Democratic Underground Hear Me Now!!!

I have been a democrat all of my life.(I am 46) I served my country in uniform for 7 years, including Desert Shield/Storm. I am a yellow dog democrat. I visit DU everyday. Though I do not post very often, I feel I must do so now. As a democrat, I am sickened at what I see. Much too often I have seen the democratic party implode upon itself. Do I think that President Obama has been perfect? No I do not. But given the political Climate of today I believe he has accomplished more that I could have hoped for. Has he accomplished everything that we expected, no he has not but I for one am not ready to throw in the towel. Instead we should be working to increase our congressional majority so that he can accomplish more. If you honestly believe that he has been a disapointment or a failure or that a repub president would be better then I suggest you leave the democratic party and join with the republicans because it is obvious by alot of post on DU that that is where you belong. We must support our Democratic officials not undermine them. If you truly desire a repub majority or repub president then all I can say is keep doing what your doing because you will make it happen. You must remember, the political climate is not the same as the 60's , 70's, or even 80's., It is more extreme, more hostile, more polarized, and more partisan. Sometimes we have to take baby steps. Sometimes you have to lose the battle in order to win the war.(no pun intended) I realize we have morphed into a society of instant gratification but remember PATIENCE IN A VIRTUE. If you want to see this country destroyed then I encourage you to vote green, or sit out the midterms, or support a primary challenger in '12. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." And we are well on our way to repeating it. Something to think about.

Who are these people who take to the mountain tops with tablets in hand to proclaim what nine hundred other disciplinarians did before them?

Just give it up, y'all.

This attempt to browbeat an infrequent poster into silence is unbecoming. Please let people post as they wish without the insults, especially long time DUers who don't post all the time. If you disagree with the poster, then please say how and why. Snark isn't appropriate for infrequent posters who have been on DU for many years.

Please don't assume that a poster who only posts infrequently is being told what to post. That's insulting in itself.

Thanks.

are really just trolls paid by Rahm or the DCCC. Didn't you know that? I have been told as much several times, that my cover is blown. The amazing thing is that they are still paying me, in spite of my blown cover.

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Proof?

as he or she wishes. Browbeating infrequent posters is not a progressive value, as far as I know. Thanks.

No matter how often they're repeated. Thanks.

to keep electing Democrats to office should not say so? Truly? It's not a talking point. It's an opinion, and one I share. Browbeating people for their opinions is just plain rude. It is especially so when someone who rarely posts is moved to post an opinion.

I'd be saying the same thing if the opinion was in opposition to my own. Infrequent posters need to be encouraged, not browbeaten into silence, in my opinion.

It's OK to snark at my posts. I post frequently, and you know me. To snark at someone whose posts aren't familiar to you is just rude.

agree with you to STFU. And as far as I can see NO ONE has told the poster to STFU. But I don't care who the hell makes the same tired ass talking points, the points are tired, stale, and put out to stifle dissent and I will say so regardless of what you say.

You might try taking your own advice but you only like to give orders you never actually try taking suggestions.

WC: Obama sucks! Reid sucks! Pelosi sucks!
WC: Obama sucks! Reid sucks! Pelosi sucks!
WC: Obama sucks! Reid sucks! Pelosi sucks!
WC: Obama sucks! Reid sucks! Pelosi sucks!
WC: Obama sucks! Reid sucks! Pelosi sucks!
WC: Obama sucks! Reid sucks! Pelosi sucks!
WC: Obama sucks! Reid sucks! Pelosi sucks!
WC: Obama sucks! Reid sucks! Pelosi sucks!

DL: You seem to want Republicans to win.

WC: What? How can you say such a thing? What ever gave you that idea? I just want people to know how worthless the Democratic Party is. That does not mean I want them to be defeated.

I read these as, "Sure, the Dems are screwing you over, but the Repugs will screw you over twice as bad, so be happy!" To me, that just seems like such a ridiculous position to take. Why do we have to take abuse from either party? Why should we put up with an abusive spouse just because the neighbor has one that is worse?

