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Left? I’ll tell you what &*^%$# Left is.

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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:14 PM
Original message
Left? I’ll tell you what &*^%$# Left is.
Universal health care--that’s on the Left.

Left is when workers share in the benefits of their own increased productivity.

Left is when we have a draft that ensures that the kids of the rich die in equal numbers with the poor in our wars.

Left is when the government regulates the excesses of the rich and extends a helping hand to those at the lower margins of society, guaranteeing a chance at a decent life for all, rather than clamping down on the poor and helping the rich.

Left is when civil rights are extended to human beings, and corporations are not classified as specially privileged, immortal persons.

Left is when wholesale murder via corporate “cost-benefit analysis” is punished equally with retail murder committed in a gas station holdup.

Left is when the education system seeks to transmit wisdom and humane values, not just minimal job skills for the next generation of worker ants.

Left hasn't been seen in these parts in decades. I miss it.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. DAMN Right!
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. So, as a Democrat, is it more important to support the "left" or the party when they conflict?
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lame54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. you can support the party by getting them back on track
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. But advocating ideas against the party's stand puts you in conflict with the party.
Edited on Tue Jul-27-10 12:24 PM by Oregone
You are either with them or against them.
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daleanime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. And you must follow the party line?
Comrade?:sarcasm:








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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Following it isn't enough. You must enforce it in every viable manner
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
73. No it doesn't
It keeps them in check. If the party fails to support WE THE PEOPLE, then WE THE PEOPLE have to steer the Party in the proper direction. If that involves disagreeing with the party line, than so be it.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
74. Please define "party's stand". I support Democratic Principles not the "stand" of our
corporate kiss-ass Blue Fucking Dogs.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
79. Do you support having a war in Iraq and Afghanistan? Or do you just believe you need to support
whatever Pres Obama does?
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
118. when the party is wrong, I can't support them. Letting them know I
exist and millions more like me is how you fix things. I remember when being left was being a democrat. but then, I'm old.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
139. That's bullshit, and for the following reason...
If the party decided to call for legislation discriminating against gays, I wager you'd scream bloody murder and campaign until you're hoarse for Democratic candidates who wanted to reverse this trend.

A party is what its members make of it. If you don't take part in the party, that's your own lookout.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #10
150. Specificity
The difference I notice between DLC and pseudomoderate detractors from the left is that the left is frequently very specific about platform and policy while the majority of the DLC defenders here tend to be rather vague about the details.
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ericinne Donating Member (251 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 04:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
128. You can also support the party by simply parroting how YOU feel and not how you were told to feel
It's very "Liberating" to be a free thinker... THAT is the left.
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dtexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
26. Clearly the left.
That the question even needs to be asked shows the degradation of the Democratic Party.
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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
29. For me it's about principles, so
I support the Left within the party. I do not support DLC New Dems or Blue Dogs.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #29
81. Principles?? That is so last decade.
I hope it isnt necessary but: :sarcasm:
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on point Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
61. If the party doesn't support my values, then it is not my party.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
130. Principles, progressive
principles, should always guide the Democratic Party.

If the Democratic Party strays from these principles they are no longer the Democratic Party. Three issues can't be compromised. The first is support of organized labor, the second is support of the social safety-net and the third is protection of the environment including food and drug safety. There are others but on these issues, there can be no compromise. No compromise. You heard me.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. Nothing left to add.....
:thumbsup: :hi:
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&R
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. Damn right!
:kick: & R

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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. Hell YES!
Got Left? At DU, not so much anymore.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
7. that kind of left only exists in imaginary countries
like Canada and Germany.
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lame54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. What funny names - are they next to Who-Ville?
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. And Justin Beiber isn't buying any of that pap!
n.t.
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Citizen Worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
76. Canada. Population approx 35 million. Number of political parties, 30.
US populaton 330 million. Number of political parties, 1.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #76
97. !!!!!!!
But so very true.


