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About this "rape by deceit" thing. I am wondering...

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howard112211 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 03:04 PM
Original message
About this "rape by deceit" thing. I am wondering...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x487521

if the legal definition of rape carries over to people who consented to having sex after being given false information, wouldn't that also imply that infidelity could lead to retroactive rape charges, if the person who was cheated entered into the relationship under the presumption that there would be fidelity?
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. and what about people who do not reveal that they have HIV before having unprotected sex?
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howard112211 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I think that can lead to "manslaughter" charges or something similar.
:shrug: deliberately spreading a disease is illegal, independent of the channel it is being spread through.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. hmmm but that might only apply if the unknowing partner dies from HIV...
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Attempted murder is also a felony.
And there a whole range of depraved indifference to human life, assault with a deadly weapon (if HIV doesn't qualify for that, I don't know what would), and other intent to do bodily harm charges.
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uncommon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Assault with a deadly weapon, which I recall seeing pressed in at least once case. nt
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qazplm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. that's a whole different kettle of fish
you've just assaulted someone with a mean likely to cause death.

There's a big gap between not telling someone you are an Arab, and not telling them you are HIV+ when you know you are HIV+.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. There is a difference between "not telling someone you are an Arab"
and actively lying and saying your are a Jew.

I wouldn't call it fraud but it could certainly be seen as Fraud.

Sex has value. It is purchased every day. Thus it is using willfully (I doubt the gun was unaware he wasn't really a Jew) inaccurate statements to defraud someone of goods or services. :)

Believe it or not at least half a dozen states in US have similar laws.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Your partner having less money or a different religion doesn't fucking KILL you. -nt
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Riftaxe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. That is being addressed
http://michiganmessenger.com/39807/obama-administration-calls-for-end-to-hiv-specific-criminal-laws">Obama administration calls for end to HIV-specific criminal laws
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. Rock Hudson. Doris Day. Pillow Talk.
The premise of the movie was that Hudson's character lied to women to get them into bed.

Not to mention that deceit is considered an HONORABLE character trait in the Old Testament. Think Shechem and Dinah.

Classical antiquity: The victorious Greeks defeated Troy by the deceptive Trojan horse.

Were all the great and famous seducers of women throughout history RAPISTS?

Are women really without responsibility for succumbing to lies?
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
7. how about rape by exageration? saying you are wealthy when you are not
or you are but not as wealthy as you let on?
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. lol
this is how i feel about this idea of rape by deception.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Whats the problem?
One party gets to think they slept with a Rollings Stone band member--their life long dream--and the other party gets consensual sex from a virtual groupie. The groupie never knows the truth, and gets to be happy, so it looks like there is no harm but only benefit.

If you can't lie to get sex, there would be far more grouchy and angry people in this world (and perhaps murders from pent up sexual frustration).
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. ill go one farther and say that
lying about sex might have been necessary for the survival of the human race

im not sure you can seperate the two

lying and sex
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notesdev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
13. Yup, "rape by deception" is a stupid concept
especially so since modern love is so much subjectivity and illusion to begin with.

If one starts attaching conditions to sex, they are a prostitute and not a lover.
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
14. Heh. I've caught women in all kinds of lies about
age, weight, hobbies, music interest, relationship status, employment status, living situations... you name it. I don't think I've ever dated one woman that hasn't attempted to deceive me about something. It annoys the crap out of me, but it's apparently just part of the deal. Prosecution for deceit could have some unintended consequences if applied here.
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. age
Edited on Wed Jul-21-10 04:49 PM by jah the baptist
yeh, so if i thought i was consenting to sex with a 29 year old when in fact i was with a 31 year old

i was raped by the deception standard.
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-21-10 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Dyed/bleached hair.. colored contact lenses.. implants...
Edited on Wed Jul-21-10 05:19 PM by Edweird
The possibilities are endless.

Just recently I hooked up with a woman I met not long after I got married (I'm almost done with my divorce). We ended up working together in a professional capacity. I saw her on a dating website where she was lying about her age - a lie she tried to continue with me. I guess she forgot that I have a good memory......
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