We need a new direction, and we won't get it as long as we remain willing to put up with the direction we are headed. We are heading toward a cliff. And I don't give a rat's ass if we go over the cliff at ten miles an hour instead of ninety (although, it is even difficult to argue that we are slowing down).

I say, turn the damn bus. It truly doesn't matter much which uniform the bus driver is wearing when they are all chanting "Drill, baby, drill" and "War, baby, war" and "Cut, baby, cut" and "Steal, baby, steal" with their foot on the accelerator.

Just do it -- stop fishing for praise on DU about it.

turn into hating him and wishing for President Palin???

Of course I support the president and I acknowledge that he's done some very good things..and I give him lots of credit for getting them done in such a hostile environment. But, I'm not thrilled with other things he's done and, yes, it disappoints me tremendously.

Those here who seem to think that unless we all think the president is absolutely perfect in every thing he says and does, that we don't support him, or we hate him, or we want him to fail...are, in my opinion, doing a disservice to the party.

Haven't we always prided ourselves on our ability to think, discuss, agree, disagree and try to find solutions to problems? Republicans have always been the party that (in recent times) allows no dissent, no discussion..just absolute swearing of allegiance, no matter what, to the supreme leader.

Otherwise, you did a great job!

:thumbsup:

I have been a yellow dog dem for many years. I was a Clinton supporter in the primaries, but I am glad Obama won. I wanted more out of the HCR bill, but sumpins better than nuttin! Your post is "spot on".

:hi:

It's not the LIBERAL UNDERGROUND ... or the SOCIALIST UNDERGROUND ... or the PROGRESSIVE UNDERGROUND.

For a long time, I came to this site looking for other Democrats who had good arguments for head to head battles with the GOP and the right wing.

And DU was very helpful. I would post regularly on USATODAY, also as JoePhilly. And I would leverage, not only what I know on various issues, but also what I learned from the Democrats who post here on DU.

On the USATODAY site, the right wingers would call me a unamerican, commie, socialist, fascist, homo, baby killer.

And in recent months I find that on DU, if I chose to post more, I'd likely be called the exact opposite.

Its getting too hard to find a thread in which there are Democrats battling the insanity of the far right Republicans because they are too busy fighting each other.

Meanwhile, the GOP laughs its ass off.

that welcomes Democrats and other progressives. That is in the rules.

We even have a Socialist Progressive forum right here at DU--http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=395

If I wanted to find arguments to support my Socialist Progressive views so I could battle the GOP, that is where I would go. I'd also go there to generate interest in my preferred PRIMARY candidates.

When on DU, I spend my time in General Discussion and GD:P .... where I hope to find additional ammunition to fight the far right maniacs. And I used to be able to do that easily.

But in recent months, its become almost impossible.

Instead, there is an endless stream of posts about how Obama is a corporatist who hates teachers, unionns and the average person.

See ... I go to other sites, like USATODAY, which is read by many in the middle, and I argue that OBAMA is not a SOCIALIST ... not a MARXIST ... not MAO, not HITLER. I do so because I know moderates from the left and the right read that site. And I don;t want the comments to be nothing by right wing propaganda.

SO I argue that the economic trends before the stimulus, and after, are very different. And that the claim that Obama "took over" the financial industry, the auto industry, and the health care industry, are LIES. I get called baby killer. Traitor. UnAmerican.

And yet now, when I come to DU for help in fighting that fight ... I find DU members squabbling with each other.

The far right is DEDICATED to ensure that the Dems and the left get NOTHING that they want. Period.

And they laugh their asses off at the way we now squabble.

And it will only get worse as the party continues to drift to the right.

The GOP laughs hardest when we pass their screwed up legislation while they get to take cover by voting against it. That is the biggest joke of all.

When the media reports polls on any issue, they LUMP the angry right, and the angry left together. And then, the claim that clearly "Obama has gone too far".

