You don't like the Taliban and what they do to women, then bomb Saudi Arabia!

The Taliban are Wahhabis. Al-Qaeda's leadership is Wahhabi. Taliban and Al-Qaeda are not the same thing, but Wahhabism is all the same. Wahhabism is a radical version of Suni Islam which is inherently misogynist, homophobic, and reactionary. Unlike traditional Suni Islam, Wahhabism believes that there should be no separation between church and state, to use an American analogy.

Wahhabism is taught in a global network of religious schools, called madrassas, that are financed by the government of Saudi Arabia. Boys are taught from a very early age to think of females as subservient species, hate gays, hate Jews, and wish for the obliteration of Israel. They are also taught that martyrdom is a good thing.

Here is a link to a PBS Frontline documentary on the Wahhabi madrassas:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saudi/

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saudi/analyses/madrassas.html

The US rescued the Islamic radicals that were the Mujahideen from defeat and helped them win. Women and girls lost!

The problem in Afghanistan is that we were helping the extremists kill the progressives rather than the other way around.

The 6 Muslim countries that were part of the Soviet Union have gender equality and universal literacy; nearby Afghanistan and Pakistan, both of which have had various Islamic and pro-Washington factions in power, are among the worst in the world on those metrics.

We could have stopped radical Islam before it become a problem; instead we destroyed the one force in the world powerful enough to contain it.

gone after the country that actually participated in the 9/11 attacks and the oil theft would have been much more lucrative.

The U.S.-funded Afghan insurgents were called mujahideen, an Arabic word that means "strugglers" or "strivers." The word has its orgins in Islam, and is related to the word jihad, but in the context of the Afghan war, it may be best understood as referring to "resistance."

The mujahideen were organized into different political parties, and armed and supported by different countries, including Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, as well as the United States, and they gained significantly in power and money during the course of the Afghan-Soviet war.

The legendary fierceness of the mujahideen fighters, their stringent, extreme version of Islam and their cause—expelling the Soviet foreigners—drew interest and support from Arab Muslims seeking an opportunity to experience, and experiment with, waging jihad.

Among those drawn to Afghanistan were a wealthy, ambitious, and pious young Saudi named Osama bin Laden and the head of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad organization, Ayman Al Zawahiri.

http://terrorism.about.com/od/warinafghanistan/ss/AfghanistanWar_3.htm

And by God I mean money.

It's sad that this country is so myopic and ignorant of the real situation on the ground in Afghanistan and the entire Arabic world. Our media loves to broadbrush this religion as some homogenous group and in an inferior light. I think it's arrogant as all hell to think the US is the paragon of virtue and values and that with that attitude it's antagonized more Afghans, Iraqis and others than anything short of a predator drone attack. The bitch about imperialistic adventures is those your fighting live there...they can wait you out...drain you of blood and treasure. Others have tried to dominate this region and all have failed, what makes this country feel so exceptional?

Any real change or revolution must come from within...self determined and not imposed. We had a golden moment following the fall of the Taliban in late 2001 to seed such change but supported a corrupt warlord instead...squandering years and opportunities. Now we're stuck in the middle of a civil war with an unseen enemy that may be controlled but never dominated.

U S of A

were from Saudi Arabia, with the exception of Fayez Banihammad, who was from the United Arab Emirates.

We need to move away from the idea that war is good for women.

War increases violence, rape, poverty, sex trafficking, loss of medical care and clean water, lack of access to health services.

I don't understand how anyone equates anything in war with bettering the lives of women.

Laura Bush gave a speech on European TV on the eve of our invasion of Afghanistan. Laura spoke to the women in Afghanistan, none of which have TVs, that they were going to be liberated by the US.

Some liberation it turned out to be!

The Obama Administration has been using the MSM to sell its misguided war in Af/Pak by appealing to our empathy for the fate of the women and girls in Afghanistan. Never mind that among the worst offenders are our allies in the former Norther Alliance.

The Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA), which opposed the Taliban while we were trying to strike a pipeline deal with them just prior to 9-11, remains adamant that foreign occupation of Afghanistan is one of the biggest impediments to the emancipation of women.

RAWA's website:

http://www.rawa.org/index.php

that's the real story behind this, not the bs excuse being given by the Saudi and oil officials:

Saudi Arabia ceases to develop crude oil fields

http://peakoil.com/production/saudi-arabia-ceases-to-develop-crude-oil-fields/

Do you donate it to women's rights causes in Saudi Arabia or do you just spend it on yourself?

As to more money in my pocket, the never ending Great Recession took care of that!

As George Carlin once said, the only way to believe in the American Dream is to be sleep.

production is also declining.

And no one gives a shit. Can't get a 10-post discussion going on this issue to save my fucking life on this board.

Oh how I have tried...

Those of you with young children are doing them a grave disservice by ignoring this situation.

we would be working round the clock to free ourselves of fossil fuel dependency.

This would have to be a multi-faceted approach, not only working on synfuels but also retrofitting existing communities to make them less auto-dependent. (This would have the added benefit of creating jobs.)

Unfortunately, we have dumb, short-sighted, greedy leadership, especially in the corporate world.

Just a thought...

is more important that climate change will ever be. The issue of oil/resource depletion will handle GW quite nicely.

On the potty mouth thing, I'm not the only one on this board that uses colorful language. Not by a long shot. But, yet, it is my use of it that you chose to call out. Why is that? When I use certain words it's the times when I am being deadly serious. Or it's frustration. Though I will try, since you mentioned it, to refrain from using such language, you are more than welcome to discount my message if you catch me doing it again.

I'd also say we need to pay closer attention to business alliances with certain Saudis and our own. Certain Saudis have big business interest in our own media.

