Health Care Act includes provision to force Self Employed to report their purchases to IRS

On their 1099. (All purchases over $600 a year)

As a way to help "pay for" the massive giveaway of funds to create a private trust of insurance cos.

that Americans who do not know how to object (there are several allowable objections for the
uninsured to avoid the $1000 fine) will be fined for not purchasing... goods (commoditized insurance) from.

Bye-bye personal information, it is now the business of the State what you buy and from whom
(including commoditized insurance, a supposedly private contract with a supposedly private entity).

It also punitively targets people who invest in gold, See this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8822609

and we're seeing the results of that now.

It's easy for your opponents to slip things in any huge bill that will go unnoticed until later when it's too late. Are there any ways to track the sources/authors of every part of a bill? I know at this point it doesn't matter because democrats will get the blame for every line in the bill even if they didn't write this part of it. I'm not saying republicans did this but I'm sure they used every legislative trick to sabatogue the bill. They want our government, our country and democrats to fail and they couldn't care less if they destroyed the country.

First of all, a 1099 is issued to self employed persons/independent contractors by the payer. From what I can discern from the legalese of the actual new code:



It seems to me that apparently "corporations" have been getting away with not declaring monies/goods paid out to independent contractors and now they're going to have to issue 1099s to anyone to whom they pay $600.00 and over.

Isn't that a good thing?

Obviously I could be wrong and I would hope someone with a better understanding of tax law chimes in here.

link to the bill: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111hr3590PP/html/BILLS-111hr3590PP.htm

EDIT ADD: On second glance, it might mean that companies/individuals who filed as LLCs in order to avoid shelling out self-payment of payroll taxes might not be able to do that anymore.

Just the same, I do hope someone more well-versed in tax law speaks up.

understand that this provision applies to folks trading in physical commodities, such as gold and coins. Currently, if I trade in financial instruments, such as stocks and bonds, the proceeds paid out to me must be reported on a 1099. However, if I similarly trade in bullion or coin, the proceeds are not reported. The new law will require reporting of these proceeds which will then be taxed to the extent capital gains were made on the transaction. You were always required to report such gains on your 1040 and pay taxes on them, but without the 1099 from the buyer, the IRS would have a difficult time proving you had such income, under this law this sort of income will be easier to track.

Glenn Beck's gold traders are furious. However, all reports aside, this is not a new tax, you were always supposed to report this sort of gain and pay taxes on it. It will now just be easier to tell if you are cheating.

new tax reporting duties, which is a blow to small business.

I understand what you mean about the reportage already being a requirement. I know that I declare my equipment purchases as well as monies paid for utilities and rent because I work at home. However, my income is tiny and I can't remember the last time I bought any one thing worth over $200.00 - just the same I declare all of it because doing so lessens the amount I have to shell out at the end of the year. At least, I think it does.

But thanks for absorbing the talking points -- do you LISTEN to Glenn Beck? I haven't heard or read what that guy's opinion is in 5 years. About anything.

Of course this sort of logic implies that if something hurts Republicans or helps members of YOUR party than it is good.

I guess self-employed people are not supposed to be Democrats.

Or you feel they should pay a capital gains tax on EVERY TRANSACTION they make.

"It seems to me that apparently "corporations" have been getting away with not declaring monies/goods paid out to independent contractors "

Nobody gets away with no declaring money paid. Money paid is an expense. An expense which reduces profit and thus taxes.

It would be like saying millions of Americans are "getting away" with forgetting to take mortgage interest deduction and as a result are paying more taxes.

That means snooping and making judgement calls on your personal economic activities, as I know all too well since I am in the middle of filling out a 1023 to take a community organization 501. Our accountant says we will have to remove all language from our by-laws describing what the corporation actually does, or else the IRS will make us have to justify our community mission LINE BY LINE.

This all started with credit checks on public housing residents, as I noted in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8819635

to report all purchases over $600. The 1099's can go both ways, both to and from the small business. For instance, in my small business, we file 1099's for two or three contractors who do work for us during the year. Now we will also have to file 1099's for money paid out for purchases.

As a self-employed partner with my husband in a business for the past 30 years, if we really have to report all our purchases to the IRS, it will at least double the time and complexity of our tax preparation and filing. If true, this is an onerous burden on the self-employed and small business.

It will also vastly increase the record-keeping responsibilities and filing complexity of every business we buy from. This means that every single transaction is a locus of exploding tax chores on both sides.