They ignore the fact that the left wanted more.

And when it happens, the cowardly Dems in Congress pull back and "compromise" even more.

And thank you for your service. :kick:

I considered this a semi-oblique "President Palin" slag.

the Dem officials, but disagreeing with their line of thinking is not the same as not supporting them. If I came here and said to DU that my husband won't allow me to have opinions of my own, that doing so would mean I didn't support him, what kind of response would people give me? "He has has a hard job; he just needs more time! You just don't appreciate him! You're crazy and a whiner!"???

:rofl:

:rofl:

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - President Theodore Roosevelt

OMFG, that is unintentionally hilarious.

at least as many times as the opposite is said. AT LEAST.

Also needs saying over and over, no matter how many times it is unrecced by the unreccing crew.

There is great truth in your post. There are republican talking points in many of the others, who claim to be "the left".

In my humble experience, observation, and opinion, the honest left has always taken the side of the people. Right now, more than anything, the people need the left to help them identify and get relief from onrushing fascism. And for those who call this administration fascist, we will surely know YOU by your words.

I will not come back and defend my post. Pointless, this place is too polarized.

Wat

:sarcasm: whatever dude - if they suck, they won't get my vote or i WILL support a primary challenger. good luck getting "the troops" in line. us "lefties" aren't having it so repeat it all you want. i love how YOU WONT EVEN COME BACK TO DEFEND YOUR POST! yeah, i really want to be on your side you can't even defend your stance or Obama and we all know why!. obama sucks, we all know it, he needs a primary challenger - wake up! sheesh.

if our issue or agenda isn't being addressed as it should be, stick it out and fight for it WITHIN the party. Withdrawing your support from the party only means that the issue or agenda wasn't worth the effort in the first place. This is how the Democratic Party evolved over the years.

while I don't want it "destroyed", it does need to be fixed, REALLY fixed BADLY - you know like universal health care, tax the rich a lot, end the wars - stuff Dems SHOULD be doing but aren't! So don't ask me to blindly support Dems who have not only abandoned their ideals, but those of us who vote for them as well as the American people. We don't have time to wait centuries for gradual trickle down change and using Republicans as bogeymen to make us vote for Dems who in reality are pretty bad isn't going to work any longer.

So yes, I do support a primary challenger for Obama in 2012. One who will actually fight for real progressive values, end the wars FOR REAL, hold the rich accountable and tax them, etc. I'll grant you Obama is better than a republican, but we can, and should do much much much much better.

Only after a candidate is selected by the party do you have to either support the candidate or else remain silent.

After all, I thought that was a mistake.

to those who would say "if you are disappointed in Obama you want the GOP to win", that is not the purpose of the post. Please read and understand it. I have been disapointed as well, just read my sig line. I am the harshest critic I know. But I also know that threats to vote green, or sit out the elections, etc. do not help. We can be disapointed without udermining. We can be critical without helping the repubs. We can be hurt without being hurtful. We must keep our eye on the big picture, and on our goals. For if we let our disapointments, our criticisms, our hurt feelings divide us and distract us from the goal, we lose, and most importantly the country that I love and would give my life for, loses.

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This is just wrong to do. It is a personal attack against the OP.

Buh-bye!

You are incorrect.

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country. It isn't. My wife votes Democratic all the time but she gets involved about 5 minutes before she votes. She knows nothing about this Dem split. She does not watch cable news. She reads the newspaper but papers are getting less and less like the news.

The great many Dems will vote or not in Nov based on how they feel about their lives at the moment.

The Dems are staying in power based on Brand Loyalty that has been undeserved for 25 years.
The "New Democrat" Party is NOT the same as the old Democratic Party of FDR and LBJ.

I know it's a quaint notion that politicians should earn votes rather than demand them in a democracy, but some of us still believe it's a pretty good idea.

the people who apparently haven't learned a damn thing since the Clinton era.

