How about a WEINER - GRAYSON ticket in 2016?

GUTs v GOP

But they likely would lose a national election VERY badly.



Ask George McGovern. Ask Walter Mondale.



They are the polar opposite of Sarah Palin and Newt Gingrich. And just as unelectable nationally.

I liked both of them but they weren't very passionate speakers, especially Mondale. Weiner & Grayson wouldnt take any crap or lies told by the republicans. They certainly wouldn't let millions of ignorant and illiterate hillbillies, like the tea baggers, control the national dialogue as the current administration let happen.

It would be a refreshing change to see bold, forceful leaders for a change who wouldn't sit idly by as their opponents lied about them. We have a serious 'guts' problem in the democratic party. The democratic party has had very few real leaders in the past twenty years, especially when Bush was in office.

....except that a Weiner/Grayson ticket might not win a single state in a national election.

They would make Palin look like a terrified wolf as Weiner & Grayson were flying overhead verbally blasting her from their helicopters.

:toast:

Cheers.

:beer:

we can't afford to wait.

That would be ONE HELL of a fantastic ticket.

Why wait? Actually, we cannot afford to wait.

people vs. corporations

...and Kucinich has never even won a statewide election, let alone a national one.


These folks might have the exact ideals you want in a leader, but they are unelectable nationally in this country.


If you want to lose 60%-40% and just about all 50 states, then make Feingold/Kucinich the Democratic ticket.

would blow a gasket.

But I also believe that if they gained any traction, they would be assassinated.
:kick: & R

Because that ticket has no national appeal to "gain traction."


I love Weiner and Grayson... absolutely love them.


But neither is electable in a national election.

Yeah, you have your finger on the pulse of America all right.:sarcasm:

Name a state... just one... where Grayson or Weiner could win. Just one.


In a liberal district, they are solid. And they're very valuable members of Congress.


But there isn't single state in the union where these guys could get more than 45% in a general election.



America is not a "center-right" nation.... but it isn't a "left" nation either.



DU is way to left of the American mainstream. That's a shame. But it is also political reality.



ps. if you think calling me "sensible" is somehow insulting, by all means, keep up with the childishness.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/6/28/879820/-Congressional-races-2010,-round-3:-Florida

District:FL-08
Location More or less the middle of FL, including Orlando map
Representative Alan Grayson (D)
VoteView ranking NA
First elected 2008
2008 margin 52-48 over Ric Keller
2006 margin NA
2004 margin NA
Obama margin 53-47
Bush margin 2004 55-45

Current opponents Confirmed Republicans include: Albert Kerr, William Collins, Daniel Fanelli, Patricia Sullivan, Armando Gutierrez, and Bruce O'Donoghue; plus lots of rumors - see the WIKI
Demographics Not unusual on what I track

Assessment This is a swing district, going for Bush twice before going for Obama; it's far from safe, but Grayson did just oust Keller. Grayson is very visible, and in ways I like a lot. He's got $1.5 million COH; of the confirmed Republicans, only O'Donoghue has much - about $300K
SSP rating: Tossup

My rating: Lean D. Grayson's name recognition and huge fund raising ability count for something.

No one else could have resurrected the Republicans like that...nobody.

and won. Only through carefully crafted inaction and obsequious deference to their "values" by the democrats could they ever hope to garner another win. This is one of the few issues that all the power brokers in both parties agree on, nobody else is allowed into the game. If our corporate masters had to buy yet another team it might hurt profits, therefore there will be no other teams.

i don't claim to know the solution, but Weiner's support of Israel would not be a deal breaker for me. Obama's lack of progressive actions is though.

"The Jooooows control the U.S."

:tinfoilhat:

:eyes:

Maybe Olivier Stone should do a movie about it.

our relationship with Israel has caused so many problems over the years i can't even begin to list them all. :(

It wouldn't matter if Israel nuked millions of innocent people, they would still be considered the 'chosen' country of 'god''. It sounds insane how we're allowing religious fable to determine our foreign policy. 

And with respect to Israel, I believe being owned by them has been a curse to the United States and has cost us trillions in wars and direct cash payments to them for 40 years. Yeah, I know, they are called 'loan guarantees' but Israel doesn't even have to repay any of the loans. 

Wouldn't it be cheaper to move all Israelis to Nevada and then bulldoze all of those ancient religious shrines in Israel? Would any real 'god'' want people killing each other over a lot of useless rock-covered land? 

