Howard Dean, it is simple, just apologize and quit trying to justify what you said!

When I saw he was going to be on Olbermann tonight I thought he would say "I misspoke, here is what I really meant." Instead, he defended it and brought up polls saying 65% of people were against it. I don't care if 99% of people are against it, it is wrong. Why do people quote polls on civil right issues. I am sure at one point 90% of america was for slavery. Who gives a crap?

Howard, I thought you would be smart enough to just say "I screwed up".

Dean's struggling with Islam. He said Islam is "in the 12th century" in Iran and some other Muslim countries."

Oops! In the 12th century, the Muslim nations were the most advanced in he world, most tolerant, and wealthiest.
12th century Iran experienced a period of major advances in art, literature, and architecture. It was a
period of prosperity and openness.

Dean just mouthed off without knowing what he was talking about. We all do that on occasion but he did it
high profile, in a religious remark, and was flat out wrong.

OOps! just one of my "occasions"!

Please forgive me, kind Sir.

:hi:

The Prince is always right;)

Well, someone the other day did imply that I was sent here by Karl Rove...but truly, the Prince is never Right.

The Prince is correct even when he's not (unlike the admirable but imperfect Dean).

But we--the titled--generally maintain interests unsavory on the whole.

some of the people from both sides together and discuss just what each one is looking for. "Not the crazies who are using this issue for purely political purposes, but the Imam & a few of his associates & some of the people who are maybe widows & widowers of the people who were killed in the twin tower attacks!" There is so uch BS out there about this building I doubt anyone really knows what is true anymore.

I think Howard is right. He said they have the RIGHT to build there. Wouldn't it be beter for the two sides to get together and come to a peacable agreement instead of everyone screaming what they think?

I didn''t realize just what this building was like until I saw pics on TV the other day. I'm positive many people think what they want to build is going to be one of those bi fancy muslim temples, and they think it's going to be right across the street OR NEXT DOOR to where the twin towers were.

If yu ever lived in or near a big city, you'd realize just how insignificant this building really is, and I happen to agree with theImam who said his intent is to expose Americans to just what Islam is and destroy so many of the false beliefs that the Muslim religion is fullof hate. That's the reason mny people hate or at the least mistrust anyone who is from a culture foreign to them. Until I worked with many Mexican people I admt my only exposure to them was those arrested for a crime & had their picture on TV. I used to be afraid of all drug dealers until I met a very nice young lady who was in jail but released during the day to go to her job but had to return to jail at night. It really does require exosure to people we don't know anything about tocreate an atmosphere of acceptance & even frendships.

I think Howard is right in his approach to this.

He just doesn't know history which, in this case, shows that there was an extended period of time, centuries, when the tables were turned, when Europe was less tolerant, less advanced, and less successful than nations that were predominantly Muslim. The only exception to this in Europe was the Republic of Venice which made a shit load out of trade between the Arab states and Europe.

that a minority community "PROVE they are sincere, real Americans" by their willingness to capitulate to a bigoted, unthinking, powerful, dominant culture-identified mob. As for this "9/11 families" ploy, the project HAS ALREADY MET with some of them and gained their support. Another misinformed Dean gaffe. He's been UNINFORMED since he opened his piehole on the "issue."

The demonization of Muslims began when I was a child. Anybody else a regular "Popeye" watcher? Something was going on in Iran back then, hmmmm... what was that again? It's been downhill ever since what with American foreign policy and all. MANY GROUND ZEROS have been created near mosques. Muslims around the world have ample reason to view the U.S. with suspicion.
And now THIS. :eyes:

BUT THESE ARE AMERICANS. How someone "feels" about their presence based on some free-association b.s. is that someone's issue. To demand a persecuted minority "consider the sensitivity" of the dominant culture JUST. BOGGLES. MY. MIND. And if they have the unmitigated gall to barge on ahead and exercise their constitution rights without bowing and scuffing that'll tell us all we need to know about THEM. THEY'RE the ones provoking US. THAT IS WHAT DR.DEAN STOOD ON!

Yeah, just like I provoked the hell out of Ms. Houston who had many "sensitivities" about seeing my little black face in HER clasroom.

Dean dug his heels in on Countdown. It was painful to watch. As I've said before it was like hearing the n-bomb drop from a white friend's mouth, then them trying to deny and explain what they said while stepping into a pile of dogshit in the process. But that's my feeling. And my problem.

Do you honestly think someone in Manhattan cares what some schmoe in Watertown thinks?

They have the same right as any other religion to put their place of worship there.

This whole "hallowed" ground stuff is horse puckey - nothing but an excuse for religious bigotry.
Do you have any idea what sort of stuff is already around there?

...according to the same poll.

And another poll shows 53% support in Manhattan:

August 2010 Marist Poll of Registered NYC Voters
http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/misc/nycpolls/c100728/Bloomberg_RV/Construction_of_Mosque_Near_World_Trade_Center_Site.htm

in support and if you polled the Harlem section of Manhattan they would be opposed -- given the poll showed black NYC residents opposed to it. If you are going to use polls to support a position how far down in the structure do you go? Down to the five block area around it? Is this an exclusively Manhattan issue?

probably hoping in vain that in the short term it will be politically helpful - while in the long term accepting bigotry grants legitimacy to the agents of intolerance and pushes the range of bigoted discourse even farther to the right.

Bigotry will never be defeated by accepting its excuses - it is defeated by confronting it and denouncing it like Sen. Franken did:

Franken calls opposition to mosque "one of the most disgraceful things that I’ve heard":

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4510142

or as Mayor Michael Bloomberg put it:

Mayor Michael Bloomberg: 'Sad Day For America' If Ground Zero Mosque Plan Is Killed

NEW YORK — New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg says it would be "a sad day for America" if opponents successfully kill plans for a mosque proposed near the World Trade Center site.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/16/bloomberg-sad-day-for-ame_n_683692.html

....................

"Let us not forget that Muslims were among those murdered on 9/11 and that our Muslim neighbors grieved with us as New Yorkers and as Americans. We would betray our values – and play into our enemies' hands – if we were to treat Muslims differently than anyone else. In fact, to cave to popular sentiment would be to hand a victory to the terrorists – and we should not stand for that." Mayor Michael Bloomberg

.

.

But not much of an excuse.

it would've been easy to make an "I wash short on facts and shot my mouth off, which I shouldn't have done." apology.
Once someone defends their statement for a while it's pretty hard to pull one of those off.