How I vote is my damn business and I'm sick and tired of people fomenting the notion that the Democratic party is entitled to my vote. It is not. Politicians have to EARN my vote. Politicians who claim to be Democrats who brag to the right wing about how they ignored the left wing have not earned my vote. Politicians who undermine their own negotiations by throwing away options of the "left" before negotiations begin have not earned my vote. Politicians who constantly cater to corporations at the expense of human beings have NOT earned my vote. Politicians who continue the Bush era policies of eviscerating civil liberties have NOT earned my vote.

Are you getting yet or are we going to be subjected to more of these bullshit ham-fisted attempts to browbeat anyone who disagrees with you?

not read the post at all. Please don't browbeat an infrequent poster who has been on DU for years. Please let him or her speak. If you do not wish to read it, simply do not. Thanks!

There are some I know who refuse to come here because of the brow beating. All they wanted to do was give a comment. That is all.

:hi:

:toast:

you will vote the way I say or shut the fuck up contingent.

This is NOT even the first one of these posts I've seen today. And considering that all you do is put up OPs that do nothing more than tell others to shut up you have a HELL of a lot of nerve accusing me of browbeating any damn body. You'd better check the speck in your own damn eye before you have the nerve to say anything about what I said.

I am not interested in yet another vote my way or STFU post I don't care who it comes from.

as they stay within the forum rules. Still, you're free to ignore any thread you don't like. Nobody can tell you to STFU. Nor can you tell anyone to STFU. That's the beauty of DU. So, I'll post when I wish, and will expect you to do the same.

You don't get to tell me what I can and cannot say. So take your advice which is worth exactly what I paid for it and shove it. Go play nanny with someone else. I am not interested. I will continue to post what I want, when I want, how I want, and I will NOT be taking any orders from you.

There are things I wish were different/that he would have fought harder for but , all in all, I believe the President is doing an excellent job.

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Why don't the corporatists try compromising this time?

Bullying, browbeating, condescension and insults are foolish, futile tactics. But, if that's how you want to waste your time, have at it.

"I suggest you leave the democratic party and join with the republicans because it is obvious by alot of post on DU that that is where you belong."


X Extreme group insult aimed at all or some DU members.

X Inappropriate, inflammatory, or over-the-top.

X Divisive anti-Democratic rhetoric.

I read hundreds of post everyday on DU that fit in that same criteria. If speaking the truth in insulting or offensive, to bad. I said something that needed said, and I offer no apologies. I've earned that right.

Thanks for posting. Your thread is on the Greatest Page now. Lots of people support your right to post your opinion. Those who don't can safely be ignored. DUers have spoken by recommending your original post.

:eyes:

At least that's my understanding. If you alert on the post, the moderators will decide its fate. I don't believe that's your job.

:eyes:

:eyes:

Checked teh same things.

Please ignore those who are trying to tell you that your post is unwelcome or unnecessary. You have as much business writing your opinion as they do. Never let anyone inhibit you from stating your opinion. It's especially important for infrequent posters to make their opinions known. We see a lot of the same names over and over again, so hearing a new voice (to me) is always welcome.

That we happen to agree isn't relevant. Thanks for posting your opinion! Recommended.

:patriot:

(But I don't turn 46 for a few more weeks.)

:P

This poster has an opinion. If you have comments about that opinion, please make them. Don't just post a crappy title.

It's really tiresome.

"get over yourself"

:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:

The op is entitled to their opinion and so am I.

Man, you really do think you are some kind of authority figure here don't you?

Never was, never want to be. I'm just another DUer, posting on DU.

Just an old man, posting on DU.

:shrug:

The rule enforcers.

Title crappy enough. For you?

Yes, one that 4,000 people can hear!

thread? This is not about me. It's about this thread. What's your point?

Could've fooled anyone reading this thread.

No one a runny shit about your lame thread herding my man.

"No one givesa runny shit about your lame thread herding, my man."?

If so, that's OK. I'll post anyhow.

Thanks for posting

All it does is reward the other team.