What do we get from being Israel's ally?  Massive debts, alienation of the entire Muslim world, terrorism, 9/11 attacks, West Bank starvation, 241 dead servicemen in Lebanon, 34 killed aboard the USS Liberty, war after war (Iraq War, Kuwait War, Afghanistan War, Gaza War, etc...) and constant death, destruction and division. Wow, what a return on our investment! 

Since Nevada most resembles their rock-covered country give most of the state to Israel. It would be cheaper to build cities and homes for every Israeli here in the US than to stay on the pathway to doom we're on. 

And no, just because I dared to say anything about Israel doesn't mean I'm against the Jewish people. I'd just like to see our country's leaders think about the welfare and safety of Americans for a change. That's their job. They're US representatives, not Israeli representatives. 

why we should not be so closely tied to Israel. you make excellent points. this religion thing, man i try to respect freedom of religion, i really do. but this religious fanaticism i can not abide. religion may well be what dooms us as a species. it's not really the religion though, it's the way religious people make decisions based on faith, not logic. that is a recipe for disaster - as you pointed out with all the wars, death, destruction, all in the name of religion. we had no right to create "Israel" after WWII and i would be absolutely fine with moving the whole lot to Nevada indeed. save the whole world a bunch of horrible unnecessary problems. i hate to think we are going to ruin not just our own country, but the entire world for one groups fanatical religious beliefs.

And they seem to want the chaos, uncertainty, division and wars. It all feeds their demented prophecies. I remember hearing when Bush was president how a lot of fundamentalist churches in the US were openly praying for Armageddon. And they viewed the Iraq War as a purely holy war of a 'Christian' nation against the Muslim world. Even Bush and Rumsfeld talked about it being a 'holy war'. I believe Bush wouldn't have been able to lie us into a war if the country we were invading was another 'Christian' nation. I've never heard one person in the media or in politics address that one crucial and truthful point.

But through time Christians have always been able to first demonize their opponents as 'less than human', savages, anti-god or 'lowly' Muslims and then go to war against them. In our own 'Christian' nation we burned witches at the stake, enslaved the blacks and practiced genocide against native Americans. As it turned out most of the witches who were burned to death weren't killed for being 'witches', but rather just a way to steal their possessions. We enslaved millions of blacks to work on 'Christian' plantations and later, 'Christian organizations like the KKK terrorized black people to keep them in line. And 'Christians' demonized Indians by first calling them 'savages' and 'unchristian' so they could justify slaughtering men, women, children and babies so 'Christians' could steal their land.

I agree with you about the dangers of religious fanaticism. Christian fundamentalists would truly love to see the end of the world because they believe they will be beamed up in the rapture. But what they don't realize is that if they were the cause of the end of the earth would their 'god' look favorably upon them? But fundamentalist Christians don't use rational thought, logic or science to guide them. They twist and manipulate the Bible in anyway they want to justify their radical beliefs and inhuman actions.

God help spare us from the evils of religious fanaticism...

and it's a HORRIBLE prophecy! Personally, I would much rather go the route of John Lennon's "Imagine" - we're going to have to if we want to survive.
Hopefully as knowledge is more readily accessable these days religious fanatisism will start to decline. I just hope it's soon enough.

Imagine - by John Lennon -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okd3hLlvvLw

"Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one "

In 1990, on the 10th anniversary of John Lennon's murder, Pat Robertson, the television 'evangelist', spent an hour condemning John Lennon as being anti-god, communistic and evil.

Pat Robertson, the same radical right winger who proposed assassinating other world leaders, used a flip chart with every line from Lennon's song "Imagine". Robertson attacked every line, one by one. He even attacked the line 'brotherhood of man'. And of course he attacked the line where Lennon said 'and no religion too'. But look at all the wars, ignorance, hatred, division and killing done in the name of 'god' and religion. John Lennon was right. If religion was eliminated from the face of the earth our world would be such a better place to live. It would be one less thing for people to 'fight and die for'.

The real evil was in the hate-filled hypocrite Robertson. Pat Robertson obviously never even bothered to listen to one of Lennon's last songs titled "Beautiful Boy", a song about a father's love for his son. I doubt Robertson would even understand the song about a father's love for his son even though the Bible is a story about a father's (God) love for his son (Jesus).

It is unfortunate that Robertson is a 'leader' who has the ability to dupe and manipulate so many illiterate, ignorant and hate-filled religious fanatics into believing his right wing, evil agenda. It is sad how Robertson's clout among the religious extremists in the US caused them to vote for the likes of the evil criminal GW Bush, who lied us into two wars. The same religious misfits are all gathering around the latest religious dunce, Sarah Palin.