I can hardly believe they've set it up this way.

I'm sure that from his point of view it is a real windfall..

For those of us who actually run small businesses it is another story.

Funny how perspectives differ, isn't it?

HR Block would be devastated if taxcode was ever simplified.

Imagine if for people making under $250,000 all the deductions & credits were eliminated and to compensate a single deduction fo $40,000 was given.

Tax form:
Line 1) Total of all Income from all forms.
Line 2) Taxable Income Subtract ($40,000 from Line 1)
Line 3) Taxes Due (lookup from tax table)
Line 4) Taxes Paid (total of payroll deductions & any other estimated tax payments)
Line 5) Owed or refund (subtract line 4 from 3). If negative this is amount of refund. If positive this is amount owed.

Done.

How many people would use tax services?

The complexity is a huge boom for many people/industries.

Any vendor.

I was trying to explain this to my doctor. He is going to have to 1099 HP for his ink cartridges, another vendor for his paper purchases, etc. It's a total nightmare, because now he needs federal tax id numbers on all these vendors. Until the final regs, I am not even sure that he doesn't have to 1099 his business ISP, his pickup service for medical waste, his garbage service, his utility company, software licenses, business network virus protection service, etc, etc.

I hope this will be repealed. The theory behind it was that the IRS could collect more tax dollars, but the IRS doesn't have the personnel to do the matching and I doubt very much that most of these are cash purchases anyway. The total cost to the economy of this will hugely outweigh any new tax revenue.

I don't think the final IRS regulations have been issued yet, but according to the law and depending on the regulations, suppose you took two business flights a year - you'd probably have to 1099 the airline. If you stay in a hotel chain enough to add up to the $600, in theory you should 1099 the hotel chain. I think it is a ridiculous nightmare, because legally some of these businesses are owned by different corporations and some are not. How do you even know? As things go now you are supposed to send 1099s to the IRS and to the contractor, etc, so this is quite a cost in postage too.

For record-keeping purposes, it seems like you need to track every purchase and have all of their tax ids stored if you are even going to get close to the 600. What's really going to happen is that most small businesses won't be able to comply in practice and then will get hit by random fines in regular audits.

A few simple changes to the law (cash purchases only, not standard services such as meals, travel, etc) could go a long way toward maybe helping the IRS pick up some tax dodgers and hugely cut the record-keeping burden.

Wouldn't you love to know exactly which moran on which committee got this inserted?

We haven't heard the end of this one. The right is busy making hay with it. Who isn't going to hate this provision?

Imagine real estate agents - probably the largest single group of independent contractors in the country, having to submit 1099s to Verizon for God's sake for the privilege of having a cell phone.

Honestly, sometimes I think the Dems hate being in the majority and look for ways to undo it. They found a great way to accomplish that goal here.

If small businesspersons are forced to file on electronic media (perhaps over the Internet), the data they supply can be matched against the tax returns of vendors electronically. If vendor XYZ has 1099's totaling $8 million, but only reports $10 million in gross sales (clearly, not everyone who buys from vendor XYZ has to fill out a 1099), then vendor XYZ is a good candidate for audit.

If vendor XYZ supplies all his/her goods and/or services to other small businesses, then that needs to be closer to a 100% match in order to avoid an audit. It's going to be a full employment act for CPAs.

You do need the right address and federal tax IDs, though. And you do have to mail the company or vendor a copy.

Unless you are paying a corporation in cash, I see no need for this. The banking information alone is easy to track. And don't think such organizations aren't audited all the time by states (especially for sales taxes) etc.

The expansion of the law to corporations is what I am questioning.

For a doctor, it may not be too bad if he can get the correct info to fill these out correctly, although that will be an expensive item. But consider a person who travels, small retail, etc.

A lot of these small businesses are staggering anyway, and this sort of thing is just what they don't need right now.

I think most of the tax evasion really comes from small businesses collecting cash for services from individuals. Companies generally won't do cash for services, because they deduct the cost from profits. There is no incentive to do it. Individuals probably do often pay less in cash. That cash never goes into the bank and is used for spending money/incidentals. This is casting wide and very inefficient net that has to be woven at substantial cost by business people at a time when many of them are scrambling.

This isn't a Republican talking point. It's a straw-that-broke-the-camel's-back point. There is nothing in the Democratic party's platform that contradicts efficiency and reason.