My only criticism would be not moving quick enough on issues, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that the opposing forces are stronger than you or I may realize. I don't see us losing ground anywhere.

Oh, you were serious.


hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

:silly:

Just saying.

There's a big difference between simply criticizing and using criticism to divide Democrats.

The endless internal bickering is going to ensure that the GOP retakes Congress.

Democrats are like little yippy dogs fighting over a bone ... they run in circles, bark and bark, and get exhausted.

Then the GOP Dobermans walk up and take the bone.

:kick: and REC'D!!!

But what we need to motivate the base is not a post as well said as yours - we need to see the WH accomplish goals that we believe in such as raising taxes on the ultra-rich.

There are a lot of us out here who support the President & not just on DU. More than a few are quite capable to see the difference between the progressiveness of Pres Obama & the derelict gwbush.

Really not much use addressing those who would use rw propaganda pieces from the Moonie times to further their agenda, though.

...but I will certainly not refrain from criticizing his actions and/or policies when I do not agree with them.

It's all part of that "engaged citizen" thing.

Would that be okay with you? (rhetorical question)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Well done. :thumbsup:

One more.

The "Extreme Left" are Communists, not Michael Moore, or The Nation, or me, or YOY, or Touchdown. Or DK, or anyone else.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - President Theodore Roosevelt



just saying.

:thumbsup:

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:rofl:

just for your post!

:sarcasm:

Don't you? Losing a little bit of the message discipline, I see.

for nobody else.

:hi:

He hasn't "accomplishedmore than could have been hoped for". What he has done is accomplish less than actually was hoped for. Single payer is an easy one to pick as an example - that is what was hoped for, he accomplished less. It was hoped he would bring the war in Iraq to an end, not leave 50,000 troops there - that is less than what was hoped for. There are a whole host of Bush policies I had hoped he would end, he has ended far less of them than I had hoped. So get it straight, the man does not walk on water and to be quite honest about it I don't see him out front on any issue. He waits until the battles are won to decided which side he is on, and its always short of the good that could have come out of every confrontation - always.

Like, for instance, those who forget the damage the DLC did to this party in the 1990s.

Or those who forget what happened to every other country which ever invaded Afghanistan.

Or those who forget that deregulating banks FUCKED THIS COUNTRY every time it was done, and yet they want to do it again. Or put a band aid on it, by creating a supposed "reform" agency, and turning it over to the "Federal" reserve. Which is the equivalent of holding the Nuremberg trials in South America and putting Adolf Eichmann in charge of them.

Or those who forget that NOTHING GOOD ever came from conservatism in this country. And that includes conservatism wrapped in a "New Democrat" label. Because just as "New Coke" tasted like watered down Pepsi, "New Democrat"/DLC is nothing but watered down Republican.

"If you honestly believe that he has been a disapointment (sic) or a failure or that a repub president would be better then I suggest you leave the democratic party and join with the republicans because it is obvious by alot of post on DU that that is where you belong."

Bullshit^^^.

Those who are unhappy with the president are unhappy with him because he leads too far to the right. To suggest that such persons should vote GOP because that's where they really want to be anyway is both illogical and ludricrous.

I think it's reasonable to conclude that anyone who posts "you should vote Republican" isn't really in favor of Democrats.

the rest not so much. Not a single Democrat any where desires a repub majority or repub President. Dance with the one who brung you.

:silly:

Problem is, it stopped working when they turned 5.

Why do you hate James Cameron?!

:cry:

:silly:

at how easily people are to manipulate.

Disruption of a movement is a very old trick, and for some reason it is happening here. I am not sure what is happening but I feel manipulated.

Yes let us win the election in the Fall.

:hi:

I'm not impressed.

"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone



Unrec.

who are showing frustration on this forum are not talking the same way to the general public. I am thinking that this is a good place to vent. I am very disappointed in Obama and the Dem controlled Congress, but I use this site to keep my sanity.

are you talking about? The aclu just released a report about Obama continuing the most heinous of w policies.