God help spare us from the evilness and ignorance of the republican party and religious fanatics in the United States. John Lennon would be bravely speaking out against the tyranny of the right wing mutants of today just as he did while he was alive. John was eloquent in his commentary of his times and are deeply missed today. We the people need more leaders like John Lennon to speak out for us.

It is too bad we lost such a great voice for social justice and all of the wonderful music John could have created for the world during the past (almost) 30 years since he was murdered. The same delusional sickness that consumed the mind of the murderer of Lennon also resides in the mind of people like Pat Robertson and his followers.

If Jesus were to return today right wing republicans would crucify him all over again because Jesus fed the hungry, gave to the poor, associated with flawed people, helped the sick and gave hope to the downtrodden). And if somehow Jesus was pulled down from the cross before he died, right wingers would stand around demanding he produce an insurance card before giving him the health care he needed to live. And since Jesus didn't have 'insurance' they would stand around and watch him die, calling him a deadbeat, lazy, spoiled and a drug addict, just as the current crop of 'Christian' republicans are saying about the poor and unemployed today.

I like what Alan Grayson said, "May god have mercy on their souls", but I've seen no sign they even have souls...

to see what those fuckers are up to! I'm sure you know this, but most people don't know, the reason it's called the 700 Club is that that's the amount of money they expect you to give per year - minimum! i feel bad for the people duped by him.

it's funny cause every time i see Imagine performed and they get to the line "and no religion too" is when everyone bursts into cheers and applause!

pat robertson, like most all evangelicals, is a con artist. i hate that good people like John Lennon get killed and Pat is still around to promote his hate filled right wing christian propaganda. you're right - he prey's on the weak, the poor, the unintelligent. guess that's what he means by, "let us prey." sick fucker.

i'm not religious, but i was raised methodist and what you say about jesus is true - he helped those less fortunate and evangelicals totally ignore that - using religion purely for propaganda/mind control purposes focusing mostly on the hellfire and damnation parts of the bible as they promote hate, fear, and intolerance.

if only they knew the truth...

:rofl:

So Israel caused all that huh?

"believe being owned by them has been a curse to the United States"

Do you actually believe that stupid shit you wrote?

Come on, level with me.

we may not be owned by Israel, but we are controlled by them. All of our foreign policies prove it. If you have nothing substantial to contribute to this discussion and wish to just roll around on the floor laughing at your fellow DU members, I politely ask you to to leave those of us who wish to talk about this like adults alone. Goodnight.

Sharon to Peres: "We Control America"
Congressional Pandering to Israel proves him Right

"On October 3, 2001, I.A.P. News reported that according to Israel Radio (in Hebrew) Kol Yisrael an acrimonious argument erupted during the Israeli cabinet weekly session last week between Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and his foreign Minister Shimon Peres. Peres warned Sharon that refusing to heed incessant American requests for a cease-fire with the Palestinians would endanger Israeli interests and "turn the US against us. "Sharon reportedly yelled at Peres, saying "don't worry about American pressure, we the Jewish people control America."

"The Israelis control the policy in the congress and the senate."

-- Senator Fullbright, Chair of Senate Foreign Relations Committee: 10/07/1973 on CBS' "Face the Nation".

more: http://www.mediamonitors.net/khodr49.html

So, do you think they control the banks, media and world economy too?

:tinfoilhat:

BTW, your "Jews secretly control things" shtick has been around for centuries. Your new packaging isn't fooling anyone.

whatever dude go bother someone else.

I'm sure your copy is quite dog-eared.

and please just leave me alone now. you're being an asshole.

Why am I an asshole?

Because I'm calling you on your thinly-veiled bigotry?

you are going on ignore damn i tried to be nice about it - LEAVE ME ALONE!!! you think you know me from a couple of posts on a message board - i'll say it again stop harassing me and LEAVE ME ALONE! Damn!

Well, at least we know where you stand now.

At least any displaced Nevadans can be taken care of.

The whole Israel idea did not work, and I wonder why anyone in the early 20th century thought it would.

It would have been better to cut out a piece of Germany, because of the guilt on those displaced. They wouldn't have the moral authority to fight that.

Really?

There are millions of Israelis, past and present, who disagree with you.

They and their country keep existing despite the wishes of people like you.

who want to push us into the sea" and have to live in a security state? Why not live somewhere else, where you don't have to worry about that?

Nevada looks better every day.

Because there more then a few connections to the area Israel is in, that made it the perfect spot for a Jewish state.