Download all phone and e-mail traffic, instantaneously mine it for key phrases,

And store it on a machine in Laurel, Maryland.

Doesn't make the Democratic Party the party of Big Brother.

The Republicans are supposed to be the party of Big Brother. The rest of us are not supposed to be advocating for stuff like this.

It appears to be true, or at least I haven't heard anyone counter it, and it is making people very very angry.

This is one of those hammers the Democrats forge and then give to opponents to assault them with.

Seriously, there are enough small business people and independent contractors out there to make this one STUPID piece of needless crap the entire reason for their vote for a Republican.

This is intrusive, stupid, idiotic, pointless garbage and the sooner they repeal this provision the better.

If we don't speak up about this idiocy and get it reversed, this will DRIVE people to vote Republican.

This is one that a lot of "little people" in the words of that BP prick, can relate to.

It's also been posted no less than a dozen times here, and I've read many responses debunking the alarmist nature of this sort of right-wing attack. Since I have read and comprehended these corrections about this in the past dozen threads, I'm not going to re-argue the case - you can search if you want to.

Me? I'm unreccing and hiding this ad-nauseum repost.

Do you "unrec" on your neighbors, Hugh Moran?

And y'all obviously know much more about what Glenn Beck says on his show than I do. My opinion is: Opposition Research can affect your own frame of reference, if you spend too much time reading RW newspapers / pundits so you can jeer at them. I gave up on the Washington Post not too long ago.

So it appears to be more than just a right wing talking point, it appears to be reality.

It will drive away voters from the Dems in MASSES.

Please read and then debunk the CNN article, please.

Read.

Why do you make such assertions which only undermine your own credibility?

Did you bother reading the CNN article? It's short and specific

The new law makes 1099s now track not just services, as previously, but tangible goods. And it now makes them be issued to not just individuals but also corporations. These are CHANGES.

Please follow your own advice and do a simple search before handing out misinformation.

It's a frankenstein's monster of loopholes for the rich and reporting requirements that only the rich can afford to get around by hiring someone who knows how to fill out the paperwork.

IRS Notice 2010-51


PURPOSE

This notice invites public comments regarding guidance to be provided concerning new requirements with respect to the reporting of payments made in the course of the payor's trade or business. The new reporting requirements are in section 6041 of the Internal Revenue Code (the Code), which was amended by section 9006 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2010, Pub. L. No. 111-148, 124 Stat. 119 (the Act). Very generally, these amendments expand existing information reporting requirements to apply to payments made to corporations and to include certain payments of gross proceeds and with respect to property. The new reporting requirements under these amendments apply to payments made after December 31, 2011.


BACKGROUND

Section 6041 generally requires information returns to be made by every person (payor) engaged in a trade or business who makes payments, as defined in section 6041(a), aggregating $600 or more in any taxable year to another person (payee) in the course of the payor's trade or business. The information returns must be filed with the Internal Revenue Service and corresponding statements must be sent to each payee. Form 1099-MISC, Miscellaneous Income, is generally used for this purpose, although Form W-2, Wage and Tax Statement, is generally used for payments to employees. See Treas. Reg. §1.6041-1(a)(2).


The Act amended section 6041(a) to add payments of "amounts in consideration for property" and "gross proceeds" to the list of payments subject to reporting. However, the Act retained existing exceptions in section 6041(a) for "payments to which section 6042(a)(1), 6044(a)(1), 6047(e), 6049(a), or 6050N(a) applies," and "payments with respect to which a statement is required under the authority of section 6042(a)(2), 6044(a)(2), or 6045." These excepted payments include most interest, dividends, royalties, and securities and broker transactions.

The Act also added new section 6041(h) regarding the application of section 6041 to payments made to corporations. Existing regulations under section 6041 generally except payments to corporations, exempt organizations, governmental entities, international organizations, and retirement plans from reporting under section 6041. See Treas. Reg. §1.6041-3(p). New section 6041(h) provides that, notwithstanding any regulation prescribed by the Secretary before the date of enactment, for purposes of section 6041, the term "person" includes any corporation that is not an organization exempt from tax under section 501(a). Thus, under new section 6041(h), payments to corporations that are not tax-exempt may be subject to information reporting.

Finally, the Act added new section 6041(i) authorizing the Secretary to prescribe such regulations and other guidance as may be appropriate or necessary to carry out the purposes of section 6041, including rules to prevent duplicative reporting of transactions. Also, section 6041(a) provides generally that information returns under section 6041 shall be furnished under such regulations and in such form and manner, and to such extent, as may be prescribed by the Secretary.