Even though Saddam was the bad man, we allied ourselves with a bad man (Kerzaghstan (sp) to promote our wars. But, Saddam was no friend of SA-and, from a Bill Moyer interview with a terrorist expert, some of the bombings could be laid at the feet of SA--where Arabs were sneaking into Iraq and causing civil mayhem.

It's amazing our corporate MSM made such a to do over Obama bowing, when Little Boots after 9/11 was holding hands and smooching. Hey, but the MSM told you who to blame even though fifteen of those alleged highjackers were from SA-and they received their flight training in the US. Considering SA has one of the worst human rights records, especially in regard to women, but they're in the game with the rest of the "big greedy boys."

I also will not forget that James Baker III represented the Saudis against the Jersey girls.

oh wait...

That's just the reason they're latching onto now that all the other justifications have fallen through. It's a matter of convenience, not genuine concern.

or banning abortion in the high-risk exchanges, and that are bothered that LGBTs are so bothered by their second class citizenship.

They also won't enlist to fight the wars they support!

Gotcha!

:)

Well, look at what we got here:

CIA Document Calls For Using Afghan Women as Messengers to Humanize the War

The August 9th issue of Time Magazine, with a cover picture of an Afghan woman, horribly disfigured last year because of the Taliban, is meant to pull at American heartstrings as it asks what will happen to Afghan women if the U.S. withdraws from the country. It has caused considerable comment in numerous publications and blogs (see below for links), including on the Feminist Peace Network blog.

Several serious issues have been raised: first that this appears to be a reduction of facts to support the war effort, and secondly that it is yet another callous use of women's lives to justify war. Reading the article in full (and I've seen a copy of the print edition), as well as the excerpt online, one is left wondering if the article is simply a piece of military propaganda. Time editor Rick Stengel, in his introduction to the article, seeks to frame it as a contribution to the existing debate about the war:

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/07/31-3

that expect the rest of us to fall for the same line of bullshit over and over again.

I, personally, don't mind shooting someone if they deserve to be shot, especially if the circumstances of saving an innocent victim or preventing violence that is likely to lead to severe injury or death are such that other ways might not be successful.

On the other hand...

One thing not mentioned in the post is, that for most women, school is forbidden.

Wanna really get radical? Continue the building of schools in Afghanistan and Pakistan, encouraging families to send their girls, and make the school, adn their homes and communities, safe places to be. Which means way more police.

That will do more damage, and undermine the progression of Wahhabism than any number of bombs ever will.

innocent people for corporate profits are just that, excuses, you will end up on the outside with us "little people".

Who was it that brought down the World Trade center in NYC, again?
:kick: & R

I think we should heavily invest in alternative energy and quit buying their oil. Since is is the House of Saud that holds all the gold, they make all the rules. What if they suddenly didn't have that steady flow of wealth?

We could develop energy, like other countries and help those who lag behind in such progress. Lead the world in making petroleum obsolete.

Not as exciting as war but far better.

Julie

We need them at home, alive and raising families, and contributing to the collective welfare in America.

Or anywhere else for that matter. :toast:

Julie

Thank you for the clarity.

Colin Powell and the Bush Administration gave $43 Million to the Taliban right before 9/11.

Laura Bush shed not one tear for the women there until her husband used women as a pretext to invade Afghanistan.

The title to your OP upends the hypocrisy around this nation's convenient, selective and hypocritical "outrage".

of Obama's Afghan strategery (sic) using our keyboards.

Hello, David!

:hi:

from these conflicts. They don't give a damn about the humanitarian angle in Afghanistan, Iraq or anywhere else. These conflicts were a big money grab in which they made a big score. Liberation and women's issues were the last things on their list. They also had no intention of harming their relationship with Saudi Arabia. As long as there is money to be made you don't bite the hand who feeds you. Does any one think that W. and Laura are that interested in human rights in Afghanistan right now? Hell no. Mess with the pipeline and then you might see some action.

That is the true tragedy of this about this mess. The Bush Crime family messed up several countries during their reign of terror in order to become richer. It's not so different from what Prescott senior did to this country. Anyone who think this family and their allies are patriotic citizens are fooling themselves.

If so, you've allowed a justification for attacks on at least Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia and various African nations.

If you think we should to stay in Afghanistan to save the women, you must surely be for military intervention in these other areas as well, correct?

Or do you only care about women and gays from certain countries?

their treatment of women and gays?

When do you ship out?

About their treatment of women and gays?

But that's a nice bit of backpedaling. Seeing war as the solution to the world's problems is apparently a trait common to both neo-libs and -cons.

But again, are you willing to die in the liberation of these women by force? (And is that like spreading democracy?)

Can you answer another question or must all your conversations stay on the first premise only?

Yes, I might be willing to fight for their liberation. There's been no clear opportunity to do so, but if that were the real motive for the war, I can't say I would not do it. The horror stories on this topic get to me, like the stonings and executions or even the Taliban just sending the woman doctors and other professionals home.

I think we both agree that this stuff sucks. So where do we go from here? Do we invade all these countries? Do we kill them all? Tell me how we stop it? :shrug:

The CIA paper on using women as pawns in a propaganda effort to change public opinion on the unpopular Afghan war includes this passage:



We are being played for suckers by the same people that gave us such bullshit gems like the baby incubators in Kuwait, and Iraq's yellow cake.

We pressured South Africa into ending apartheid despite our own racist history, but we allow a total apartheid of women in Saudi Arabia while considering them an ally.

It's despicable, and shows clearly what our real values are.

You promise to not hit any women or children.
We want to "save" the women. We heard this argument before 2003, too. We had to "save" the Iraqis from Saddaam.
I remember our military saying that "smart bombs" only hit the bad guys.
This month, they say, over 500 Iraqis have been killed between various factions in Iraq. We sure helped them out didn't we?