And their enemies are only enemies because they choose to be to. If they want, they could live in peace with Israel. Egypt did it.

Guess i just don't identify with that. I don't live on land my ancestors have been on for very long.

Who cares, so long as you have a long, safe and happy life, where your "people" originally came from? The opposite attitude is what causes all this shit, from Ireland to the Middle East to the Balkans.

If turning my home state over to the Jewish people would save the world all this death and destruction, I'd say have it.

I guess you can't identify with being a hated minority in various countries for centuries. I guess you can't identify with the cultural yearning to go back to the homeland you originally kicked-out of. Or having religious ceremonies that ended with the toast, "Next year in Jerusalem."

I guess you can't identify with being pushed to the edge of annihilation then being given a homeland but guess what? People are still trying to destroy you.

They have their home back. They're not going to give it up. Not their enemies or to people like you who think they don't deserve their own homes.

presidential material,
Weiner and Israel

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/06/anthony_weiner_strongly_defend.html

It would be pretty one note and I'd be pretty quiet about it, at least. One less...lol

Weiner and Grayson have the thoughtfulness (and Left-ness) to win support with the thoughtful/theoreticians amongst the base... but they've got the fire in the bellies, and the everyman-winning willingness to actually stand up and do something... argue and fight and taunt the incoming death threats... that would actually win the independents that are, in my opinion, largely just looking for someone who will at least deliver something in exchange for the screwing that everyone expects from all politicians.

I dispute scheming daemon's assertions... and think these two, if they could put together an organization, could really go far. In fact, given the impatience of the public at the moment, sooner might be an even better bet than later... if things ever settle down and the electorate becomes accustomed to this latest economic implosion's levelling of the global workforce standard of living (in other words, if the workers in the US become reconciled to having their standard of living become more like that of the Mexican "middle class")... then the traditional American taste for mediocre politicians (which informs scheming daemon's analysis, methinks) may begin to re-assert itself.

People are tired of intellectually dishonest politicians of either major political party. Guts, integrity and intelligence would take Weiner & Grayson a long way. People are sick of being forced to vote for the same weak-kneed and corporate-owned people over and over again.

I'd rather have a person in office who fulfilled 50% of his promises completely (100%), than a politician who only fulfilled 20% of his promises halfway (50%).

How many politicians can anyone name with guts, integrity and intelligence? Not many I bet...

Well, everyone who remotely agrees... but the intelligent will appreciate the intelligence, and everyone confused by the intelligence will appreciate the forcefulness to get things done... it's win-win.

Someone should send them an e-mail. ;)

I'd go for that. In any order you want to list them.

I like their approach to problems...and their intellect and style too. I'd vote for them!

Do it.

You'd need to have one westerner or midwesterner on the ticket IMO.

Is America ready for that?

I was surprised by how little race mattered to a majority of voters in 2008, so perhaps we're ready for another breakthrough.

Maybe we've made some progress on this over the years.

Leaving produce in the fields and on the trees, after the first harvesting, for the poor man and the wayfarer?

In the Gospels, we are told that (even at the time of Christ), the Gentiles - and I speak as one - were a byword for cruelty among the Jews, whose leaders could not, themselves, have anyone crucified.

I'd prefer that they ran in 2012, of course.

Rep. Inslee was in the basement with Conyers for the Downing St. minutes hearing. He's another true-blue fighter to add to the list of great Dems.

Don't shoot the messenger! :hide:

A WEINER would just be a heartbeat away from a BUSH...

Yes, yes, I know, a woodchuck is going to chew off my face for saying that.

Mondale ran on being a capable technocrat. Grayson or Weiner would run on values, and not take shit from conservatives.

Grayson is very inspiring to you and me. I don't think he would be to people farther to the right than us, which is about 75% of the country.

--AFTER impeachment? People didn't approve of the conduct, but they were really impressed that he fought back and refused to step down. That appeals to those who mostly don't pay attention more than any particular right or left stand on issues.

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Grayson could be an excellent whip, or -- if Dean won't take back the job -- DNC chair.

How about Weiner replaces Rahm for COS?

I wanted him to run for president. I'm ready to vote for him NOW - can we start a campaign organization?


mark

Whoever runs in 2016 is likely to be someone we've never heard of yet.

:headbang:

that's my porn name! :rofl:

Would be an awesome ticket too! :evilgrin:

Can Rep. Jay Inslee be next in line? That guy is great too. He was in the basement Downing Street Minutes hearing with Conyers and fights corporate oligarchy too.