REQUEST FOR PUBLIC COMMENTS

The Treasury Department and the Internal Revenue Service intend to issue guidance that will implement these changes to section 6041 in a manner that minimizes burden and avoids duplicative reporting. This notice requests comments regarding possible approaches to the section 6041 guidance that will assist in achieving those goals.

The tax code is already broken without corporatists in both parties trying to fuck it up more.

But of course you believe that if YOU make loads of money and half to spend an entire month of your life doing taxes, EVERYONE should suffer.

asking for comments on several fronts. The new section 6041(h) applies to corporations, expanding the current 'person' to include any corporation not exempt under 501(a).

Seems like you're objecting to having corporations report their actual expenditures to the IRS.

Why do you expect every Dem (any of whom are lower-income, many of whom are self-employed) to know these facts. We can't all afford accountants.

On Edit: The fact that these rulings are already in place (and ignored / avoided by every accountant worth his salt) does not make them right.

to you is that this whole issue isn't resolved as yet. Yes, the HCR bill contained some changes to the tax code Section 6041, as stated here on page 737. http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/patient-protection-affordable-care-act-as-passed.pdf

The IRS then must pass the regulations to put this 'law' into effect. They have just asked for public comments on July 19. http://www.irs.gov/irb/2010-29_IRB/ar09.html

There is an effort to repeal this section of the healthcare law, introduced July 16. http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/domestic-taxes/109243-senators-seek-to-repeal-1099-rule-in-healthcare-law

The whole thing wouldn't go into effect until January of 2012, so there's over a year to see if they exempt self-employed and small businesses or repeal it or rewrite it or whatever.

The new law makes 1099s now track not just services, as previously, but tangible goods. And it now makes them be issued to not just individuals but also corporations. These are CHANGES. They are big changes. They are stupid changes.

A real estate person for example should not have to send a 1099 to Verizon that to inform them they are receiving over 600 dollars a year in cell phone services. The real estate person already knows it and so does Verizon. The 1099 requirementis a waste of time energy and money and it makes the Democrats look like complete morans. It actually gives credence to Joe the Plumber types who rag about needless government intrusion and interference. The majority of small business people and independent contractors would agree with that.


But go ahead. Ignore a very real issue that is igniting and unifying the right.Be sure to villify posters who discuss it as passing on untruthful right wing talking points when that is not the case. The day after the elctions wonder why the Dems lost upteen seats in the House and the Senate.

Her firm already recommends collecting tax data on all vendors, since the IRS requires that you have it on hand at the time of the transaction, not just at tax-filing time. And eliminating the corporate and goods exemptions at least means that businesses will no longer have to pour over every transaction to determine if it needs a 1099. The new rule is simpler: If it crosses the $600 threshold, it's in.

"There are probably going to be some hiccups along the way, because systems will need to be redesigned," says Couch. "But overall I believe it will make compliance on the payor end a lot more streamlined and easier."

Your argument that it is 'stupid' would be justified if 'businesses' weren't ripping off the IRS to the tune of $300 billion a year on unreported income.

http://trac.syr.edu/tracirs/newfindings/v15/
Despite Rising Deficits, IRS Audits of the
Largest and Richest Corporations Decline

*********************************************
Very enlightening.


The IRS already has all the tools it needs to go after tax cheats.

IRS recently did a blanket corporate death penalty (no joke) for small 501's which had not filed in 3 years which had been too small to be required to file so the gov't can keep tabs on their activities and whether it "qualifies" as tax-exempt (speaking of Glenn Beck, anyone?). (They were not previously required to file, for good reason.) These include small chamber music recital groups, issue activist groups, and a group I'm involved in (which thankfully hadn't filed its 1023 yet and can apply under a different ruling).

Oh and did I mention there is no "arts" designation in the nonprofit law which is why small arts organizations that make under $15,000 a year are so reluctant to have to defend and re-defend their chamber music activities, etc. as tax-exempt on an annual basis.

That's right, small arts groups in America don't qualify as a a tax-exempt purpose.

HUGE percentage of businesses do not report all their income, thereby getting HUGE illegal tax breaks. It's way past time to crack down on the fuckers. $300 billion a year of illegal tax evasion -- go after these fuckers!!

the scope of the 1099.

Previously, it was just used to report services -- not goods. Now it will be both, which adds up to a huge new number of transactions that must be reported between that change and the change to cover corporations.

And I know that my customers who pay me more than $600 are supposed to send me a 1099.

(I think that's the current amount, but it may be more -- I'd have to check).

And guess what? Only ONE sends me the 1099 form. And one of those that DON'T, is The World's Greatest University.

This causes me a tremendous amount of stress at tax time. I'd have a very hard time explaining my income to an IRS auditor.

Not just over $600 per purchase but over $600 per vendor per year.

For example if you have a business cellphone, or car, or internet service.

You will need to get TAX ID of your cellphone provide, internet provide, and gasoline provider. Then total up your purchases for each one, print, and file a 1099 for each one of these vendors.

n/t

Many people were screaming about this back when HCR was still being debated, but they were largely drowned out by the din of people complaining about the OTHER problems in the regulations.

The dimwits in Washington failed to account for all of the people, like me, who run small one person operations and can't afford a fancy accountant. I have a regular job nowadays, but since closing my "real" business a year and a half ago, I've kept doing some extra work on the side to help make up some of my loss in income. My total business revenue last year was about $38,000, of which about $9,000 went into my pocket as income. Not a lot, but enough to help pay the bills (my adjunct teaching job is poor-mans work, to put it nicely). The other $29,000 went out as expenses, nearly all of which exceeded $600.

My entire "business" amounts to about 90 minutes a day of work and is run out of a small two-drawer filing cabinet. There is no way I have the time, space, or temerity to track all of those purchases. My taxes, since I can no longer afford a real accountant, are done by Jackson Hewitt, who charges BY THE PAGE. While the extra $750 a month is a huge help, I don't think it's worth the effort. I don't do paperwork.

I know of two other one man operations who are simply switching to cash-only and will just stop reporting their self-employed income entirely at the end of the year (this is becoming a common option in California anyway...there is a huge cash economy originally started by all of the undocumented immigrants, but now spreading rapidly to other areas of commerce). I have too many assets to risk an IRS audit, so I'm just going to stop consulting entirely.

I wish there were some other way of proving them wrong, than to say, "see how many people are losing a job because of this."

Many folks are either solidly middle class, already have corporate pensions/401ks, insurance etc and don't see the problem paying H&R Block, and think everyone is equally advantaged, or they are well-to-do and feel the Democratic Party should be the party of the highly educated, most of whom can afford an accountant.

The accountant assisting the small not-for-profit I work at is helping us for free. As mentioned, he's terminally honest and feels that the entire tax code should be abolished and replaced with a progressive sales tax and dividends in place of the low income tax credit.

But that wouldn't fulfill the primary purpose of "Stamp Act" type regulation, which is to monitor and change behavior.

Especially customer behavior that differs from the norm (large corporations handling all transactions in life).

a "socialist" bill: this hamstrings much criticism of the bill as insufficiently left/liberal/70-percenter

your giving up 9k in revenue due to needing $250 of accounting work done? Its not that complicated, for someone with only a few vendors you could do it yourself as well.

self-employed small business person, is the amount of TIME it will take me (I do my own) to do this. It is not going to change the taxes I pay, but it will add a huge amount of time to how long it takes me to fulfill my obligations to the taxing authority. And it already takes a lot of time.

I think there comes a time when the requirements get so stupid and irrational that people will stop taking their duty to pay taxes seriously. I say this as a 65 year old long-time leftist who believes in community and the common good, and therefore, in paying my taxes. And if you are as old as I am your taxes have gone to a lot of things you don't believe in, so I am very close to flipping.

you have to total up the expense in the first fucking place TO KNOW IT EQUALS >600.00.


you've done the work.

stop bitching.

to add up the numbers. You don't run a small business without adding up the numbers, all the time. Of course the numbers are already added up. If you had ever done this you would know what I'm talking about.

What I AM bitching about is inane, intrusive, pointless, redundant makework: to the idea that my time is expendable. About that, I will continue to bitch.

And I don't get to keep $9k in income anyway. By the time federal and self employment taxes are paid, I only get to keep about $7k of that.

I have a business license and file a Schedule C and SE to report my income every year, but that's about the extent of the paperwork that I do for this business. For me, it's something I do an hour a day before work to get some side money...I don't even have business cards or a computer ledger (which is funny, as I do IT consulting). I don't do enough business to really justify the time and money expenditure involved with tracking all of my finances electronically. Heck, I don't even have a dedicated bank account or checks for the business.

Just like millions of other sole props. I don't run a business, I provide simple services in exchange for a relatively small amount of money, but enough money to get the attention of the IRS. I've run a business, and know how to do it right, but really don't think it's worth the hassle for a measly $7,000 a year. If I were making a living at this, my attitude would be different.

Congress wants us all to run our hobby businesses like formal companies, and many of us have no interest in doing that. So I'll close it. There are outsourcing companies that will pay be good money to take over my accounts, and I can be rid of the hassle. Many other microbusinesses, including painters, handymen, and mechanics, are simply going "cash only" to dodge IRS reporting entirely. It's not worth the time or the effort just to comply with some asinine regulations.

sorry i just don't see what the issue is here

i purchase something, i make a note of it in the books, i file a receipt, i make a record of it, takes about two seconds, i'm just not seeing the issue here, folks, sorry

coin dealers are mostly a bunch of GOP fuckwits, i'm not in favor of giving them a license to keep more untaxed $ in their pockets

It's a matter of keeping every single receipt from every single person I exchange money with, all year long. It's a matter of tallying those receipts at the end of the year, figuring out who I paid an aggregated $600 to over the course of the entire year, pestering each of them for their TAX ID number, writing 1099's for EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM, spending the additional time and money to stuff the 1099's into envelopes and mail them, and THEN filing form A for EACH AND EVERY ONE of those 1099-A's with the IRS by Feb 28 AND filing the associated Form 1096 by February 28.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume that I have 16 client meetings every year. Because I'm a good business person, I have "Reputable Local Coffee Company" provide several kinds of coffee and donuts for each meeting. I am now required to keep all of those receipts (and no, I don't currently), and total them after January 1. If I paid $601 for coffee and donut's throughout the year, I have to contact "Reputable Local Coffee Company", fight my way past the nitwits out front to some sort of owner or office person (and woe is me if it's another sole prop and he's actually working, then it could take a FEW phone calls), get their employer ID, write them a 1099, and send them the 1099 by January 31. Then I have to submit the IRS THEIR copy of his 1099 AND submit a 1096 to "confirm" that I've sent it. And all of this happens before I even start to do my own taxes.

Even worse, this is all for JUST ONE "vendor". I came to the conclusion that I really didn't want to deal with this after perusing my ledger and realizing that I had at least NINETEEN vendors last year that I'd have to repeat this process for. Nineteen! And my business is TINY! I can't imagine what the slightly larger small businesses (you know, the ones with real stores or offices) are going to have to deal with. I ran a business, with real employees and everything, for most of the last decade, and I'd guess that we would have been sending out hundreds of 1099's a year if these rules had been in place at the time. We would have needed a full time accountant just to keep track of it all!

Paid the power company more than $600 for the year? Gotta send them a 1099. Paid the carpet cleaner more than $600 for the year? Gotta send them a 1099. Paid the licensed business up the road to resurface and re-stripe your parking lot? Gotta send them a 1099. Run a knickknack store? Gotta send your suppliers 1099's. Run an antique shop and paid some guy $800 for an old dresser? Gotta send him a 1099 (and have FUN getting HIS social security number). Fill up the gas tank on the "company" car every morning at the gas station on the corner? Gotta send them a 1099.

THIS IS STUPID.

My field is software development, and not accounting, and I have zero interest in becoming an accountant. If the goose-steppers want to force every small business owner to become an accountant, I'm just going to stop being a small business owner. I don't make enough money at it for it to be worth the headache or the hassle.

the equivalence of a mortgage.

Come get it.

I am not the only one either.
I think many many many people have
no idea how much this is already hated.

Watching people let themselves get
robbed by the likes of a punk named
baucus is sad, but in the long run,
people get what they deserve. They
cheered it on themselves.

peddling that this is a "right wing talking point" with no factual basis.

will have the effect of driving more and more of the economy in to an underground economy where less revenue is reported and taxed. Take a look at Greece as an example of where this happened. The bureaucracy and cost of doing business was so high that very few people actually followed the law and as a result revenues to the Gov't were much lower than what they could have been.

People run businesses to make a living, not to service the Government. At some point the regulatory burden becomes too onerous and people either fold up and close the doors, or ignore the laws and cheat. Either option is not good for society.

if the coin dealers haven't been doing this i have to assume it's because they've been dealing in stolen property and/or evading income tax PROBABLY BOTH

i was about the only honest self-employed business person i've ever met, here's a clue train people, self employment is not supposed to be a license to cheat and to steal

anyone who properly documented their expenses for their schedule Cs already has evidence of what they're spending on purchases

nothing to see here, frankly

At what point is enough enough? It's not enough that when I buy a new computer at Best Buy I track the expense with credit card and keep receipts....but now I have to file a 1099 on Best Buy too?? IDIOCY. What's next? Requiring that I provide proof of the business status from the secretary of state that the business was authorized to operate int the state too? Verify the EIN of each company that I do a purchase with the IRS?

Times are tough and shit like this just makes life harder.

They're the government, they just do. If you don't give it to them, you're a bad citizen. The gov't needs to know exactly what you are doing with their money at all times. With small 501s, such as activist organizations, there is an explicit mission directing the IRS to "keep tabs" on such organizations and selectively audit them.

Might as well tell the IRS how many times you take a shit, too.

if they were going to make a claim for deduction on the schedule C. But NOW you will have to send a 1099 to the store you purchased something over $600 from. You will have to send a 1099 to your cell phone company. To the restaurant you hosted 7 dinners at.

You don't have an issue with this? Fine. But millions and millions of people will have an issue with this. And they will vote Republican over it.

At least not as a separate category, declaring all of your individual buying habits.

That's called being audited, fer Christ's sake.

when i get $600 from someone i get a 1099 -- this has been true for 20 years

when i give them $600 THEY don't get a 1099, they are somehow special and don't have to pay taxes?

look i'm sorry that a buncha GOP restaurant owners and coin dealers will now be getting 1099s and have to pay tax on their income...oops...NOT

i will fill out these 1099s (have you seen these forms, they're SHORT, takes about two seconds to fill out) WITH GLEE

i am sick of a world where only *i* pay taxes

level of filing we will have to do as small business people. My objection has nothing to do with wanting to cheat. Actually, I am offended that people think this is the objection.

The objection is the the IRS is now adding a massive amount of make-work to what already has to be done for them. Why do they think they have unlimited access to my TIME?

Yes they do. Some of us already work from JAN - JUL/AUG just to pay the gov't.

28% Fed income tax
05% State income tax
14% self employment tax
01% business personal property tax
03% gov't required licenses and fees
03% for CPA tax preparation

02% sale tax on personal purchases
03% property tax on house
02% gasoline tax

61% tax total

and that would be 5% - 20% higher if I lived in state that had a higher state income tax, had a county tax, or if my income was higher. And now they add insult to injury by heaping more and more regulations and required paperwork on us. At this rate it will just be easier to fire my four employees, close the doors, and take a W-2 job. So I'll take home $10K-$15K less per year. But have less stress, less risk, and only work a 40 hour week for a change. But at this point it's looking like a better option all the time.

a 1099 is about the simplest form there is, frankly

this is much ado about nothing

i have RECEIVED a 1099 whenever being paid more than $600 FOR FUCKING YEARS

but somehow those who GET $600 a year from me don't have to get a 1099 and don't have to declare/pay taxes on that income, fuck that noise, this injustice has been going on for at least two decades

i'm sorry coin dealers can't make enough by buying gold as "scrap" and then selling it for $1200 a fucking ounce, the bloodsuckers, 500% profit ain't enough for them, they want to get out of paying taxes too????

Then why don't you get you ass over here and fill it out for me?

Big whoop. You RECEIVED a form. This new requirement means I have to

1. separately track all expenditures over $600
2. Get the tax id/EIN for the business.
3. track down the mailing address to send the 1099, which may be different than the place of purchase
4. fill out the forms
5. stuffing envelops
6. send one to the place where I spend more than $600
7. send another one to the IRS

This is just more time out of my life every year that I'll never get back, or more money out of my pocket to pay someone to do it for me. It's death by a thousand cuts. Do YOU know the tax id for telephone provider? Getting the tax id and address will be a HUGE pain in the ass. How many fucking hours will I have to spend on hold and fighting some IVR system to get to a customer service rep in India who will drop my call after 45 minutes of waiting when he tries to transfer me to the right department? Now multiply this by a 100 for each place that I spend over $600.

Bozos that have never run a business will never understand.

Then I guess you won't mind doing mine for me?

I estimate I will need to fill out well over 200.

from your total overall rate.
It's mind-boggling how few people (even edumacated ones) understand this basic concept.