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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #76
131. Excellent point!
Welcome to the Democratic Underground.
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #76
141. Oh, Snap!! "Number of political parties, 1." n/t
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #76
159. "US populaton 330 million. Number of political parties, 1"
lol

and :cry:
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. Well dream on but watch out on the RIGHT nt
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. I'd just add one thing, along with your comment about the draft.
Left is when we don't have wars, unless they are in actual defense of the United States of America (which has not been the case with any "war" since 1945)
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. I think that is the likely consequence of having a draft.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Didn't seem to stop the Vietnam clusterfuck
Edited on Tue Jul-27-10 12:44 PM by Sebastian Doyle
Of course the rich managed to get out of that one (with a few exceptions like Kerry, who wasn't drafted)

My suggestion would be to draft ONLY the rich. Especially from the Bush Crime Family, Rockefellers, or any other family that made their fortune from oil and/or manipulating the third world.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. I think you underestimate the role of the draft
in increasing the unpopularity of that war. Campus protests were clearly fueled in part by fear of the draft.
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
60. For one thing, our media can't be trusted now.
They wouldn't even cover them. No, any war the powers that be would continue to chug along. Giving them a draft would just give them more fodder, and the rich would still be able to avoid it. It's a foolish idea, especially today.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #20
63. We'd lose so fast and so often pretty soon we'd stop starting them. Good idea. nt
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Scruffy1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
64. Any draft system is corrupt
That's why we got rid of the damn thing, now I here people wanting it back. What we need is a much smaller military and a lot less spending on Wars. We are right back to 1968 except much worse off economically. At least then jobs were more available.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #64
75. I know 1968 isn't 1971, but: TIME's May '71 cover story about my class? "Where Are the Jobs?"
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #64
94. I have a somewhat different view.
Yes, the draft has been corrupt. Nevertheless, the most of the kids of the privileged classes seemed to end up bin uniform during WWII.

And I think the real reason we did in the draft was so that people wouldn't squeal so much when the MIC got us into the next war.
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gtar100 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #64
127. I agree. People talk about bringing the draft back like it's going to teach everyone a lesson.
That would be an awful, bloody lesson. It's a knee-jerk response to American people ignoring the consequences of its military. A much smaller military would serve us so much better.
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. So left is fairness, equality, and opportunity for all?
K&R.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
15. Left is not a draft, not now and not ever
Left is letting the military be made up of warriors who choose that life freely. Left is making sure that military is a defensive military, the best in the world, but not an imperial military defending the right of multinational corporations to rape the whole world. Left is making sure that military is fully integrated, warriors of color, LGBT warriors, and women warriors given equal access to jobs and benefits.

Left is socking it to the ultra rich to pay for the privilege of having their wealth defended by the best defensive military in the world.

Left is not giving madmen like the ones in the last administration full access to all the children of this country to pursue their dreams of a vast empire and a world in flames.
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. I would rec this if I could. n/t
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. I think making the rich and the chickenhawks put their kids'
lives on the line is the best way to ensure that we only fight desperately necessary wars. I think, for example, that Vietnam would have lasted longer & been even bloodier had there been no draft.

And let me add that I was drafted in 1967 and went to Vietnam in the infantry. It's fine to have a volunteer military in peacetime; it will serve as the core of our power if there is a war. But I don't want either a fully volunteer wartime force, not a mercenary army; both of those seem to have a vested interest in maintaining us in a state of war.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. That is sheer fantasy and will never work
as long as they can send their precious spawn overseas to be educated and keep them there in the family megacorporation's foreign offices until they are too old to draft.

There are dreams and there is reality. I prefer to be a realist. No draft, no supply of our children given to madmen in service of the rich.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. I know you're old enough to remember Vietnam.
And even Korea, for that matter. Remember that Ike was elected on a plan to end the war. "Home by Christmas." I don't think either war would have ended as soon as it did without a lot of middle-class college kids who didn't think military haircuts would be all that cool.

And yes, I know how long VN dragged on. It could have gone longer without the protests.
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #23
96. only poor people serve in today's military.
It is already an effective draft of the poor and oppressed, only. why would you defend this?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #96
103. Because a lot of people refuse to see this
we already have a draft... just NOT a middle class draft. And they are fine with that.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #96
108. That's what you think. You're absolutely wrong
There are families with a strong military tradition who are far from poor. There are also college graduates who see military service as officers as a stepping stone to a political career in the future. Other college grads see it as a secure job with plenty of travel followed by a decent retirement.

The military is not all poor people and shame on you for suggesting it is.

However, poor people are trying to join now more than ever because the economy is in the toilet. Perhaps having the GOP in office to crash the economy is more of a factor than any silly "default draft of the poor" idea is.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #108
156. Yes, and... many of those who join up
as officers do so because the military PAYS the College fees as part of the ROTC program, not because they COULD AFFORD IT. It was that way a few years ago, when I went to college, and it's just gotten that much worst.

Overall, the trend is for people of lower economic status to join. Even if we still have some folks that still join from multi millionaire families. That is not the rule... it was at one point, when the military was seen as a requirement for a career in politics. That was the WW II, Korea, even some Nam generations. Not any more.

Wake up and smell the coffee, we do have a poverty draft in this country. But I guess that's ok.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #15
33. Good point, adopt Gen. Butler's plan.
I didn't want to diminish the OP's rant, but yes a draft is about as far from left as corporate welfare.

You've given me an idea though, tell me what you think. A very high (90+%) military tax on all income/profits over $50,000,000?


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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. And another thing about the left--
People of good will are permitted to disagree while continuing to cherish each other.


There is no such thing as a "volunteer" military. Most people who join up do so because of economic necessity--perhaps as their only route to an education or to citizenship--and the ranks are therefore disproportionately filled with the lower classes and castes. Relying on a "volunteer" military is just another way of pressuring the poor to fight the battles of the rich.
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lib_wit_it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #33
122. Yes, definitely, but graduated down to somewhere around 50% on those over $500,000. Let those for
whom the wars are primarily fought fund them.
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The Green Manalishi Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
56. No Draft
Edited on Tue Jul-27-10 06:09 PM by The Green Manalishi
Ever. For any reason.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
62. yeah, no shit, and wtf?
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
65. I vote for Warpy! nt
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relayerbob Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
83. No draft, no war
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #83
95. Hell, I don't disagree.
If we had no wars, we would need no draft. In the meantime, a "volunteer military" really amounts to the more prosperous citizens sending the poor to fight and die for them.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #95
132. I vote with Jackpine Radical.
If the nation is truly in peril we should fight the enemy with all we have. That means a military draft is necessary. We should have a voluntary military until war time, then we should have a draft. The best way to avoid a draft is to stop engaging in foreign entanglements and wars of choice.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #83
114. Some would argue ...
A draft that includes rich kids with no exceptions .... no war.

The no exceptions part is key to that idea. Consider this ... if the Bush twins would have had to go to Iraq, does Bush invade? Do the rich neocons demand war if their kids must go?

Would Congress be more circumspect about war if their kids would have to go ... probably.

I think that is where the notion of a draft in this context gets proposed.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
101. People on the LEFT
are waking up as to why this actually allows Imperial wars to continue.

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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #15
133. +1000!!!!
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latebloomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #15
134. +1000
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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #15
148. A warrior is someone who fights
to defend how he makes a living. A soldier fights for a living. The use of the term "warrior" to refer to our professional soldiery came of vogue during the first Gulf War. Our armed forces are more akin to the professionals soldiers of the 7th Cavalry then to Cheyenne warriors.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #148
152. It's a culture and an inclination
and the Cheyenne also had people who were not natural warriors and respected it, IIRC from reading the Indian lit that started becoming available in the 1970s onward.

Some people are drawn to the sort of structure the military provides, along with the physical conditioning and the training in warfare. I'm a pacifist so I don't share it, but I recognize it exists.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
16. Left on! nt
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
27. K&R
The Left used to have a voice in the Democratic Party:
"We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.”<2> People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

*The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

*The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

*The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

*The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

*The right of every family to a decent home;

*The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

*The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

*The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

For unless there is security here at home there cannot be lasting peace in the world._---FDR

I will FIGHT FOR that Democratic Party.
Sadly, it did not survive Reagan and Clinton.


"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."

--- Paul Wellstone


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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #27
44. I think American liberalism--in those few times when we have seen it--
was primarily a means of saving capitalism from itself. FDR prevented what might have been a socialist (or maybe fascist) revolution in about 1935. LBJ's signing of the Civil Rights & Medicare bills most likely also deferred some race and class-based riots.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
28. K&R. (nt)
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
30. Wow, that's so left, it's almost socialist
You socialist, you!
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #30
42. Aw crap. Only ALMOST?
I'll have to try harder.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #42
51. It's a good starting point.
I'd argue that capitalism has to go before we can achieve any kind of lasting economic equality and peace, but your list is a very good start
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #42
126. Relax, it's full on socialism
I was just trying to make a funny.
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
31. Yew goddam lieburul eelitist!
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
32. Indeed.
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LargeGreenSpider Donating Member (130 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
34. Bravo!!!
Say it loud, my friend. On every street corner.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
35. K&R
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
37. Well said.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
38. Miss it, totally: Left is making Wall Street pay for its lost trillions, not the U.S. taxpayer.
In the spirit of piling it on:

Left is putting the interests of the middle classes and poor ahead of the interests of the wealthy.

Left is putting Peace ahead of War.

Thank you for putting it into words, Jackpine Radical.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. Thanks for the additions.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
39. Recommend
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Lucian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
40. I totally agree. K & R
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
41. Actually, I'd call that the center.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Well, it should be.
Then I could call myself a centrist.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
46. The Left stands for Habeas Corpus, The left stands for no spying on Americans
Edited on Tue Jul-27-10 02:22 PM by flyarm
the left stands for no torture

The left used to stand for no renditions for the purpose of torture.

The left stands for a Judicial system that works for all..and is not manipulated for the elite to commit crimes and get the fuck away with them!

The left used to stand for women's reproductive rights.

The left used to stand for quality health care for all as a BORN RIGHT ..not a mandate.

But now we are told there is a new Democratic party..that thinks the left is retarded!

And that seniors should eat cat food and are discarded.

I am glad I have lived long enough and been a proud card carrying Lefty long enough to know what the real left was ..and not this new bullshit!

I actually feel sorry for those who think selling themselves out is good!

And one thing I am pretty damn sure of..they will awaken one day, in the not so distant future, all bruised and battered and broke..and realize how they have been HAD!
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Yes, yes, yes.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
47. Damn Proud to K&R..thank you OP!! eom
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TriMera Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
49. Yes, Sir!
That is the left we need to get back to!:toast:
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
50. That's only "left" if you use the Washington yardstick
If you use the "what do most Americans agree with" yardstick, those ideals are dead center.

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branders seine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
52. shouldn't the spawn of the rich die in GREATER proportion?
Their parents reap proportionally greater reward. Greater sacrifice would be fair.
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
53. Well done
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
54. K&R!
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
55. A&*^%$#MEN!
:GREENBOUNCYTHANGOJOY:

-Hoot
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
57. I agree with everything, but what is your point?
It's like going on freerepublic and telling everyone that want little government, no taxes, and to abolish all abortions.

What is the point?
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #57
142. Here is the point....Sometimes one needs to frame their argument
in terms of "those who have ears to hear". :yoiks:



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Political_Junkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
58. It's a start.
K & R
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cate94 Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
59. K & R
Thank you for your OP. I am not ashamed to be a lefty. I am a proud liberal, my ideals once were the same as my party. Now I am told that I am retarded and my party stands for nothing.

They threw women, gay people, and now the unions under the bus. Yes, the Democrats are the lesser of two evils but not by all that much. Yes, I will vote for the Dems in November, but it is sad to see them capitulate on important issues, without even the pretense of a fight.

"The left hasn't been seen in these parts in decades." Grayson gives me some hope. He actually appears to have been born with a spine.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #59
67. I sent $$ to Grayson.
$50 to make the point that lots of people are liking what they hear him say.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #67
80. It was worth moving to a different county, changing my daughter's school, to be in his district!
:)
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The Midway Rebel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
66. Fuck Yes! n/t
"Left is when the education system seeks to transmit wisdom and humane values, not just minimal job skills for the next generation of worker ants."



I am stealing this one, if you don't mind.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. I certainly don't mind.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
68. Left is when Labor is recognized as the source of national wealth, and Capital is harnessed
to serve the interests of Labor.

I would also say that Left ought to be about the dismantling of the MIC and the National Security State and all the many tentacles that feed into Imperialism.

Rec'd, of course.
sw
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #68
77. Well said. nm
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #68
90. Thanks, SW.
Your points are well-taken. The labor theory of value was Marx's greatest contribution to economic theory.

And hell yes, down with Empire. Throughout history, being pawns in an empire was never good for the common people.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
70. Narwhals.
Fuck, yeah! :thumbsup:
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
71. K&R!!!!!!!!!!
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
72. The left has to tread carefully here. nm
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
78. Left is a state where corporations do not have "personhood"
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relayerbob Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
82. Left is when
"Left is when we have a draft that ensures that the kids of the rich die in equal numbers with the poor in our wars."

No, left is when we spend $500 billion a year tearing down the walls between people and artifical states and don't fight wars.
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Towlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
84. Awesome! Now get to work on "Right? I’ll tell you what &*^%$# Right is."
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
85. +1,000,000,000!!!
:kick:
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
86. Hear Ya! (sorry to to a GB Shout) ....K&R
:kick:
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N_E_1 for Tennis Donating Member (437 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
87. K & R
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
88. K&R
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
89. Do I need to quote Gore Vidal?
In short ...both parties are controlled by the same sociopaths. The only hope is for the progressive party to get large enough to get a real one of their own in the highest office and as many other government positions as possible. Anything else will just be more of the same and we will continue to get fooled again and again. That won't happen though. Have you noticed that campaign finance has been stopped again? Guess why.
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humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
91. Oh my
1. Universal Health Care is only left when it contains a means tested public option.
2. Workers will only share in increased productivity when the corporate bosses are exterminated.
3. No need for a draft when Left is anti-war
4. Left is when the Govt makes it just as painful for Bill Gates to buy a gallon of gas as it is for me then lets see how fast we get off of oil.
5. Left needs a Resurgence.
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
92. Happy to be #200.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
93. You're damned tootin'!
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
98. HELL yes
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
99. I thought these things were a given
but the name of the game is 'destroy all meaning of language', Ethics and morality must become subject to expediency and "debate". There is always another side? To what? We find ourselves debating our very core principals.

If this today was representative of the 'left', we would be arguing more about tactics than about what we 'believe' 'we' stand for.
The "new" way is a slippery slope to nowhere.

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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
100. K & f'n R!
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Bryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
102. K&R
:kick:
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Poboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
104. +217 votes (Your vote: +1) -nt
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
105. Easy rec.
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LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
106. yup, sounds like my definition of Left...
funny that so many seem to think it reasonable to call mandated private insurance with limited subsidies for the very poor... a Left policy, just for an example...

:toast:
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craigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
107. here here. We haven't been a left wing country since LBJ left office.
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
109. K and R
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
110. universal healthcare is not "left"
it is a human right. That is why every single first world country provides some type of universal healthcare to at least all of its citizens, if not residents.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #110
123. Oddly enough
The first two countries to adopt Universal Health Care were right-wing, militaristic governments:
Germany under Otto von Bismarck
The government of 1920's Japan

Tell that to the whiny, tea-bag loving, health care is Socialism reich-wingers you know
When I point this out to those idiots I get the following stages of response
1. Denial: That's not true! BS!
2. Proof: Show me!
3. Pissed off: So! This is not Germany or Japan!
4. Stupid: We beat them in WWII. Their Universal Health Care didn't help them (This stage only happens about 20% of the time -- but it's still funny to hear it)
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
111. K & R # 226, Yes!
I love it! Hell, I love you!:hug: :yourock:
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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
112. ENTHUSIASTIC KICK & FUCKING RECOMMENDED!!!!!!!!
:kick::kick::kick:
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
113. FAIL for warmongering.
No cannon fodder for the Empire - let it bleed itself dry paying for mercenaries, like all the previous ones did.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
115. K&R n/t
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
116. K & R nt
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
117. A freekin man
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
119. Now be reasonable.
Who wants that kind of stuff?
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-10 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
120. Happy to rec and even agree as long as that draft comes with a serious war tax
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
121. Me too!
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
124. Proud to be a lefty
:kick:
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BEZERKO Donating Member (564 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
125. You say tomato, I say tomato.
You say left, I say liberal. Left and right implies that there's a center. And that's been a big problem for us.
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Naturyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 05:40 AM
Response to Original message
129. How about decoupling employment from survival
That's too far left for most "leftists."
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
135. Left is actually standing up for social and economic justice.
It isn`t just nodding and clapping for every every corporate ass-kissing position taken by party "leaders" with giant Ds after their names.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
136. Rec #300. n/t
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Eyerish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
137. K&R
Proud to be the 301st rec!
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
138. KR. nt
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SlingBlade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
140. K & R
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
143. Wow!
Conspicuous by their absence are a whole lot of regular DU posters who usually weigh in on threads such as this. The result is not as much back and forth discussion as might otherwise be seen.

K&R
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sybylla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
144. You are my hero, Jackpine
As always. No one says it like you.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #144
161. Aw, shucks, Sybylla...
:blush:

:hug:
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hwmnbn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
145. BAM!!! right on!!
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orbitalman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
146. K&R
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
147. Thank you. nt
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
149. K&R
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 11:23 AM
Original message
K&R with thanks
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
151. One correction--Left is anti war and tries in every way to keep the peace--BUT
when we are forced into a war of self defense, then all serve equally, despite race, gender, or economic class.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
153. Hartmann just mentioned this thread
:thumbsup:
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Poboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
154. +350 Recommendations. outstanding.
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
155. Hartman is reading this right now.
Read the whole OP. Credited DU and Jackpine Radical.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
157. Kick from Thom Hatmann fan n/t
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
158. Rec'd yesterday, but heeeeeeeeeeere's the kick!
:kick:
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
160. Kick!
:kick:
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
162. kick n/t
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kgnu_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 10:42 PM
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163. Kick for Peace!!!!
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