslim and had sex with a Muslim woman?

"Would he have been convicted of rape? The answer is: of course not."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/21/arab-guilty-rape-consensual-sex-jew

I agree with your first point as well. Probably not rape. People misrepresent themselves all of the time and then go on to have sex with the person they exaggerated or lied to. And despite what some are saying here, I could find no law in the US against it. I found stuff about false representation in the sale of property... for ex. someone can be prosecuted for selling a piece of jewelry that they claim to be a diamond when they know it to actually be a rhinestone.

But I could find NO law about someone falsely representing themselves for the purpose of getting laid (to be blunt). Can you imagine how clogged our court system would be if we did? Eye-Yi-Yih! The guy who claims to be a millionaire or the woman who says she's 29 instead of 40... That kind of stuff happens all of the time. And the person being lied to is more likely to believe the lie if they hop into bed with the liar on the first night they meet. It'd be a bit harder to verify 'the story'.

An Arab woman deceived by a Jewish man pretending to be Arab?

Well, that's what happened to the man so I guess it's fair then.

I guess it's the whole "being Arab" thing that makes it them so evil..

Of course, there are those in those areas where it is the "evil Jew." I am sure you are familiar with that opinion.

And that is the question I'm asking, if consensual sex under false pretenses is a crime in Israel then what would happen to a Jewish man who lied to an Arab woman telling her he was also an Arab in order to get her to have sex with him?

We hear plenty of screwed up stories about what happens to women (and men too albeit somewhat less often perhaps) in Arab/Muslim countries who run afoul of the law for sex outside of wedlock, there is no need to make this about any place other than Israel.

Or are you just in the frame of mind as making this as bigoted as possible by suggesting it wouldn't have happened the other way? Since you don't know the law either, perhaps you shouldn't jump to the "evil Arab" conclusion.

Of course it wouldn't have happened the other way. You DO know what would have happened if it was a jew pretending to be a muslim - he sure as hell wouldn't be sentenced to a year and a half in jail, he wouldn't have even been charged with rape.

What are the Lotto numbers for next week?

a jew doing the same thing with a muslim woman wouldn't have the slightest legal trouble in israel, and we all know it.

What is your opinion on the OP story?

Is positive ID of your religion now required in Israel before a sentence of rape?

it's okay for jews to be racist. doesn't everyone know that?

People lie to get others to sleep with them all the time.

"I'm a doctor"

"Yes, my breasts are real"

"No, I'm not married"

"Yes, I'll respect you in the morning"



Sheesh...

Not surprised this was Israel.

I have no idea what it is about that middle-eastern desert god and his weird foreskin fetish, but apparently all the descendants of Abraham think it's important--except the Christians, who think they get a pass, unless they're American.

:shrug:

"Can't eat pork? Or shrimp? I'm out."
"No, wait, we'll strike that one."
"Ah, OK then... wait, I have to do WHAT to my WHAT? Get lost!"
"All right, ALL RIGHT, we'll strike that one too."

You'd think, if you were trying to convert people to your faith, obviously penis mutilation would not be a big selling point.

I just want to know why anyone thought God wanted this in the first place. A sign of the covenant that was a form of bodily maiming, OK - why not cut off, say, the left earlobe, or the last joint of the right pinky finger, or a random inch of belly fat, for those who can spare it..., or a piercing or brand or tattoo?

why the foreskin? I just do. not. get it. It seems way too tied into human sexual hangups to have anything to do with the way a transcendent being might think. I would think, if I were a creator god, to tell people, "HELLO, I made you right in the first place and I did a damn good job. Don't mess with my creation!"

That's a funny but good observation. I hadn't thought of it that way before. Paul's motivations I mean... It just goes to show you that Peter's purist route was nowhere near as effective as Paul's (pragmatic) compromises in getting those numbers! :hide:

...:yoiks:

Had he closed the deal on that, the thought of him going to jail afterward is UN-american...

If I recall correctly I got laid once.... once.

...in the Great I/P Catch-22.

After all, it's based on a news article.

I guarantee, if it wasn't for the Israel angle, this thread would be devolving into an entirely different kind of shit-flinging party.

Ain't it grand? :woohoo:

The same thing happens in clubs all the time. Except instead of lying about your religion/ethnicity you just lie about how much money you have.

NO means NO.

And by that same logic--the one that means that women are fully-grown rational adults who have responsibility and agency--YES means YES.

If you weren't impaired or coerced and you said yes, you need to stand by it, even if you regret it in the cold hard light of morning.

I just can't help but see this as racist, sorry. Yes, lying is pitiful, but people of both genders do it dating all the time.

I'm not willing to call all forms of lying-to-get-laid "coercion". It's awful, but all genders and orientations do it, anyone old enough to be sexually active should be aware it happens, and I find it offensive to rape victims to put bad judgment or regrets or whoopses into that same category.

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: